January BLOOD ANGELS TACTICAL SEMINAR - veterans and new players please attend! :-)
 BloodAngelBrotherEdward.
       huff..puff...huff... Do you expect everyone to read this!?! (NT) killerrhurtz (1/20/2002 22:15). 
           hee hee :-) Just post your list & tactics here then :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (1/20/2002
 22:26). 
               RE: hee hee :-) Just post your list & tactics here then :-) bodycount (1/21/2002 6:30). 
               RE: hee hee :-) Just post your list & tactics here then :-) HarkonGreywolf (1/22/2002 18:58). 
           Nice thread... Kage (1/20/2002 23:46). 
               a question citrusmidget (1/21/2002 0:12). 
                   RE: a question Kage (1/21/2002 2:22). 
           Comments and Army jdelrio (1/24/2002 8:29). 
       O ye of little faith! InquisitorDalloren (1/20/2002 22:20). 
       good tips thanasis (1/20/2002 23:05). 
       LOL ok Brotheredward, you are just too much :) squirgle (1/21/2002 0:54). 
           RE: LOL ok Brotheredward, you are just too much :) Romanov (1/21/2002 2:51). 
               :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (1/23/2002 10:13). 
           that would be a dry Texas humor - but very similar :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (1/21/2002
 20:34). 
       Notes GawaintheStout (1/21/2002 3:42). 
       What about Seth? GamePunk26 (1/21/2002 3:51). 
           RE: What about Seth? Kage (1/21/2002 5:25). 
       How to beat the Eldar with an Assault army.(extremely long, but helpful) Disturbed (1/21/2002
 7:40). 
       Not exactly DA Tactics...but.... SirHamish (1/21/2002 7:55). 
       Wooo, thats the good stuff weaselboy (1/21/2002 9:47). 
           heya weaselboy... BloodAngelBrotherEdward (1/21/2002 9:54). 
               RE: heya weaselboy... weaselboy (1/21/2002 11:22). 
       humakt's BT vs BA Battle report BloodAngelBrotherEdward (1/21/2002 10:32). 
       Heres my army list + some tactics! darkelveslife (1/21/2002 12:21). 
           RE: Heres my army list + some tactics! citrusmidget (1/22/2002 19:19). 
           your army is a grand one :-) but here are some things for you to ponder :-)
 BloodAngelBrotherEdward (1/22/2002 19:52). 
               back to the front :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (1/23/2002 18:58). 
               RE: your army is a grand one :-) but here are some things for you to ponder :-)
 darkelveslife (1/23/2002 19:10). 
                   last bits of advice - hee hee hee :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (1/23/2002 19:46). 
       Countering assault-based armies egbertdfat (1/21/2002 12:30). 
       Oh no, now I have to read the replies too!! :'( ChazDaTaco (1/21/2002 15:09). 
       VETERANS - HELP HarryKeogh FIGHT IG!!! :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (1/21/2002 16:35). 
           Here's a few ideas Disturbed (1/21/2002 17:22). 
           RE: VETERANS - HELP HarryKeogh FIGHT IG!!! :-) ChaosDave (1/21/2002 17:38). 
       a very nasty Blood Angle Tactic! baronsmeg (1/21/2002 18:40). 
       Nice post! Here's my contribution! RoanortheBlackHearted (1/21/2002 18:55). 
       Blood Angels heavy support Brainsqueezeguy (1/21/2002 19:20). 
           give this a try BloodAngelBrotherEdward (1/21/2002 20:09). 
       blood angels list juiceisgood (1/21/2002 21:15). 
           tactics juiceisgood (1/21/2002 21:38). 
               *bump* (NT) Romanov (1/22/2002 0:47). 
                   RE: *bump* (NT) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (1/22/2002 18:28). 
       anything by Sawyer leathernecks (1/22/2002 1:12). 
       thought for the day: Sanguinary High Priest with a pair of lightning claws/term honors/iron halo
 :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (1/22/2002 9:45). 
       Victory against the Imperial Guard. HarryKeogh (1/22/2002 14:06). 
           WHOOHOO!! :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (1/22/2002 14:47). 
       could someone please look at my army list? (NT) darkelveslife (1/22/2002 18:43). 
       PLEASE REVIEW BloodAngelsPlaya's BA ARMY :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (1/22/2002 18:48). 
           my take on things :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (1/22/2002 18:55). 
           TOO MANY HQ UNITS!!1111 HellCow (1/22/2002 21:10). 
       A Question Phsycoticspacemarine (1/22/2002 20:58). 
           Someone come help us talk about dreadnoughts BloodAngelBrotherEdward (1/23/2002 4:59).
               Furioso Dreadnought smallgraystone (1/23/2002 11:35). 
                   RE: Furioso Dreadnought Raphaelus (1/23/2002 19:30). 
                       thank you! :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (1/23/2002 22:53). 
                           balance Raphaelus (1/24/2002 18:06). 
                               Very well said :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (1/24/2002 18:19). 
       Blood Angels are the best.... harrykeogh (1/23/2002 22:21). 
           Blood Angel Strike Force Romanov (1/23/2002 23:51). 
       tactica bloodangel Ahrha (1/24/2002 0:57). 
       Mobile force, what do you guys think??? SirServo (1/24/2002 2:40). 
           hey there! BloodAngelBrotherEdward (1/24/2002 9:57). 
       Death company naughtyspacemarine (1/24/2002 11:23). 
           just one suggestion, and a few comments :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (1/24/2002 12:21). 
               A thought naughtyspacemarine (1/24/2002 12:30). 
                   DOH! I meant to say that :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (1/24/2002 12:54). 
                       edward please check my half of an 8000 pt game marshallrommel (1/24/2002 13:51). 
                           4000pt battle eh? WONDERFUL! :-) now let's see.... BloodAngelBrotherEdward
 (1/24/2002 16:51). 
       For What it's Worth.... GamePunk26 (1/24/2002 13:30). 
       Thanks Blood Angels ironork (1/24/2002 14:15). 
           :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (1/24/2002 16:58). 
               Best well balanced Blood Angels Tactic for tournaments Romanov (1/25/2002 0:17). 
                   seasons change - so no one tactic will address it all... BloodAngelBrotherEdward
 (1/25/2002 1:41). 
                   RE: Best well balanced Blood Angels Tactic for tournaments Raphaelus (1/25/2002
 1:53). 
                       "You want me to teleport where?" - Sanguinius Comedy hour - hahahahaha!!! :-)
 BloodAngelBrotherEdward (1/25/2002 9:25). 
               What a wonderful Idea, you must inform us immediately when it is finished (NT) SirServo
 (1/25/2002 1:25). 
       Updated Army list...Please review SirServo (1/25/2002 1:50). 
           either of your lists will do fine - I was trying to say it's how you use them :-)
 BloodAngelBrotherEdward (1/25/2002 9:11). 
       No Subject gameboydb (1/25/2002 3:05). 
       my "maybe" 1500pts pepper (1/25/2002 7:28). 
       No Subject mempheston (1/25/2002 7:36). 
           ain't big enough, ya got pics? :-) (NT) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (1/25/2002 9:01). 
       Some thoughts... Glaze (1/25/2002 8:35). 
       Dreadnoughts billypig (1/25/2002 9:35). 
 
 

  January BLOOD ANGELS TACTICAL SEMINAR - veterans and new players please attend! :-) . (84
 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 1/20/2002 22:00 (1/25/2002 9:35) 
 January 2002 Blood Angels Tactical Seminar 

 Greetings my battle brothers!

 Firstly - if you don't feel like reading all this (it is a lot I admit!) then feel free to post your fave
 1500pt Blood Angels list and a few notes about your tactics (what you DO with your army is
 important too!) then feel free to return to your duties :-) Now on with the show!

 Welcome to what I hope will be a really productive Blood Angels Tactical Seminar! I've seen
 several posts lately from new Blood Angels players, so I thought it would be a fine time to
 send out the call to all of our fellow Blood Angels players to hear their thoughts on tactics and
 army lists! I am hopeful that we will hear from many veteran gamers, as well as new players
 about what they have used, what has worked for them, and most especially I hope the new
 players will ask questions about what areas have been difficult for them. I also invite players
 from other armies to comment on what aspects of the Blood Angels challenge them, and how
 they fight Blood Angels :-)

 Below are some of my observations about 40k, with special focus on assault armies, the
 challenges they face - and how we may overcome them. Naturally there is a focus on Blood
 Angels tactics :-) I will share with you my observations of the game - of the different general
 army types, the ways to conduct a coordinated assault in general, and I will then get into the
 specifics which apply only to Blood Angels armies. I hope that you will honor the chapter by
 adding your own insights to this thread to add to the knowledge that we gather here! Let the
 first Blood Angels Tactical Seminar of 2002 begin!

 Part I. An overview of the 40k battlefield.

 Well let's see if we can punch out something useful here... hhhmmm.... On an interesting note I
 am unsure of the value of applying many real world tactics to this game - the rules of 40k
 make it a unique environment, especially small unit tactics - but larger strategems are fine. May
 I suggest perusing the art of war, the translation with the black cover with the big red circle on
 the front (I'd be nice and find the translators name for you but it's way too late/early her, and
 frankly I just don't feel like getting up!) :-) but that's the best of the translations I've read :-)
 The art of War discusses conflict in general, and gives you a working vocabulary with which
 you can assess your threats, and options as to how you can deal with them - it is a mandatory,
 fundamental base of knowledge that one really must have.

 Anywho - on to the show. 40k tactica in a nutshell.

 There are three kinds of armies, only three kinds ever - anywhere so listen up.

 1) shooty - Tau and IG lean toward this - if they choose to go full shooty then you're looking
 down the barrel of a truly extreme army that you can only defeat by avoiding it's fire, and
 hitting them with powerful assaults, for these two armies are the ultimate in shooting armies.

 2) assault - Black Templars, Blood Angels, Tyranids, Orks lean towards this. If any of these
 armies choose to fully embrace their assault capability then you really need to stay the heck
 away from the army completely - destroy it with shooting. You will lose if you engage it in h2h
 (though a very clever commander might make use of small ascrificialy units to lure the assault
 army into a bad position where they may be vulnerable to more fire!). Full assault armies (and
 the frequent failure of many new players to recognize them in the field) are the biggest single
 reason that many people feel the assault armies are unfairly powerful in general. I do not share
 this view, I feel it's just that many don't know how to properly counter such a beast -
 especially in small gametables.

 3) blended armies - armies which carry a blend of shoot and assault. Now all of the armies
 I've mentioned so far can do this (and many of their players will say that one should have a
 "balanced" army. However many of the 40k armies have lists which truly include a bit of both
 sides. I think these are both the most capable armies in 40k, and also the most difficult to
 master. These armies include Codex Marines, Codex Eldar, Dark Eldar (though many will call
 them shooty I will call them a blend), and others. Sometimes you'll have a player field a blend
 army yet they've kitted it out with an extreme army selection - in that case you address it as an
 extreme army and go on with the game. However many blended army types will try to use
 both elements of their "perfectly" balanced force (notice mild mocking tone here) to destroy
 you - well that's nice in theory but most armchair generals will have a hard time executing this
 in 40k. When you encounter one of these SunTzu wannabes just watch for their mistake - if
 you're an assault army then stick to your main plan and stay behind cover - watch for the lead
 units to make themselves vulnerable to an assault and then jump on in, you'll likely overwhelm
 them (congratulations, you've just broken part of their perfect force!). If you're more of a
 shooty variant then be patient and watch your lanes of fire, for the blended army may try to
 use vehicles for an assault fo some sort so be ready to blast them into the next world as soon
 as they come out - set up your camp and let them come to you.

 Blended armies are truly the most difficult to discuss tactically because you have such a wide
 range of capability - some of the blends are just plain goofy, yet the other end of this category
 are truly some of the very best armies in the game, commanded by the most experienced
 players (one of these days I want to be a master of the blended army - I'm shooting for codex
 marines or Eldar) :-)

 Anywho - that addresses the main styles of armies - do not be fooled, there are no more than
 these three! :-)

 Now on with the show.

 I will give away big big secrets now - ready? :-)

 Assault army keys to success. You're going to want to slap me when you read this, but it's the
 truth. STAY BEHIND COVER. No I friggin mean it - STAY BEHIND COVER. As an
 assault army your only glaring weakness is that the enemy will degrade your capability through
 firing before you hit their lines - happily this is fairly easily addressed in 40k through
 REMAINING BEHIND COVER (do you see a theme here yet?). Now it isn't always
 possible to do this that's true, so watch the terrain, watch your enemy - see where they will be
 able to shoot you in the next turn - ideally see where they will be able to shoot your in about
 three turns! Be awae of where your casualties will be - and do what you can to minimize the
 impact (make wierd formations that hide people behind bushes - or use one of your bigger
 units as a screen (though you have to be careful of the impact of large template weapons when
 mobbing people up behind cover like this! :-) Anywho - stay behind cover - move up as
 quickly as possible toward the enemy positions - and spring your assault on the enemy in one
 giant action. Stay behind cover until the moment of assault and then provide the enemy with
 more targets than they can address - this will ensure that some of your units survive unscathed
 - if you are really clever you can stick all of your units into assault at once, or secondarily you
 can stick one into assault and use the melee (which blocks line of sight mind you) to act as a
 screen protecting the rest of your units. Is anyone else out there now seeing the value of taking
 several small squads of SM scouts for early assaults? but I digress :-) Now if you are an
 assault army and have equipped your lead assault units well you should sweep through most
 other armies fairly well - who cares if they have a couple of units that can resist you you can
 decimate most of their army so get on with it! :-) Those are the keys to a happy world for
 assault armies.

 Shooty armies - much simpler in fact (though truly a sight if done by a master). Their job is to
 get to a good firing position, and pester the enemy whenever they present themselves - isn't
 this a great job? Go there - shoot what you can! :-) Now a clever shooty general will be
 watchful for the transports of a mobile army - they'll do all they can to make a mobile army
 walk (as well they should!). A clever shooty general will also likely take a modest contingent
 of h2h troops to absorb an enemy charge before it reaches the core of the shooty army
 position. This is extremely important - especially when facing another extreme army - most
 especially assault. Do what you can to render the assault army immobile - then make sure
 your screening troops are in position to accept their charge when it comes (for it is coming!)
 and do what you can with the remainder of your shooty units to pull back so that you can fire
 on the victor of the melee (likely the enemy assault troops) so that you can fire on them again
 as they sweeping advance - if you can devote enough resources to this you may well utterly
 wipe out the remaining enemy assault troops as they sweep.

 Other than this defensive formation - keep an eye out for where the enemy is going and punish
 them for breaking cover. Ideally you will have some mobile shooty elements to harass them
 while they hide behind cover (flustering them to break cover ideally), or else you might have
 some actual indirect fire weapons that actually can still hit the enemy even though you do not
 have line of sight. Kill mobile shooty things first (ie falcons, vypers, speeders attack bikes,
 tanks etc) then shift down to transports to make the enemy walk - then slaughter them as they
 stand in the open (for they must in order to shoot at you!) or gun them down as they run
 toward you (as they must to hit you with an assault!).

 the most effective shooty armies are the mobile shooty (Tau and Eldar are good at this). these
 are arguably the most difficult armies to hunt down and destroy, and the reserse is that they
 are among the most capable at moving and hunting, especially in a coordinated fashion.

 Part II. Blood Angel Specific Assault Tips

 Some of these notes may apply to other assault armies as well, but today we're discussing
 Blood Angels. Battle Brothers we are weak on shooting I don't mean we can't crank out shots
 by the dozen but I mean that if we take as many assault troops as we'd normally like to we
 have very little in the way of things to kill vehicles, but before we get too upset about this we
 need to assess what our vehicle killing needs are.

 Being an assault army, our tact whether facing a shooty army or not is still to deploy behind
 cover, and advance swiftly/carefully toward the enemy in such a manner that we can launch
 several assaults at once - or at least launch the assault wave so that we stick a couple of units
 in assault and have the remainder protected by the melee acting as a screen. The enemy
 however will attempt to break up our formations with indirect fire weapons (the long range
 versions are usually not much of a danger to our power armor) but the shorter range weapons
 may be more capable). However the most serious threat is from mobile shooty elements
 which the enemy will use to try to scare us out of our cover. These will come in the form of
 Falcons, Vipers, speeders, attack bikes etc. To counter these units we need to think like a
 chess master, and take steps to punish those who swing around the corner to shoot at our
 troops. The shooty elements that an assault army needs to take with it need to be mobile -
 they need to be able to cover the advance as it moves forward - these shooty units will remain
 with the assault element as a guarantor such that any enemy which pops around the bushes to
 fire on the assault army will face a decision - they must fire on either the assault elements (and
 face deadly counter fire the next turn) or try to take out one of the shooty elements (and still
 likely die to counterfire because there are several defensive shooty elements). One of the most
 interesting units I've become fond of in this role is a devastator squad mounted in a razorback
 with twin linked lascannons - even if the vehicle is detroyed the devastator squad is still
 capable of firing, one should also have a speeder nearby with a multimelta - and your assault
 units should also have short assault weapons capable of taking our armor at short ranges
 (meltaguns). Other specifics that I've found useful in this role are predator variants, and even
 the occassional Vindicator believe it or not - the overall moral of the story though is that your
 anti armor element plays the role of the punisher - it's primary role is to protect your assault
 element's approach by punishing any enemy vehicle which moves into a firing position. If the
 enemy moves where it can kill some of your assault people who are behind cover -
 congratulations they have now made themselves visible to your anti armor units - let's give
 them a prize. Now an important thing to remember is that while this is effective for a time you
 do not have enough shooty units to maintain this for long - but that's fine, for your shooty units
 are only needed just long enough to see your assault units race forward to get stuck into
 assault (should be two turns tops, if you get into turn three and you haven't landed your assault
 yet you are either landing a masteful assault or you are in trouble - likely the latter).

 A Quick Mention about DeepStriking.

 It can be useful - but there are risks. Not the least of which is the probablility that you won't
 land right where you wanted to land! The next issue is that you will be taking fire on your next
 turn unless you can manage to deepstrike with cover between you and the bad guys (which is
 a great way to come in if you can!). If you do choose deepstrike, my advice is to try to come
 in behind scenery somewhere, then use your jumppacks to move up right behind the scenery
 to stage yourself for (ideally) a move ofer the terrain and into firing and assault - believe me a
 veteran player will see the danger so your deepstrike unit will begin affecting their plans from
 the moment it hits the board. And that right there is the key - with deepstrike you are denying
 your opponent the ability to know where all of your people are - making it harder for him to
 deploy his army appropriately. If he's conservative then he bunches up defensively and you
 know where he is (bonus for you), if he spreads out a little too much you may have a chance
 to isolate and destroy one of his units (bonus for you again).

 Now the only army that I've really found it useful to deepstrike against are mobile shooty
 Eldar - those pesky Eldar are so mobile that sometimes the only way to pin them is to
 maneuver them between two forces - one of which will begin on the table - the second half of
 the force (which needs to be a VERY powerful h2h group - maybe even 2 HQ units) would
 then deepstrike in ideally to threaten the weak Eldar flank (I say weak because many
 commanders will put a lot of their firepower toward the front to deal with the already
 positioned ground forces - but by landing this second group you have a chance to throw their
 plans into chaos. Now Eldar are (as we've discussed) quite mobile and dangerous - I've seen
 them wipe out whole squads with just one falcon and a viper - but with a little perserverance
 and some planning which includes some nice low AP assault weapons for your assault squads
 you may be able to put some pressure on your mobile shooty opponent :-)

 Blood Angels Assault units.

 There are about three main ways to do this

 1) direct assault - having gotten close enough to the enemy by staying behind cover (as we
 discussed earlier) some of your main assault units are capable of breaking from cover and
 going directly to firing and assault (good for you!) This also covers taking a LandRaider with
 your choice of beefed up HQ, or Assault Terminators (always a fun choice!) and dumping
 them out on the doorstep of your enemy! Quite a dramatic way to go - but ever a fun one! I
 wouldn't recommend doing it in anything less than 2000pts though - but it really is a lot of fun -
 I think everyone should try it sometime :-)

 2) early assault - you have several smaller groups which can stick the enemy into an early
 assault. Space Marine scouts are good for this - or any unit which happens to be near the
 enemy for that matter (sometimes battles are crazy like that!) This sticks the enemy in place
 while your true assault unit advances (and gives a bit of line of sight blockage as well). This is
 a useful approach when you have more open terrain to cross before landing your assault
 elements into their actual assaults. The main point of this is that you should not hesitate to stick
 an enemy unit in assault if you think you can get one of your assault units into it promptly
 thereafter. Beware of a clever opponent though who may tempt you with "Sacrifice" units
 which seek to lure you into an unsupported assault advance. That trap only works if your
 assault is unsupported though - if you can engage his army with a supported assault then they
 have made the mistake - if you are too eager and let one of your lead assault units get drawn
 too far ahead of the rest of your army with sweeping advances and such then it is you who
 have made the mistake! 

 3) the screened advance. This comes in several forms, one of the most interesting is a two
 wave affair wherein a combination of jumppack troops advance followed by troops in rhinos
 (or vice versa) forcing the enemy to decide via their shooting choices which wave will land first
 :-) Some people have called this the "Rhino Rush", but whatever you call it it can be a handful
 if you can actually get it close enough to launch your assault move :-) 
 There is another more practical (if somewhat evil) approach to the screen technique however
 - the Death Company screen. Many of my armies are about one third shooty, one third mobile
 tac squads (they are very useful!) and then one third jumppack assault element comprised of
 Chapalin/DC and another second assault group. If I can get my assault element close enough
 to the enemy I can guarantee that my Chaplain/DC can lead the assault and even if they have
 to endure a turn of shooting I should (if I picked my contact unit properly) be able to get most
 of them into assault - but the main facet that I wish to discuss is that one can also use the
 Chaplain DC to SCREEN a SECOND major assault group - for the DC can soak up so
 much damage from shooting that it is unlikely even under heavy fire that all of them can be
 killed - thus protecting the second unit which should be as powerful an assault unit as you can
 field. Ideally (in my opinion) a Sanguinary High Priest with iron halo, term honors, lightning
 claws and jumppack (with honor guard with about three power weapons). If things go your
 way when you launch this double tap assault you are nearly guaranteeing that your Sanguinary
 unit will get into assault, and even if the Chaplain DC are reduced in numbers the Sanguinary
 bonuses of giving re-rolls to misses attacks in assault to units within 6 inches will be an
 enormous value to assisting the Chaplain/DC's weakened assault in the turn they charge :-)

 A final note on Blood Angels tactics - weaponry. 

 The Blood Angel army list allows a great many combinations of units which are quite capable
 in assault. Our scouts are quite effective with their infiltrating and close combat capabilities,
 our Veteran Assault Squads (unique to our chapter I believe) add special weapons
 capabilities to our assault elements - good for some forward anti vehicle and character killing
 roles, and the ability to take a flamer is also especially useful in thinning the herd as you are
 about to assault (though care must be taken to leave one enemy within 6 inches so you do not
 deny yourself the attack!) :-) Our Honor Guard offers a similar platform through which we
 may take powerful assault weapons forward into battle, again for the purpose of killing enemy
 vehicles or firing at tough enemy characters - they have the interesting option of being able to
 take as many power weapons as they wish (for a price) but in my experience more than three
 is usually a waste of resources (and three is in an extreme assault army to begin with!). 

 Our humble tactical squads are a unit which I consider to be the backbone of the army - for
 with their massed bolter fire they can provide much valuable support fire, but more importantly
 with their rhinos they can (if we use our cover well) be transported to the assault zone right
 along with our assault squads, and in my opinion the tac squads should be launched right out
 there along side the assault units to support their assaults. So what if the rhios get destroyed -
 now you have a ten many tac squad with bolters right in the thick of things able to fire
 (perhaps even rapid fire) at nearby enemy units, and they may even be able to stick another
 enemy unit in an assault (tying them up until one of our dedicated assault units breaks free long
 enough to sweep into the melee. Tac squads should (again i my opinion) be led by a veteran
 sergeant with a power weapon and a plasma pistol. the tac squad (used in their assault role)
 should have a flamer, and (generally speaking) a missile launcher (for it can be effective against
 both vehicles and personell). In conducting the assault, the tac squad needs to move forward
 with the flamer at the front, should fire the FLAMER ONLY (intentionally missing the closest
 man (or at least any one model within 6" of the veteran sergeant) in this fashion the flamer can
 do some damage - but your opponent does not get to pick and choose which models to kill
 (template weapons - gotta love'em!) so now it's time to assault - get your veteran sergeant in
 there with that power weapon - if you are luck he will kill three or four himself, if anyone else
 kills anything it's a bonus - plus by destorying the unit via assault you've just given yourself a
 free sweeping advance (or a consolidate move).

 The plasma pistols for the veteran sergeants - is something I learned the hard way - I'd have a
 tac squad up in the thick of the fighting - with enemy vehicles coming forward desperate to
 stop our advance and they'd be right near my tac guys but the tac squad wouldn't have much
 to hurt the vehicle. A plasma pistol is a nod in the direction of giving them just one more little
 weapon to use against enemy armor should the opportunity rise, and it has proven to be well
 worth the cost (and the tiny risk).

 This should about wrap up the main points I wanted to discuss (especially with newer players)
 about Blood Angel Assault tips. I hope this has given you food for thought. Please post your
 comments on this (I know it's a lot) but just feel free to write of anything tactical that comes to
 mind after having read this.

 happy gaming to all! Come share your favorite Blood Angel tactics with everyone!

 Glory to the Emperor and Sanguinius ~ Brother Edward

 PS. for those who are interested, photos and articles on modeling and tactics are also
 available on my Blood Angels website Ex Libris Mortis
 http://www.dragonrealm.com/exlibrismortis/ 
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       huff..puff...huff... Do you expect everyone to read this!?! (NT) . (7 Replies). killerrhurtz[]. 1/20/2002
 22:15 (1/24/2002 8:29) 
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           hee hee :-) Just post your list & tactics here then :-) . (2 Replies).
 BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 1/20/2002 22:26 (1/22/2002 18:58) 
 Print it out my friends, read it at your liesure and answer in a couple of days :-)

 For those who choose to read- they may find useful info :-)

 Glory to those who do their research! ~ Brother Edward 
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               RE: hee hee :-) Just post your list & tactics here then :-) . (0 Replies). bodycount[]. 1/21/2002
 6:30 (1/21/2002 6:30) 
 >> Print it out my friends, read it at your liesure and answer in a couple of days :-)

 guess I'll just do that.

 BTW, BABE - sounds ... interesting :)))

 >> Glory to those who do their research! ~ Brother Edward

 oh, definately ...

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum 
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               RE: hee hee :-) Just post your list & tactics here then :-) . (0 Replies). HarkonGreywolf[].
 1/22/2002 18:58 (1/22/2002 18:58) 
 Hi, I've been trying for two days to get my computer to post back on here but this thread
 seems to defeat it's memory and it just crashes every time!!

 Wow, what an epic!

 Excellent posts, some very good advice and tactics, not just for BA players either, a lot of
 what you said goes for most armies, including quite a lot re my SW's! Who although different
 from your mainstream marines, definitely have some aspects of similarity with BA's.
 (Wulfen/Black Rage??) Different rules, but amazing coincidences in the fluff!
 I suppose it's my mind linking Vampires and Werewolves, all the old Hammer Horrors took
 their toll as a child!

 Keep up the good work.

 Harkon Greywolf

 >> Print it out my friends, read it at your liesure and answer in a couple of days :-)
 >> 
 >> For those who choose to read- they may find useful info :-)
 >> 
 >> Glory to those who do their research! ~ Brother Edward 
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           Nice thread... . (2 Replies). Kage[]. 1/20/2002 23:46 (1/21/2002 2:22) 
 I learned to play in a local weekly tournament at a hobby store. It required an entry fee, and
 there was a cash prize for winning. These was not the casual 'let's get together and have a
 game' type of playing. People were there to win. Having a good time, while still important,
 was secondary. In this atmosphere, there was also no such thing as cheesy, beardy, cheap,
 and no fluff mongering allowed(saying things like 'no Eldar army would EVER do that!'). If it
 was a legal list from the appropriate codex... nothing was said, end of story. 

 Having said that, let me say that it was interesting atmosphere in which to learn how to play.
 When you get mercilessly stomped into the floor your first couple of tournaments, you learn...
 quickly. The following are some of the things I learned, which I hope may help new Blood
 Angel players and maybe some veterans as well. 

 1) Characters. Like a lot of new players, I also thought that the key to winning a game was to
 dump as much wargear on my HQ units as possible, and completely deck out their Honor
 Guard with power swords, etc. I quickly found out these units are magnets for enemy fire, and
 are usually the first units to be killed... especially in a game where victory points matter. I
 rarely got them into close combat(where they would excel), and they NEVER killed as many
 points as they were worth. The moral? Don't do it. I haven't ever taken an honor guard since
 those first couple of tournaments. My Chaplain and High Priest(the two HQ units I -always-
 take), are usually given bolt pistols, meltabombs, and the High Priest gets a jump pack and a
 power sword. And that's it. No master crafted weapons, no artificer armor, if I have left over
 points I have occasionally given my Chaplain Terminator honors. The fact is, numbers win.
 The more models you can field on the table, the better the chance of you winning is. 

 2) Elites. As Brother Edward mentioned, the Veteran Assault squad is a unit unique to the
 Blood Angels. And a fine unit they are, too. With incredible mobility(too bad you don't have
 the option of removing the jump packs though...), and the ability to carry two assault
 weapons, this a unit that should be in just about every BA army 1500 points or over. Now, in
 the tournaments I played in there were more Eldar armies than anything, with Orks next, then
 Marines(all types), and small amounts of the rest of them. In this 3 toughness target-rich
 environment, I always gave my Vet Asst squad 2 flamers. But if you know what typr of army
 you will be facing(as in a single game), then you can tailor their weaponry to your needs. Two
 meltas for anti-tank(or Wraithlord), two plasmaguns for anti-marine, two flamers for low
 toughness armies(Eldar, Guard, Tau, etc). I always ran this unit close to my Chaplain/Death
 Company to help keep them alive, and also to support my Chaplain/Death Company with
 some heavy hitting firepower if needed. I would suggest taking at least 7 in a squad, to help
 keep the assault weapons in the unit(from going Death Company, or enemy firing). 

 The Furioso... depending on who you ask, it's either really good, or really bad. I say that if
 you know how to use it, it's -awesome-. It's an extremely close-range unit, and care must be
 taken to keep it alive until it can get into assault range. Extra armor and smoke launcher are a
 low-cost method to help, and as Brother Edward mentioned: KEEP IT IN COVER. With 4
 attacks at S 10, I 5 on the charge... it's nasty. Something would need a minimum strength of 6
 to hurt it in close combat(unless they got around to it's back). And against vehicles... it throws
 around like they were toy cars... especially if the vehicle it's attacking didn't move the previous
 turn... good lord, the horror. So, keep it safe, and it will be a great unit for you.

 Terminators... one of the units I'm hesitant to take, because they're expensive, and I always
 seem to lose quite a few of them to Death Company. If you are going to take them, and plan
 on dep striking... shell out the 5 points for someone to have a teleport homer. If you've ever
 had a unit deep strike off the board, or land within an inch of enemy unit... you'll FIND room
 in your army for 5 measly points. 

 3) Troops. The backbone of any army. Marine tac squads are one of -the- most flexible
 normal troop choices in the game. The boltgun is one of the best troop-standard weapons in
 the game(it was -the- best, until the Tau showed up), they have good strength, toughness, and
 an awesome armor save. With the ability to carry an assault and a heavy weapon, these units
 can be counted on to suit just about any need. As I mentioned earlier, numbers are what win
 games, and in my experience, the armies that take 2 troop choices with the minimum amount
 of troops in them, and bulk up on heavy support, elite, and fast attack don't win many games. 

 I usually took 6-man squads to fit in more assualt/heavy weapons, plus it gave my opponent
 more units to split his fire on. The tables at the store I played the tournaments in were
 notoriously packed with terrain, giving any vehicles that weren't skimmers a headache(Dark
 Eldar armies had a field day, lemme tell ya), so I didn't take too many rhinos or razorbacks.
 But you should if the table allows a decent amount of movement at all. For a good all-around
 outfitting, I would suggest a plasma gun and a missile. The plasmagun, while sometimes risky,
 has the potential to shoot more often or further than a meltagun, and the missile is a good
 multi-purpose weapon. 

 Blood Angels scouts quickly became popular with me. With the ability to infiltrate and move
 through cover(as there was a lot of!), and coming equipped with close combat weapons, they
 were in every single army list I had. I would rarely equip them with sniper rifles or a heavy
 weapon as they -always- seemed to rage forward. I painted mine in camouflage to blend in
 with the trees which littered every table... and on several occasions, my opponent would
 overlook them and forget about them. ; )

 4) Fast Attack. Personally, I don't much care for bikes, attack bikes, and I downright HATE
 Land Speeders. I personally think that all of them are way overpriced for what you get.
 Especially the Land Speeder. Paying that many points to have it get shot down by
 bolt/shuriken fire is really aggrivating. The only Fast Attack units I ever take with my Blood
 Angels are *surprise!* assault squads. 'Nuff said. 

 5) Heavy Support. Notice that the normal Dreadnought has been moved from an Elite choice
 to Heavy Support in the BA list. Which, yes, means that you can potentially field 6
 Dreadnoughts. But fair warning if you try to do this... you will be called cheesy/beardy/cheap,
 and the fluffmongers will lay into you something fierce. As I said... if it's legal choices from the
 codex, I got no problem with it. Other people... well...

 Anyway... normal Dreads are a great way to get some -stable- heavy weapons fire. Even if
 they rage forward, they can still fire two of their weapons. I suggest t/l lascannons and a
 missile launcher for good long range punch. A couple of these guys are also good companions
 for a Furioso, giving him some covering fire while he closes for the assault. As with all
 vehicles, I suggest smoke launchers and extra armor. 

 The Baal Predator is fun, but one of those units which must be used properly to be
 effective(read: not wasting your points). Given heavy bolter sponsons and a pintle storm
 bolter, this thing can lay down a withering hail of fire... 11 dice in all, with re-rolls for the
 assault cannon. Best suited against lower toughness infantry(eldar guardians, I-Guard, Tau,
 etc). 

 Devastators... don't be afraid to take them, but I suggest having two units, in case one rages.
 If both get to shoot, so much the better. 

 6) Blood Angels wargear. The Grail is great, especially for a Chaplain/Death Company unit,
 but it's a bit pricey. The Death Mask is kinda neat if you got 10 points purning a hole in your
 pocket(so to speak). The Shroud and Exsanguinator... never use 'em, as I never take an
 Honor Guard. 

 7) Death Company. Yes, they are a good unit and can be tough to kill. No, they are not the
 invincible killing machines, destroying entire armies by themselves, that people make them out
 to be. I suggest always giving them jump packs, as this makes them more maneuverable, and
 in the higher point games, if you roll up more than 10 DC... they can't use the free Rhino.

 Now... your opponent will do one of two things with your Death Company... ignore them, or
 try his hardest to wipe them out. I've rarely seen any other response to the unit. If he ignores
 them, show him why that's a very bad idea. If he tries his hardest to kill them, lead him on a
 wild goose chase. Make him follow your DC around the board while the rest of your army
 shoots/assaults him to pieces. In quite a few games, the way I utilized my Death Company and
 my opponents reaction to the them is what won me the game. 

 I always take a Chaplain and a High Priest for my 2 HQ choices. Not only is the Chaplain
 REALLY good in close combat, he comes with a power weapon and invulnerable save. The
 High Priest always accompanies the Chaplain/Death Company unit, because re-rolling all
 those vitally important Str 5, Ini 5 attacks is EASILY worth his points cost. Give him a bolt
 pistol and a power weapon, and he ain't too shabby in close combat himself. 

 If I can dig up my notebook, I'll put up an army list or two at a later time.

 Hope some of this helps,
 - Brother-Chaplain Kage, Blood Angels 3rd Company. 

 BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD ANGELS!!!! 
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               a question . (1 Replies). citrusmidget[]. 1/21/2002 0:12 (1/21/2002 2:22) 
 i was wondering. you have a high priest as an individual charachter and a vet. assult squad. is
 this that different from having a high priest with an honor guard if the honor guard have no
 upgrades? Like if the honor guard have the exact same gear as the vet. assult squad, but are
 now in the same squad as the high priest. Is this a big difference? Does it change the strategy
 of the army? 
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                   RE: a question . (0 Replies). Kage[]. 1/21/2002 2:22 (1/21/2002 2:22) 
 The reason I don't do this is, is to make sure my Death Company get the benefit of the High
 Priest... his special ability only affects -models- within 6" of him, not entire units. Plus, I like to
 have my Veteran Assault squad(s) be a free moving, and not tied to the High Priest. I use
 them(singular and plural) to fill in where they can best help out. Being highly mobile and having
 the assault weapons makes them great gap-fillers or supporters for other units... leading back
 to my statement that the core of your army should be troop units, with the others choices in a
 supporting role. 
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           Comments and Army . (0 Replies). jdelrio[jmdelrio1@hotmail.com]. 1/24/2002 8:29 (1/24/2002 8:29) 
 I've learn alot in this post Brother Edward, you have my thanks.
 I've been tayloring my army so that I could drop the whole thing in drop pods from orbit as it
 works for the story I'm writing. Starting from there, I have, 3 tac squads, 1 death company, 1
 scouts squad (snipers), 3 Dreadnoughts w/lascannons and missle launcher and 3 furioso
 dreadnoughts (available, but never taken all in a game)and three landspeeders supporting the
 tac squads. Dreadnoughts are the only real armour allowed when deploying your entire army
 in drop pods as landspeeders while quick will go down fast and I wasn't going to shortchange
 my tac guys and send them in without armour support. I'm adding a Terminator assault squad
 (chaplain has the teleport homer) and a Veteran assault squad. Knowing that most games I've
 played are chosen at random and only a few of those let you arrive in drop pods, I'm adding a
 land raider prometheus, a whirlwind and vindicator to my army selection. 
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       O ye of little faith! . (0 Replies). InquisitorDalloren[]. 1/20/2002 22:20 (1/20/2002 22:20) 
 Brother Edward, I've yet to read the article,
 but your faith and service to the Emperor is commendable!

 Praise be to Sanguinius on this most holy day where anybody with a spare hour or two can
 read to their hearts content!

 Respectfully,
 Lord Inquisitor Jaq Dalloren.
 =][= Ordo-Hereticus. 
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       good tips . (0 Replies). thanasis[]. 1/20/2002 23:05 (1/20/2002 23:05) 
 hmm....thanks for all those tips..:D
 I tend to have this problem where my honour gaurd end up being about 40 percent of my
 army in a 1500 point game...Lets see it's a wargear problem but it looks just the same as the
 honor gaurd you mentioned except more power weapons and termi honors and they tend to
 get ahead of themselves sweeping through a couple units of whatever is in their way a turn...In
 a blood angels army they are your most valuable asset next to the rhinos and tac squads which
 just like you said use them to tie up your shooty opponent....If you have death company and
 honor gaurd assaulting the same squad together you can sweep through a lot of your
 opponents army.... And I have a vindicator and I use it but whenever I put it on the table top I
 am super careful to keep it behind cover until I can bring it close enough and wouldn't you
 know it's hit by all the heavy weapons on the table that turn and somehow seems to always
 always always be immobilised just a few inches too far too shoot 
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       LOL ok Brotheredward, you are just too much :) . (3 Replies). squirgle[squirgle@hotmail.com].
 1/21/2002 0:54 (1/23/2002 10:13) 
 Even though I don't play blood angels (lets hear it for IG!) I decided to read your post, mainly
 because you wrote it, and yes somehow I read the entire thing that (mainly) has nothing to do
 with me, and I've got to say, I love reading your posts. You are probably one of the best (if
 not The best) poster thats on the board (no offense to anyone, but he posts quite often too so
 he sticks out more). You have a great sense of humor. Has anyone ever said you seem to
 have a very dry english sort of humor? You kinda sound like that to me. You also seem to
 always think through what you write BEFORE you write it, unlike many people on this board.
 heh myself included evidently from this garbled message. Anywho I'll stop rambling now and
 just say keep up the good work! 
 

 "STAY BEHIND COVER (do you see a theme here yet?)" lol
 squirgle 
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           RE: LOL ok Brotheredward, you are just too much :) . (1 Replies). Romanov[]. 1/21/2002 2:51
 (1/23/2002 10:13) 
 *bump*

 I may post something about my Blood Angel army a little later (maybes tomorrow).

 - Romanov. 
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               :-) . (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 1/23/2002 10:13 (1/23/2002 10:13) 
 and another bump to the front to help a newbie find this thing :-) 
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           that would be a dry Texas humor - but very similar :-) . (0 Replies).
 BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 1/21/2002 20:34 (1/21/2002 20:34) 
 Hey there!

 Thanks for much for your compliments, I'm happy that you enjoy my posts :-) Dry British
 sense of humor, dry Texas sense of humor - much the same I think :-) I'd like to thank my
 parents for that - they never really told me "no" as a child, they'd just say "well I wouldn't do
 that..." - so naturally I'd go do it and usually end up bleeding - one learns to listen for details in
 a household like this :-)

 So too do I hope people will notice the little things in my posts (for I want people to learn
 from my mistakes!) even if I fail to justify why I've done something there's usually a fairly good
 reason (which I've just failed/forgotten to mention). Much like my childhood filled with many
 skinned knees and such, so too has my 40k childhood been filled with many bloody defeats -
 but now I'm starting to do better - I may not really understand why it's all starting to work -
 but I'm pretty pleased with doing better :-)

 happy gaming to all ~ Brother Edward

 PS. when I start really getting into IG (maybe fall 2002) I'll be hitting you up for advice :-)
 
 
 

 >> Even though I don't play blood angels (lets hear it for IG!) I decided to read your post,
 mainly because you wrote it, and yes somehow I read the entire thing that (mainly) has nothing
 to do with me, and I've got to say, I love reading your posts. You are probably one of the
 best (if not The best) poster thats on the board (no offense to anyone, but he posts quite often
 too so he sticks out more). You have a great sense of humor. Has anyone ever said you seem
 to have a very dry english sort of humor? You kinda sound like that to me. You also seem to
 always think through what you write BEFORE you write it, unlike many people on this board.
 heh myself included evidently from this garbled message. Anywho I'll stop rambling now and
 just say keep up the good work! 
 >> 
 >> 
 >> "STAY BEHIND COVER (do you see a theme here yet?)" lol
 >> squirgle 
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       Notes . (0 Replies). GawaintheStout[]. 1/21/2002 3:42 (1/21/2002 3:42) 
 About Shooty Units:

 Realizing your fields of fire and combining them with "STAY BEHIND COVER" is as much
 an art form as it is a science. Some folks ask why I take a Leman Russ in my space wolf army
 lists (even in 1000 point games).

 The simple matter is, it's as shooty as shooty gets. And because it's heavy, I find THE spot
 where I can cover as many firing lanes as possible.

 Couple of batches of trees? Find the gap between them. That's where the rhino's coming
 through. Big LOS-blocking ruin? Place the tank where it can fire across the board down one
 (or, ideally, both) sides.

 Today I defended the honor of the Glendale GW store by trouncing the Ontario store's DA
 army. In part, because on my first flurry of shots (13 dice rolls (+2 rerolls) per shooting phase
 for the tank!) I took out 4 of the 7 bikes in his fast attack group. Then I shot the hell out of
 another tactical squad for the rest of the game. 

 When you're thinking shooty, think placement. If you have to move, think of where you can
 go, that will be in place to anticipate where the enemy will go. Remember the scene where the
 master sniper is hunting the russian snipers in Enemy at the Gates. A classic lesson in
 shooty-ness.

 As far as dumping points in wargear (another post in this thread mentions this) I agree... don't
 waste much (especially in smaller games). I tend to take about 5-11 points of wargear per
 individual character (My wolf leaders have wolf pelt (+1 on counter attack, very cool!), wolf
 tail (6+ save against psychic attack), and occasionally meltabombs. On the other hands, all I
 give my ork nobz are 'eavy armor and boss poles) Usually nothing else, unless I can for some
 reason afford it. (If I CAN afford it, my list usually needs tweaking).
 

 The point is, that against a tournament setting, you have NO IDEA what kind of force you're
 going to be up against. You have a much better chance of adapting to the challenge if you've
 spent your points on additional troops, instead of making your existing troops more expensive
 (and losses more costly when that railgun shreds them to tiny bits). 
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       What about Seth? . (1 Replies). GamePunk26[]. 1/21/2002 3:51 (1/21/2002 5:25) 
 Howdy,

 I am a Flesh Tearers player. I can see some very sound ideas in you article. I am essentially
 unable to use Veteran units in my army becuse I have to re-roll my DC rols on a 5+ w/ them.
 Nothing sucks quite as bad as losing an entire Terminator squad to the DC. I have recently
 toyed with adding bikes to my army. Anyone have any success stories with bikes to share?
 My most common opponents are Dark Eldar and Plague Marines. I don't know if any of you
 have fought Plague Marines...They will destroy you in hand to hand. They are T5 and don't
 break, ever. I have had to relegate my Beautiful assault troops to mopping up squads of 2 or
 3 leftover Plague marines because they get eaten in H-H. Any tips are appreciated. Any other
 Felsh Tearer players out there? 
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           RE: What about Seth? . (0 Replies). Kage[]. 1/21/2002 5:25 (1/21/2002 5:25) 
 Terminators and bikes are risky in a Blood Angels army. Downright waste of points in a Flesh
 Tearer army. If I remember correctly(don't have the codex handy), attack bikes are one of the
 few units that can't go DC. Might give them a try. 
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       How to beat the Eldar with an Assault army.(extremely long, but helpful) . (0 Replies). Disturbed[].
 1/21/2002 7:40 (1/21/2002 7:40) 
 Boy, I hate doing this but I think ol' Ed left some stuff out. So, being bored that I am, I'll help
 out on this one.
 THE key point to remember. My Eldar are fast, and excel at all types of warfare. You will
 NOT outmanuever them. Don't even bother trying. Having said that....
 Take a large core of troops, most of them max size. When arming them, choose heavy bolters
 over missle launchers. Why? Because I will set my models up in such a fashion that your blast
 markers won't cover many models. Besides that, heavy bolters will deny me armour saves,
 and wound on a 2+. Flamers are an ok option, but again, my models will be spaced out in
 such a way that their advantage of a template is taken away. Drop in a plasma gun or melta
 gun instead, to help with the armour that will be flying all around you.Try and whittle my
 squads down with supporting fire before you charge. My guardians may be weak, but there
 are oh so many of them. Like Ed said, STAY BEHIND COVER. You want to do this as
 much as possible. 40 shots, even from shuriken catapults, will hurt you, bad. Also remember
 that I know I'm facing marines, so there WILL be starcannons. This is just a general bit, and is
 just basically a rehash of what has been previuosly stated On to the good bits!
 Against Wraithguard- Wraithguard are the slow, steady bits of the Eldar army. They are very
 survivable, stronger than you, and have a strong, though limited range weapon. Do as much as
 possible to stay out of range of them. Shoot them with high strength AP3 or better weapons.
 They are pricey, so there most likely won't be many of them.In close combat make sure you
 have a power weapon. Make sure it is you who is charging them so you get your bonuses. If
 any remain after the first round, they will be a bit tougher due to their higher toughness and
 higher strength.If they are in a wave serpent, try to shoot it down first. Having them in your
 lines isn't fun(for you :-) If they are walking, attack them in the same manner as you would a
 squad of walking marines. Do not let your vehicles get near them if at all possible.
 Warp Spiders- Another pricey unit, and one that is vastly underestimated by Eldar and
 Non-Eldar players alike.Their weapons may not seem like they can stand against you, but that
 is not their purpose. They will perform hit and run manuevers against you. Most likely against
 your smaller units, but against larger formations if the support is there. With an Exarch that has
 surprise assault and withdraw, they can be a serious nuiscance to any of your units. They will
 have 3 attacks each, and the exarch having 4-5, leads to a large number of hits against you. If
 the exarch has powerblades, many will be unsaved. They tend to survive quite well, and may
 choose to withdraw at the end of the assault phase(assuming they have the exarch with
 withdraw), leaving the remainder of your unit in the open. If they get played right, they will
 only withdraw at the end of YOUR assault phase so they can either assault anew or fire at you
 with other units. Assault squads help out against them, chasing them around the table instead
 of being caught by them whilst moving slow.If you cannot catch them otherwise, wait until they
 are in assault with one of your other units. As I stated, they will most likely only withdraw at
 the end of your assault phase, so you can hit them with 2 units instead of 1.
 Striking Scorpions- May possibly be infiltrating, and are armed to the teeth(literally!)The
 mandiblasters will hit you first. They are only Str4, normal armour saves allowed, but any
 extra attacks against you can knock off a marine or two.If they charge you, then they will
 strike first(unless you STAYED BEHIND COVER). They have the same strength and WS as
 you, and more attacks(normally). They won't deny you your saves, but will force you to roll
 more saves than you like. The key is to charge them, and have a power weapon handy. Be
 wary, they will use the same tactics as you use with your scouts.They survive well, so don't
 expect them to be a one turn combat.
 Howling Banshees- The bane of every Marine army! They will ALWAYS hit you first in the
 first round of combat, and all have power weapons. After that it goes by initiative, and they'll
 strike first then, too. The exarch is a deadly force unto herself, with either many attacks or
 stronger ones. Also, she may be able to choose what model in the squad she wishes to fight,
 and may be able to lower thw WS of your squad by one, allowing you to be hit easier. Now,
 while they all have power weapons, their lower str means it will be harder for them to wound
 you. This helps some, as it is easier for you to wound them. Hopefully you have a power
 weapon in the squad, though the model carrying it will likely be targeted by the exarch. The
 key then to killing them is shooting. If at any point there is an opening, take it. They will be
 guarded well because of this, so mobile elements such as bikes and speeders should be used.
 If they are mounted in a wave serpent(very likely) then take it out and make them walk. Then
 they will be in the same straits as your foot troops, and hopefully help you with that shooting
 them bit.Though don't be fooled, they can fleet of foot, so it won't take as long to get there
 that way either.
 Fire Dragons- You defintely DO NOT want these guys anywhere near your lines. They will
 most likely decimate any squad within range. Some favorite targets for fire dragons are
 devastator squads and any vehicle.Tactical squads are perfectly adept at taking them out, if
 they happen to be standing still, and more than 12" away. Use heavy bolters against them, and
 plasma rifles as well. Beware the longer range they have if an exarch is with them and has a
 firepike.If you must assault them do so with assault squads. They are usually the only squads
 that have the assaulting range to do so. They will fight aboout the same as a tactical marine,
 with the exception of lower strength and toughness, and worse save( big exception, ain't it?)
 Be careful of the exarch, however. He can re-roll failed to wound rolls and ignores armour
 saves(if given the proper exarch powers) Most likely they will be transported in a wave
 serpent(with starcannons, to take down you numbers even more) so as to get to your out of
 the way vehicles and devastator squads. Again, try and shoot down that wave serpent so they
 can't get near you.(though they can fleet of foot) You'll regret it if they do.
 Dire Avengers- Now, here's an odd unit. They have short range, but hit more often than
 guardians. Try and charge them so they can't whittle you down with effective shuriken catapult
 fire. Beware the exarch! He may have a power weapon(or further, a Diresword for against
 your characters) and his abilities make him a hard opponent. He can reduce your attacks by
 one(yes, this can reduce them to 0!), and if he chooses to strike last, you will require a 6 to hit
 him! The rest of his squad will fight in much the same manner as guardian defenders, however,
 though with a better save and WS. You can either shoot or charge them, both work equally as
 well(though the exarch can make the latter a bit tougher). If shooting, I reccommend heavy
 bolters, along with the normal bolters. They can also be a hard hiiting unit in a wave serpent,
 so beware this technique.(though honestly, I don't see many Dire Avengers besides mine being
 used) Do the same as with the others, make them walk. Though they can fleet of foot, so be
 careful!
 Rangers- Rangers will be used mostly to pin your units and slow down your assault. They will
 most likely be behind cover and in difficult terrain so you can't get to them as easily. Pull one
 over on them with your own scouts, assaulting being preferable, as they are weak in this area.
 Don't try and get in a shooting match with them, as you'll most likely be pinned. Missle
 launchers, heavy bolters, multiple shot weapon is the way to go if you have to shoot at them
 though.They have great cover saves so the amount of shots fired at them is more important
 than how strong they are.The best way to beat them is assaulting them with your own scouts,
 though.
 Guardians(both Storm and Defender)- They will be in large units in order to be effective
 against you, and defender squads will probably have starcannon platforms. If storm guardians
 are used, they will probably be as a screen, with defenders set up behind them to nail you with
 massive amounts of weapons fire after you have defeated them. When this is done, it will most
 likely be small units of strome guardians with large units of defenders. The key is to hit the
 defenders first with either deepstriking units, or other fast units such as bikes and
 speeders.Then take out the smaller storm units at your leisure. This will be made a bit more
 difficult with the addition of warlocks, and nearby farseers. This won't change the way in
 which you take them out, just expect it to take a slight bit longer.(it may not, but plan for it to,
 just in case) Additionally, you may occasionally see a small storm squad outfitted with 1-2
 fusion guns and haywire grenades, and mounted in a wave serpent. They will be used in the
 same manner as the fire dragons, though with the attacks directed almost solely at
 vehicles.Take out the wave serpent then treat them like any other storm squad. Beware taking
 any vehicle too close to any storm squad. They can be quite adept at taking them out. Also
 remember that a heavy weapons platform in the guardian squad may move and fire, unlike
 your own heavy weapons troopers.
 Guardian Jetbike Squadron- These squads are highly mobile, decently tough, and have
 respectable firepower. They will usually be used to go around to the backside of your army,
 and harass anything you left behind, or shoot at your units advancing towards thier lines.
 Never underestimate them, and shoot at them with the same weapons you would use against
 other marines.Your jump pack troops and bikes will most likely be the only units that can
 charge them due to the fact that they can always move 6" during the assault phase, in any
 direction.Shooting them down is the most effective way to deal with them.
 Shining Spears- A tricky unit to use, and a very expensive one.Due to this, you won't see
 many on the table(if ever, again, I'm the only person I know that uses them) They can be used
 to go after your scout squads, due to the fact that they ignore difficult terrain(with exarch and
 appropriate power) The exarch and the lance can make them decent opponents in HtH, so
 watch for them to hit you when your units have already made contact. Otherwise, they will be
 used in much the same way as Guardian jetbikes, though if the exarch has a bright lance they
 may be used to go vehicle hunting as well. Take them out the same way as Guardian Jetbike
 squadrons, though shooting is prfereable as they like to hang out in difficult terrain.
 Vyper Jetbikes- used in much the asme way as the above 2 units, though more potent
 weapons are carried. They make excellent marine killers when armed with starcannons, and
 vehicle killers when armed with bright lances. They are usually moving fast, so shooting them is
 tough, but they can be brought down with bolters.Use any available weapon to shoot them
 down, as this is the most effective way.Assaulting them is a bit tough, so don't bother, unless
 there is no other available target. Your shooting should be effective enough. They can be
 made a bit tougher to kill using the vehicle upgrades, and beware the crystal targeting matrix,
 as you may never get to see it in your own shooting phase to fire at it.Lanspeeders are very
 effective at taking them down, as they can get to where they are. Though this is risky, as the
 vypers can take out your speeders just as easily. That is also a common use for vypers,
 denying you the ability to take some strong weapons up close to them. Shoot, shoot, and
 shoot them some more!
 Swooping Hawks- This unit will be used mostly to harass you, as they lack any real power,
 though never underestimate them. They can ALWAYS deepstrike, so you never truly know
 where they are going to hit.Grenade packs aren't too powerful, but that's another weapon
 being used against you, and that never helps. Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do
 against that, except be resiliant and hope the Emporer blesses your saves! :-) Now, once the
 swooping hawks are on the table, they will most likely be used as another hit and run unit,
 harassing you from a distance. The lasblaster is not a strong weapon, but at 24" assault 2 can
 be a pain. Thier 12" move adds to that, and keeps them out of range of your basic weapons.
 Engage them at a distance with heavy bolters and like weapons, or rush them with jump pack
 troops of your own. In close combat, beware the exarch. With a power weapon and
 sustained assault, he becomes a very formidable foe. He will keep hitting you until he misses,
 and he hits on a 3+. In HtH, treat them the same way as you would fire dragons, again being
 careful of the exarch.
 Falcon- The falcon is a very mobile, very shooty tank. Always having a pulse laser(lascannon
 with D3 shots) and one other heavy weapon, it can take down any unit/vehicle you have.
 Combine the pulse laser with a starcannon and you're looking at a highly mobile weapons
 platform that has the potential to take out 6 marines a turn, no saves allowed. AND it can
 carry 6 models inside.This is quite often a small unit of fire dragons.( and we've already
 discussed the horrors of fire dragons behind your lines) You should take them out in the same
 manner sa you take out any other tank, though they will most often be moving fast and have
 upgrades to make this no easy task. Try and get behind them if possible, as they often have
 crystal targeting matrixes.
 Fire Prsism- Armed with a prism cannon(lascannon with blast marker), this tank is the bane of
 any vehicle. Additionally, it has a 60" range so can stay out of range of your anti-tank
 weapons. You will have to move in on it to destroy it, so the best way is to use landspeeders,
 bikes and attack bikes, as they move the fastest and can get there before you suffer too many
 casualties(hopefully) Also beware small passages with a fire prism on the table. Not only can
 they leave you vulnerable to fire from other units, it will cause you to position your models
 close together, where the blast marker will work in the fire prisms favor. In addition, It can be
 used to move around your lines and hit your squads in cover from behind. This can be
 particularly devastating as most likely your models will be bunched together so they can rcieve
 the benefit of cover from the main bulk of the army. With both the falcon and fire prism, avoid
 attacking them in HtH. They are skimmers, and as such you will require a 6 to hit them. Shoot
 them down whenever possible, and know that vehicle upgrades can make this a very difficult
 task for you.
 Wraithlord- Arrrggghh!! Here it is, the wraithlord! No, it is not invulnerable. Personally, I find
 the fire prism and falcon much more effective, but I digress. Anyway, those sniper rifles you
 don't want to take? They are perfect against the wraithlord. Sure, it will get a chance to save,
 but with all ten hitting and half or so wounding, doesn't take too long to kill it. Additionally,
 Melta weapons and plasma weapons are it's bane. Hit it with your speeders, bikes, and attack
 bikes. The meltas will wound it on a 4+ and deny it a save. Bit tougher with plasma, needing a
 5+, but still denying it a save. That anti-tank devastator squad can usually take it out in a turn
 or 2 as well, though I would only use them for one turn unless there are no other targets worty
 of it's attention. If it's still alive after one round of shooying from that, hit it with the heavy and
 special weapons of a nearvy squad. Wraithlords being invulnerable is just a myth. They are
 tough, but not too bad. I reccommend not getting into close combat with them though, they do
 better there.
 Warwalkers- This unit is weak armoured and expensive, but often overlooked and seriously
 laden with firepower. A unit of three with 2 starcannons each can hurt you, and hurt you bad.
 Take them out with your long range weapons, preferably Str6 or higher, though Str4&5 will
 do if need be. Hitting them with any unit in HtH will help a bit, and they have a chance of
 destroying it even without powerfists and the like.Shooting is preferable than facing the mighty
 shooting barrage they can hand out, so I reccommend you go with that method.
 Support Weapon Batteries- One of the only static units in the eldar arsenal, it nonetheless has
 the potential to be devastating. It will cause pinning tests to be made, so is usually worth the
 cost in that regards alone. The vibro cannon can be used to hit multiple units at the same time,
 with a respectable 36" range. Multiples of them(2 or 3) cause the srtength of the hit to go up
 by one(up to a possible 6 if there are three) and cause a modifier on pinning tests( up to
 -2)They cause d6 hits on each unit they hit and an automatic glancing hit on any vehicles.
 Having a few of your units pinned can cause a big crimp in your plans, so watch out for them.
 Another possible combo is to give them shadow weavers. These use the barrage rules, and
 have a Str6 and AP-. The biggest threat from them is the pinning, which they can do from 48"
 away.(guess, though, so that should help a bit) And last, the D-cannon. Very devastating to
 any army. It's a barrage weapon, having a Str10 AP2 Heavy1 blast profile. However, and
 fortunately for anyone looking down the barrel, it only has a range of 24", and guess at that.
 As with the shadow weaver, when more than one are present they follow the rules for multiple
 barrages. The key to facing support weapons batteries is to take out the crew. Without the
 crew, the weapons are useless. They are guardians, so take them out with the same weapons
 you would use against defender squads. Though take them out with long range weapons and
 early on, so they don't get a chance to destroy/pin any of your units and slow down your
 assaults.They can be joined by a warlock as well, so will probably get a save against whatever
 you throw at them, but you should still be able to take them out.
 Dark Reapers-Yay! The last unit in the codex! On with it! Well, dark reapers are a bane to
 any army they face. Fortunately(for you, that is), they are limited to squads of five.They will be
 hitting you from far away, much the same as your devestators will be hitting thier army. The
 reaper launcher they carry, however, is very deadly. Range of 48" with Str5, AP3, Heavy 2, it
 can hit your forward squads and cripple them before they have a chance to be of much use.
 The exarch amplifies this ability, being able to either fire 3 shots, or re-roll failed to wound
 rolls(though not both in the same turn, a fact I'm sure you're happy to hear:-) The key is to
 pepper them with long range fire whilst you attack bikes or assault squads get to them. Take a
 power weapon with the assault squads to get past thier armour. With the attack bikes either
 weapon choice is suitable, and usually averages the same amount of kills against this unit.
 Don't try and outshoot them from afar! They will win that shootin match!

 Whew, that was long! :-) A couple more notes: Always assume any aspect warrior has an
 exarch that is fully outfitted. You will be much better prepared to deal with them, and it will be
 all the easier if they don't.
 For the same reason, assume all vehicles will be fully oufitted.
 When fighting against the Eldar, I find it best to assume a reverse wedge with my
 army(conversely, when using my Eldar, this makes my job more difficult) I.E. a wedge, but
 with the narrow end pointed at you. This makes it more difficult for the Eldar player to move
 around you, and therefore hinders their main adavantage. NEVER assume a standard wedge.
 This will make your units very easy to outmanuever and will put those falcons, vypers, etc.
 right behind you, where you don't want them. With the reverse wedge, move the sides
 together like the jaws of a trap(see where this is going?), decimating everything in your way,
 with the units at the tip preventing them from escaping.
 Well, as much as it pained me to do so, I did it. I hope this helps some of y'all in your future
 battles. If you made it all the way through, tell me what you think! I haven't gone into specific
 craftworlds, but I can if anyone wants. Just leave a note! There are various combos if the
 above units, but I've listed the ones you're most likely to see from someone who knows how
 to take down an assault army with his Eldar. ( I do quite well with my Eldar)
 Now, where's my crayon? 
 The Disturbed One 
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       Not exactly DA Tactics...but.... . (0 Replies). SirHamish[]. 1/21/2002 7:55 (1/21/2002 7:55) 
 Brother Edward, you are a gem.

 I have read a few of your posts recently and have been greatly inspired.
 I have been playing Vanilla Marines for years (and I mean years, since ‘87) but recently
 “Acquired” a nice Tau army.
 Have just tried them out this weekend against Chaos, with an assisting contingent of Space
 wolves on my side (3 people playing on one table).
 Not exactly Blood Angles tactics, but maybe help for defeating them, and or a look into the
 mind of some one else.
 Shooty Army = Concentrated Fire Power. 
 Pick the most likely threat target, and wipe it of the board, THEN move on to the next. Make
 the Troops get out and walk, gives you the chance to make it hurt, but DON’T GET
 DISTRACTED! Nothing worse then a wounded animal for nipping your legs out from under
 you. If even a single lone marine can get into combat with a squad of Tau, you are Gonna
 loose a lot of men, and more importantly loose the firepower of that unit for killing the other
 men charging up behind for the whole time they are engaged. AND WORSE STILL if they
 are covering your heavies, you loose their fire power as well! And that’s a disaster.
 Marines armour is their big saving grace, it doesn’t make them invulnerable, but it does make
 them a pain to kill, AP3 weapons are a must, I tool out my XV8 Crisis team with Plasma
 Riles, then when I get marines too close they can jump in, blast away and jump out again.…
 that is after all why they are called CRISIS teams.
 I completely agree with the War Gear discussion. Its tempting to take all the pretty shiny toys
 you can, but unless you really need them, or they realy make a survival difference, don’t
 bother, no matter how shiney and sparkley that big gribley 20 attack no armour save mega
 hitty sword is, you need to have a head to use it!
 Tau Photon grenades are a case in point. Ok, they may reduce the attacks coming in on the
 first round of Hand to Hand, but face it, Tau SUCK in Close Combat and NOTHING is
 gonna change that, so just accept it. 
 I take 5 squads of 12 men, and to tool them all with Grenades costs me 60 points. That’s an
 Etheral going begging, or another 6 men. And if I do my job right, NO ONE is gonna get into
 Close Combat to use the grenades, but 6 more guns is gonna make for more kills.
 And in a Shooty army, that’s the name of the game, Kill him before he gets to you.
 Conversely in a Hitty army, the reverse is just as true, STAY ALIVE or you aren’t gonna get
 a chance to hit him up close.
 My personal order of preferance for Threat Index.
 Transports, (Transports with big guns first) or another words, “make em walk”.
 Fast Attack, 
 Heavies (Seams odd, but if your opponent only has a few heavies, and you can nail them
 quickly and cleanly, it makes your Hammer Head near invulnerable, and Tank shock can
 seriously delay an assault.)
 HQ or Close Combat (Depends on which have the speed advantage really, as they can both
 be nasty in assault)
 Then troops.

 Last thought of the day…… Don’t underestimate Squiggs, they can seriously reduce your fire
 power by tying up troops…. In the same vein, Drones can seriously ruin the day of a
 Devastator Squad, just by tying them up.

 Making your opponent come at you in waves is also a must if you can pull it off. If you can
 make a unit hunker down being Pinned by a few drones, even for a turn or two, you can
 CONCENTRATE your fire on the leading assault troops, and remove their threat BEFORE
 the other units can get to you, and sometimes 6” steps between them is all you need to
 systematically wipe them out one team at a time.

 Sorry it’s a bit long and rambling, 
 For the Greater Good
 Aun’Vre Dal’yth Va’der. 
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       Wooo, thats the good stuff . (2 Replies). weaselboy[]. 1/21/2002 9:47 (1/21/2002 11:22) 
 boyo that is long, I think I'll finish it later. but please do not mock my perfectly blended Space
 Wolves just because a battle brother of yours keeps eating them alive does not mean that they
 shouldn't be feared.

 there now that that has been said I will be ready to aid in tactical discussion

 weaselboy 
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           heya weaselboy... . (1 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 1/21/2002 9:54 (1/21/2002 11:22) 
 g'morning :-) I just woke up - you were saying don't mock "my perfectly blended Space
 Wolves" was that to me? I don't recall saying anything about space wolves (in fact I love
 space wolves, and am going to make a small SW force when the new vehicles come out :-)

 ~ Brother Edward (still waking) 
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               RE: heya weaselboy... . (0 Replies). weaselboy[]. 1/21/2002 11:22 (1/21/2002 11:22) 
 >> g'morning :-) I just woke up - you were saying don't mock "my perfectly blended Space
 Wolves" was that to me? I don't recall saying anything about space wolves (in fact I love
 space wolves, and am going to make a small SW force when the new vehicles come out :-)
 >> 
 >> ~ Brother Edward (still waking)

 lol nah was making comment about your mocking tone when you discussed balanced forces
 trying to out shoot and out assualt an assault army. which I tend to try and do, only to get
 eaten by Blood Angels as I fine my self one inch to far away. oh well Praise the Emperor and
 pass the power weapons.

 I think I'll be learning much here about assaulting and dealing with Blood Angels. 

 off topic though given what you've said about tactics for 4th Edition assault rules I think we'll
 be hearing more whines about the Wolves being over powered as Grey Hunters and Blood
 claws are gonna make for deadly assault combos.

 weaselboy 
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       humakt's BT vs BA Battle report . (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 1/21/2002 10:32
 (1/21/2002 10:32) 
 BT vs BA Battle report. (Long) . (0 Replies). humakt[humakt.geo@yahoo.com]. 1/21/2002
 7:23 (1/21/2002 7:23) 

 The first game of the year for me and my mate, so I thought I would type up a battle report. I
 dont expect many replies, but at least it will releive the tedium of all these new assault rule
 posts.

 My force is BT.
 Commander in terminator armour with master crafted lightning claws and purity seal.
 Emps Champ.
 Dreadnought with lascannon and powerfist/storm bolter, smoke and extra armour.
 Assault terminators with 3 lightning claws and 2 thunder hammers.
 Tactical squad 1, 6 marines (1 with plasma gun, 5 with bolters)
 Tactical squad 2, 6 marines (1 with plasma gun, 5 with bolters), Razorback with twin
 lascannon, smoke and extra armour.
 Tactical squad 3, 5 marines, (1 with Power weapon and bolt pistol, 4 with ccw and bolt
 pistols) Razroback with twin heavy bolter, smoke and extra armour
 Assault Marines, 6 Marines (2 Marines with Power weapons and bolt pistols, 4 marines with
 ccw and bolt pistols)
 Landraider crusader with smoke and dozer blades.

 My mates BA army (I am doing this from memory so could be slightly out)
 Sanguinery high priest, with power weapon, bolt pistol, terminator honours and chalice thing.
 Honour guard, 7 Marines (1 with Thunder hammer and bolt pistol, 3 with power weapons
 and bolt pistols, 3 with ccw and bolt pistols).
 Chaplain and death company with jump packs.
 2 Furioso dreadnoughts with melta and storm bolter.
 Tactical squad 1. 5 marines with bolters, Razorback with twin heavy bolter and smoke.
 Tactical squad 2. 5 marines with bolters, Razorback with twin heavy bolter and smoke.
 2 Attack bikes with Multi meltas.
 Landraider.
 There were 9 members of death company

 We selected an ice world to play on. Looking from my perspective the scenery was as
 follows. From left to right.
 A wood on the left about 12" onto the baord, with a refinary to the right of this. Down the
 centre of the board was a glacier. On the right of this was a hil witha hidden crevace and a
 crevace to the rear this. Opposite the Left hand woods was a frozen lake, and opposite the
 hill was a woods. The terrain was pretty open. The selected mission was patrol. I got to
 choose deployment zone so selected the area behind the hill on a corner deployment. I had to
 deploy first so put down the tactical squad 2 behind the hill.
 He placed tactical squad 1 on the glacier as far to my right as he was allowed.
 I choose to take turn one. Although a variable game, we decided to start rolling at turn 6, to
 make the game last a little longer.

 BT Turn 1
 I moved my razorback around the hill and took a bead on his razorback. I lascannon shot
 later, his razorback exploded and killed a marine. 4 marines left in that squad.

 BA Turn 1
 The remains of tactical squad 1 moved towards the woods to take cover.

 BT Turn 2
 On my reserve roll I rolled 4 sixes in a row, getting my commander, assault termis, assault
 marines and dreadnought on the board. My Emps champ came on, a good start to the game.
 I moved the razirback back behind th ehill, deploying tactical squad 2 behind the hill. The
 Terminators, commander and emps champ came on behind the hill and moved up behind the
 tactical squad 2. The dreadnought and assault marines moved up as far fowrad as possible,
 using the woods as cover. I had nothing to shoot at and so the turn ended.

 BA Turn 2
 The landraider, Tactical squad 2, death company, I dreadnough and 1 attack bike all came
 on. All except the dreadnought came on on my far left, as far ontp the borad as possible. The
 landraider ended up out of cover, sheilding the razorback. The death company and the bike
 deployed behind the woods. The dreadnought entered on the glacier behind tacticla squad 1.
 Tactical squad 1 mean while moved into the woods. 

 BT Turn 3
 I managed to get tactical squad 1 and tactical squad 3 onto the board, but still no sign of the
 crusader. I moved squad 2 behind the hill with the terminators moving foward. Squad 2's
 razorback moved around the hill to take a bead on the landraider. Tacticla squad 1 entered
 behind the dreadnought wich moved up to support the assault marines. The assault marines
 moved around the woods to get a bead on BA tactical squad 1. Tact squad 3 moved on
 behind the hidden crevace and the emps champ boarded the razorback to join the squad.
 My assault squad killed 2 marines form tact squad 1, who broke out of cover. The
 dreadnought shot at the furioso, but failed to penetrate. The razorback on the left also failed to
 penetrate the frontal armoutr of the landraider.
 My assault marines now had to charge the falling back marines, and wiped them out with no
 loss to them selves. This forced me to asault he nearest enemy unit with a sweeping advance.
 This was the furioso dreadnought, which I couldn't penetrate.

 BA Turn 3
 The last attack bike, furioso and the command squad coame on. The command squad entered
 the landraider which moved of 12". Tactical squad 2 moved and then tried to overcharge and
 blew thier engine. The squad dismounted. The bikes and death company moved up behind the
 refinery, slowly making a flank move on my position. The landraider had a shot at the
 razorback, but although it hit, did not penetrate its front armour. The last furisos charged into
 the combat with the other dreadnought and the assault marines. The combat resulted in the
 loss of 2 marines.

 BT Turn 4
 My crusader came on and deployed in on the left of my zone, guarding my flank against the
 approaching death company. The dreadnought moved into the centre ground, but lanched
 smoke at I thought the landraider was too far away. The terminators, and squad 2 moved to a
 better position behind the hill, with squad 3 moving around the crevaces to be in a supporting
 role for these 2 squads. Squad 1 strung out to attempt to shoot the dreadnoughts when the
 time came. My razorback failed to do anything with its lascannon against the landraider. I
 were eventually beaten the combat. 

 BA Turn 4
 The landraider charged forward another 12", with tactical squad 2 moving up behind the bikes
 and deathguard, which had now halted behind the last building in the refinary complex.
 Shooting from the landraider stunned the dreadnought, with the immobalzied razorback
 destroying squad 2's razorback. This exploded on a 6 and took out a marine standing nearby.
 The furiosos had moved up but were out of range with thier melta's, but managed to take out
 a marine in squad 1.

 BT Turn 5
 The landraider moved up as the rest of the army pulled back to defend the up coming assaults.
 Lack of waeponry meant I had few attacks, but a melta on one furioso was destroyed by
 squad 1's plasma weapon.

 BA Turn 5
 The furiosos moved forward towithin range of the dreadnough and squad 1. The landraider
 made 2 difficult terrain tests and powered over the glacier, deploying the honour guard.
 The chaplin and the death compnay made it to the glaciers edge, with a bike in support.
 Tactical squad 2 and the last attack bike were in close support.
 The machine spirit on the landraider failed to hit the dreadnought.
 The attack bike failed to penetrate the crusaders thick armour. The hounour gurad charged
 into the commander and the assault terminators. Although he had the charge the high priest
 only managed to hit and wound twice. As he was in base to base with a thinder hammer
 marine, I manged to save ona dn then, died. However my captain killed 2 marines that were in
 base to base contact, the thunder hammer BA and a power weapon BA. I won the combat
 but the BA did nto with draw. I moved up all I could and surrounded the remaing honour
 guard. 

 BT Turn 6
 The crusader moved forward towithin range of the death company. Tactical squad 2 moved
 between the crevaces to stay out of charge range. Squad 3 and the emps champ deployed
 and 
 charged the honour guard, with my Emps champ challenging the high priest. My crusader
 caused a single casualty to the death company, and failed to hit the attack bike.
 Squad 1 one stunned a furioso, but the dreadnought failed to penetrate the landraiders
 armour.
 The high priest took a wound form the champion, with none in return. However, the combined
 ligthning claw attacks from the commnader and the terminators wiped out the remaining
 marines for no loss. 

 BA Turn 6
 The death guard moved over the galcier, with both dreadnoughts moving into charge range.
 The attack bike and squad 2 moved forward, but were still out of range to be effective.
 The first attack bike caused a 6 pentreting hit wich almost took out a death company marine.
 The landraider blew the heavy bolters off of squad 3's razorback. The death company
 charged tactical squad 2, and killed 3 marines for no loss. The furiosos charged my
 dreadnought and tactical squad. The BT dreadnought was ripped apart, but only 2 marines
 from squad 1 died. 
 The combat between the emps champ and high preist resulted in a wound to the high preist
 who failed his moral roll. He fled to the woods, and was closly folloed by squad 3 and the
 chmapion. The terminators could not follow, so consolidated towards the death company. The
 furioso moved up to sqaud 1 to help annahilate it.

 BT Turn 7
 My terminators moved into charge range, and squad 3 moved up to shoot at the high priest.
 Which they managed to do, and he failed his armour save, removing him from play. The
 terminators charged, and minced the death company, leaving only the chaplin alive, with 2
 tactical marines left. 1 single marine was left alive from squad 1 (Amazing as they had 5 power
 fist attacks against the 3 remaing models.) The emps champ charged the landraider, and
 shook the crew.

 BA Turn 7
 The attack bikes and tactical squad move up, and took out the last 2 members of squad 3
 whoe were with the emps champ. The chaplin died under the swift claws of the commander,
 causing no wounds in return. The last of BT squad 1 was also removed from play.

 BT Turn 8
 Tactical squad 2 moved up to the furioso, with the terminators behind. The Emps champ blew
 up one of the lascannons on the landraider. The tactical squad plasma weapon took out a
 furioso causing another 6 on the pentrate table, which failed to injury anybody. The
 terminators charged, the thunder hammer blwoing the dreanought away with ease, but lossing
 a marine to the powerfists of the furioso.

 BA Turn 8
 The attack bike on the edge of the crevace succumed and charged forward 1 inch on to
 difficult terrain, and then rolled a 1, and was lost (Funniest moment of the game). The ladt
 remaing weapon fire took out a single terminator.

 Game ended.
 Technically the BT's won by 15 points, but it was agreed that it should be a draw as we had
 both taken out over 1100 points of each others armies.
 It was a titanic battle, but great fun. Comments welcome. 
 Reply 
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       Heres my army list + some tactics! . (5 Replies). darkelveslife[]. 1/21/2002 12:21 (1/23/2002 19:46) 
 Chaplain
 Death Company
 Bolt Pistol
 Jumppack
 Pts. 211

 Sanginary High Priest
 Powerfist
 Jumppack
 Pts. 120

 10 Tac Marines
 Melta Gun
 Vet Serge
 Rhino (smoke launchers+extra armour)
 Pts. 248

 10 Tac Marines
 Melta Gun
 Vet Serge
 Rhino (smoke launchers+extra armour)
 Pts. 248

 6 Tac Marines
 Lascannon
 Melta Gun
 Vet Serge w/ Powerfist
 Razorback (twin linked lascannons+extra armour+smoke launchers)
 Pts. 268

 5 Scouts
 Sniper Rifle
 Pts. 70

 Land Speeder
 MultiMelta
 Pts. 65

 5 Assult Marines
 2 Plasma Pistols
 Pts. 135

 Dreadnaught
 Lascannon
 Missile Launcher
 Pts. 135
 

 1500 Points

 I'd put my SHP with the Assult Marine squad for some LD help and the Chosen rule. Than I'd
 screen them with the Death Company, and maybe if i get into melee they would ALL get to
 reroll their misses!

 My Razorback and smaller Tac squad would be seperate, the razorback would sit back and
 shoot at big targets, and the other unit would be relitivly near the thick of things blasting away
 with their lascannon and melta gun and they haver the vet serge w/the powerfist just in case
 theyres a vehicle nearby they can assult.

 The larger Tac Squads would just drive up and assult (wow!) and their Rhinos would drive
 around tankshocking people.

 The Scout squad would act as a little pester unit, getting into assult maybe but if not hopefully
 pinning at least 1 unit a game with their Sniper.

 The dread would stay back and shoot and the Landspeeder would zoom around
 tankshocking and blasting armour wherever it can. 
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           RE: Heres my army list + some tactics! . (0 Replies). citrusmidget[]. 1/22/2002 19:19 (1/22/2002 19:19) 
 well if you insist, though i think that the reason ppl didnt reply was because your army is just
 so good! The only thing i would suggest is to replace your landspeeder with a attack bike
 because i dont see how a land speeder would tank shock and also the attack bike can assult if
 you need it to which us blood angels love to do. I dont know about the sniper in the scout
 squad, it might be better off if you oriented your scout squad completely toward assulting or
 toward range(snipers and heavy bolters) 
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           your army is a grand one :-) but here are some things for you to ponder :-) . (3 Replies).
 BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 1/22/2002 19:52 (1/23/2002 19:46) 
 hey there!

 Your army is great - but I did come up with a couple of things for you to think about just for a
 change of pace :-)

 Consider these things, try them if you have a chance and keep using them if you like the effect
 :-)

 tac squad vet sergeants need power weapons - and ideally plasma pistols for added anti
 vehicle power
 lose the powerfist from your razorback crew (that's clearly a shooting unit - your powerfist
 could be used better by one of your front line units
 just for fun try dropping the sanguinary priest and add some more assault marines - I think
 you'll like it :-)
 give that a whirl and see how you like it :-)

 don't get me wrong I LOVE Sanguinary High Priests - but I usually save them for 2000pt
 games when I can afford to take them AND an Honor Guard with them - and I keep that unit
 right behind my Chaplain/Death Company for a nice double whammy. Also I usually kit my
 Chaplain out with a plasma pistol and term honors - and the Sanguinary High Priest usually
 gets jumppack, term honors, iron halo, pair of lightning claws :-) 

 gotta run, hope this helps! ~ Brother Edward
 

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               back to the front :-) . (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 1/23/2002 18:58 (1/23/2002 18:58) 
 back to the front with this one :-) 
 Reply 
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               RE: your army is a grand one :-) but here are some things for you to ponder :-) . (1 Replies).
 darkelveslife[]. 1/23/2002 19:10 (1/23/2002 19:46) 
 >>tac squad vet sergeants need power weapons - and ideally plasma pistols for added anti
 vehicle power

 ok i can do this, but where can I shave off points?

 >> lose the powerfist from your razorback crew (that's clearly a shooting unit - your powerfist
 could be used better by one of your front line units

 done! ^_^

 >> just for fun try dropping the sanguinary priest and add some more assault marines - I think
 you'll like it :-)
 >> give that a whirl and see how you like it :-)
 >> 
 >> don't get me wrong I LOVE Sanguinary High Priests - but I usually save them for 2000pt
 games when I can afford to take them AND an Honor Guard with them - and I keep that unit
 right behind my Chaplain/Death Company for a nice double whammy. Also I usually kit my
 Chaplain out with a plasma pistol and term honors - and the Sanguinary High Priest usually
 gets jumppack, term honors, iron halo, pair of lightning claws :-) 
 

 Well Im sure I'd LOVE to do that, but, I dont have the models! So thats the only reason.
 When I run into some more money ill do that! 
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                   last bits of advice - hee hee hee :-) . (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 1/23/2002
 19:46 (1/23/2002 19:46) 
 You'll do fine with whatever you take I'm sure - you've got that all telling "air of intelligence"
 about you :-) Army lists should change all the time, think of it as learning to cook - try lots of
 different recipes and you'll find that different "meals" suit the different occassions more
 appropriately than others :-)

 stay behind cover (in every game) until you are close enough to the bad guys for your assault.

 when facing other assault armies - let them come running toward you and gun them down as
 they come - kill their vehicles first (that is highest priority) then shoot them down as they walk
 across the field at you - when they are close enough you need to hit them with concentrated
 assaults.

 when facing shooty armies - move forward fast and stay behind cover - your only hope is to
 get your assault elements up close enough to launch a coordinated assault (which should break
 them if you get enough units into contact). Against many shooty armies I take my most vicious
 assault armies (though Eldar require the most special tactics if you face a veteran) but still - if
 you have mobility and powerful assault the only way a shooty army CAN beat you is to shoot
 reduce your force from far away!

 Any armies inbetween these two will be inferior in the assault department (at least to your
 potential) so be confident that you rule assaults - stay behind cover, let them approach you
 (move VERY carefully so that YOU get the assault - not them!) and stick them in assault and
 don't let go! mixed armies will have their hands very full if you begin landing well thought out
 Blood Angels assaults in their ranks :-)

 one last trick to remember - in that last moment of assault - if you have an other assault unit
 there near the Chaplain/DC , let the second assault unit follow right in behind the DC, and I
 mean right behind - had that second unit with their hands on the backs of the DC guys! in this
 way they will be able to further support the DC assault (and likely counter assault anyone who
 tries to hit the DC unit) AND if this second assault unit is led by a Sanguinary High Priest (as
 you may be able to afford in a 2000pt game) then remember EVERY BA model within 6
 inches gets to re-roll their missed to hit rolls in their efforts to impress the Sanguinary High
 Priest - if you have this guy right behind your Chaplain and DC then guess who gets to re-roll
 their misses when they charge! the Chaplain and many of the DC if they are within 6 inches :-)

 so go have fun at your tournament, win some (and come tell us abvout it!) and lose some too
 (you'll learn more from the games you lose!) then come bqack here and tell us what happened
 so we can all hear about it and figure out what happened and how to best defeat it the next
 time we see it :-)

 oh hey - I'm going to post this thread (and others that I have) on my Blood Angels website
 this spring, so you may want to come check out the info sometime, I've found there's always
 something that I've just never thought of - that's why I love hearing from everyone here in the
 forum!

 I'd better get going, good luck in your tournament!
 happy gaming ~ Brother Edward

 PS. my 40k website is
 http://www.dragonrealm.com/exlibrismortis
 
 
 
 
 

 >> Well Im sure I'd LOVE to do that, but, I dont have the models! So thats the only reason.
 When I run into some more money ill do that! 
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       Countering assault-based armies . (0 Replies). egbertdfat[alpha_egbert@msn.com]. 1/21/2002
 12:30 (1/21/2002 12:30) 
 I have limited experience against the BA, but have found a couple of things that work. They
 are probably pretty obvious to some of you vets, but the new guys might find my ramblings
 useful.
 In a 2000 point fight, I use a combination of mobilty and semi-fixed fire support.
 My fire base is given a Devastator squad with 2 las cannons and 2 plasma cannons. I have a
 Whirlwind to back up the anti-personnel weapons, as well as the occasional lucky hit that
 knocks out a vehicle.I have 2 fire support tac-squads, each with a las-cannon, and a plasma
 gun. One is Rhino mounted, the other in a razorback. The Razorback is modified to accept
 different armament configurations, depending upon the threat. I use either a twin linked heavy
 bolter for swarming armies (orks and nids), twin-linked las-cannon for the more heavy armor
 oriented armies, and a twin-linked plasma-gun/las-cannon combination for when I can't make
 up my mind.
 My mobile forces are the following:
 A full sized assault squad with a vet sergeant, a couple of plasma pistols, and melta-bombs.
 These folks make a good 'fire brigade'. Their job is counter-attacking in defense, and
 take-and-hold in offense.
 I have a pair of landspeeders, one with a multi-melta, the other with a heavy bolter. Their job
 is harrassment, and seizing key areas of the board.
 I have a Chaplain as an HQ choice, with a Plasma pistol, and a jump pack. He's employed
 independently, where he's needed the most.
 Finally, I have a pair of general-purpose tac squads. Both mounted in Rhino's. They each have
 a sergeant with bolt pistol/CCW. There is a flamer, and a missile launcher in each. These guys
 are used as needed, for holding ground, assault and counter-assault, or fire support.
 The key to employing this force is a mix of mobility and the use of mutually supporting fire. 
 I prefer to knock mounted units out of their vehicles, the further away, the better. Once the
 enemy is on foot, the more time you have to whittle them down before the assault reaches me.
 When being caught in a general assault, as happens when deploying close to the opposition,
 it's a little more difficult.
 There, I tend to keep a fixed base at the asault, move available forces around the flank, and
 envelop the enemy from more than one side.
 What would your counter-strategy be to this army?
 Thanks for reading this long post.

 Egbertdfat,
 Scythes of the Emperor &
 Eagle Warriors

 This post brought to you by Bill's Bolter Barn! Come by and get your plastic Emperor for only
 89 cents each! Perfect for mounting on the dashboard of you Rhino, Predator, or Landraider!
 GUARANTEED to keep the demons out of your transports, and improve your gunnery skills!

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       Oh no, now I have to read the replies too!! :'( . (0 Replies).
 ChazDaTaco[chaz_da_taco@hotmail.com]. 1/21/2002 15:09 (1/21/2002 15:09) 
 Ah, The life of the forum junkie is not an easy path to tread :(

 -Chaz Out 
 Reply 
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       VETERANS - HELP HarryKeogh FIGHT IG!!! :-) . (2 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 1/21/2002
 16:35 (1/21/2002 17:38) 
 Battle brothers!

 Help our brother defeat these renegade IG armies! The original post is reposted below, begin
 quote:

 Blood Angels get beaten by Imperial Guard (TACTICS?) . (1 Replies). HarryKeogh[].
 1/21/2002 14:22 (1/21/2002 14:58) 

 My Blood Angel Army has just got it's butt kicked by A large contingent of Imperial Guard. I
 have played against Imperial Guard armies for a long time. Can anybody give me some advice
 on how to disable/destroy Artillery ?
 I have attempted to deep strike using both reg/vet assault squads and Terminators,But
 because my opponent has got Hydra Flak guns my Drop Pods get shot out of the sky before
 or just after they have landed.My terminator squads have had some sucess but after taking out
 1 or 2 pieces of Artillery they get cut down by Infantry heavy weapons or fire support
 squads.On this occasion my assault squads landed both close and a distance away 12" but the
 same thing happened. Except the assault squads that landed a distance away, landed on a
 mine field that I did not expect to find so close to my opponents lines of defense.
 SO PLEASE IF YOU HAVE ANY IDEAS PLEASE SHARE THEM WIYH ME.

 Thanks 
 A desparate Blood Angel....
 

 Thought of the day..... Retirement sounds like fun. 

 END QUOTE.
 This commander will no doubt gain some new insights from what has already been posted -
 but please lend him your personal advice if you feel you know what may help him!
 Glory to the Emperor and Sanguinius ~ Brother Edward 
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           Here's a few ideas . (0 Replies). Disturbed[]. 1/21/2002 17:22 (1/21/2002 17:22) 
 When terminators and assault squads deepstrike, they don't use drop pods. Terminators
 teleport and assault squads swoop in from low flying thunderhawks. 
 Use bikes, attack bikes and speeders, with meltas and multi meltas, to hit artillery peices.
 Keep them behind cover as much as possible, then break them out and hit them with a
 vengeance. Try a predator annihilator.Now, being that you're going up against guard, there
 will be alot of weapons on the baord to take it out, so that one is risky.
 Scouts! Yes scouts. They can infiltrate, so tend to be able to get pretty close. Take your 1
 squad of scouts from the normal codex, and give them a missle launcher. As for your BA
 scouts, krak grenades.Maybe take a vet sgt with melta bombs.
 The best method is none of the above, but a combo of at least 2 of them. You can afford to
 shell out some points to be directed at your enemies artillery, since it's so potent.

 If none of this makes sense, it's cause I'm a raving madman. The bit about the drop pods
 stands though. You're drop pods shouldn't be getting shot down because you shouldn't have
 any.

 Now, where's that confounded blue crayon?
 The Disturbed One 
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           RE: VETERANS - HELP HarryKeogh FIGHT IG!!! :-) . (0 Replies). ChaosDave[]. 1/21/2002 17:38
 (1/21/2002 17:38) 
 Ok the first thing that comes to mind is your problem with deep strikers getting shot to bits.
 Well for starters stop using them or just use teleporting termies alone. Second you could try
 using scouts, a good infiltrating scout Sgt. with melta bombs can really make a hole in your
 opponents fragile artillery. 

 Next you need to remember 1 important thing, if your troops are in h2h, he can't shoot at
 them with arty. So with that said use the “speed is life” tactic and get your troops into h2h as
 fast a possible.

 Please correct me if I’m wrong but aren't quite a few of his arty pieces open topped? If so
 counter battery fire can be extremely effective. A whirlwind or 2 firing at his arty can really
 cause some havoc and at 75pts each you can’t go wrong.

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       a very nasty Blood Angle Tactic! . (0 Replies). baronsmeg[]. 1/21/2002 18:40 (1/21/2002 18:40) 
 well this works exceptionaly well for victory point missions!

 basically go for the largest death company you can!!!

 haras your opponent with it, they know it is dangerous! force them to waist their resources
 trying to destroy it! 

 why?

 Because it is free!

 Baronsmeg and his mini lop! 
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       Nice post! Here's my contribution! . (0 Replies).
 RoanortheBlackHearted[khorneschosenson@lycos.com]. 1/21/2002 18:55 (1/21/2002 18:55) 
 OK first off, I loved this post and it was very interesting to read. Second thanks for talking
 about the Art of War cus I'm goin to my local Barnes&Noble tonight. Third, here's my army
 with all of its various forms and tactics. This is 2 years of work so you ppl better like it!

 HQ
 Chaplain w/Artificer Armour, Jump Pack, Bionics
 (with his Death Company my Chaplain is my chief assault unit. With Jump Packs they can also
 be used for Deep Striking where I need them most)

 Librarian w/Power Weapon, 2 WD powers(issue 257), Artificer Armour, Psychic Hood, Iron
 Halo (This guy is always supporting one of my Tac Squads! I use him most of the time instead
 of my Cpt because I always give him Movement and Temporal Psychic Powers and with
 Quickening he adds serious punch to an assault!)

 Captain(version 1) w/Jump Pack, Iron Halo, Power Weapon, Bionics, Artificer Armour,
 Master Crafted Plamsa Pistol (My Cpt will add more power either as an Indendent Char or
 he will bolster the Death Company or my Assault Squad with a very hard to kill Marine. I
 dont use him to much though. It's mostly my Chap and Lib.

 Captain(version 2)Iron Halo, Master Crafted Power Weapon,Bionics,Artificer Armour,
 Storm Bolter (This Cpt is used again as an Independent Char or as more support for one of
 my Tac Squads)

 Elites
 Furioso Dreadnought
 This guy is my 3nd best tank killer. He either blasts em close with his Meltagun or rips em
 apart

 Vindicare Assassin
 When dealing with big nasty HQ units I tend to call on my Vindicare to snipe heavy hitters and
 he even has the chance to take out one tank with the Turbo Penetrator round!

 Troops
 Tac Squad with Vet Sgt with a Plasma Pistol and Power Weapon. Squad has a Meltagun.
 Rhino has Extra Armour Smokes and an extra Storm Bolter(With three of these at my
 disposal I can execute quite an array of assault plans on my enemy with my basic troops
 alone! The Meltagun and Plasma Pistol help take out enemy transports or supporting tanks. (I
 also have Powerfist Sgts in case of things like Armoured Company and Wraithlords)

 Scouts (one squad is kept in storage in case of bait or diversions)

 Fast Attack
 Assault Squad w/Vet Sgt with Power Weapon and Plasma Pistol and Melta Bombs. Squad
 has Melta Bombs and 2 Plamsa Pistols(these are my 2nd best tank killers with a movement of
 12" 3 Plasma Pistols and Melta Bombs they can blow up most anything. They also are good
 at CC)

 Heavy Support
 Baal Predator
 Extra Armour, Smokes, Storm Bolter, and Heavy Bolter Side Sponsons( This is the best anti-
 infantry weapon the BA have at thier disposal in my opinion. Great against most anything!)

 Dreadnought w/Twin-Linked Lascannon, Missle Launcher, Extra Armour, Smokes(This is my
 best tank killer! He has taken down unbelievable amounts of tanks and especially Land
 Raiders! He can also be anit infantry if I give him an Assault Cannon!) 
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       Blood Angels heavy support . (1 Replies). Brainsqueezeguy[]. 1/21/2002 19:20 (1/21/2002 20:09) 
 Brother Edward, this is probobally the hardest aspect of designing a blood angels army. Im so
 unsure of what to use. A blood angels army is focused a lot on speed, and speed costs points,
 which leaves very little for my heavy support (usually a predator destructor) which gets shot to
 hell on turn 1. Ive experimented with NO heavy support which left me to try to figure out how
 to kill 3 tanks with 3 plasma weapons(very tricky) and taking a devastator squad hidden by a
 tactical squad(effective but more points than im wililng to spend.)What should i do, this is my
 current army list. Please Help

 Chaplain
 Jump Pack
 2 lightning claws
 1 m.c.
 a. armor
 t. honors
 

 Brother Captain Tycho
 (in rhino with tactical)

 Eversor Assasin

 Terminators (5)
 Chainfist
 H flamer

 Tactical (9)
 V sarge
 P fist
 B pistol
 Rhino
 Plasma Gun

 tactical(5)
 H bolter

 Assault marines (5)
 v sarge
 p fist
 p pistol

 scouts(5)

 Devastators(5)
 p cannon
 lascannon
 h bolter
 Missle Launcher
 

 PLEASE HELP. 
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           give this a try . (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 1/21/2002 20:09 (1/21/2002 20:09) 
 Hey there :-)

 Firepower - let's get to it then!

 Drop the assassin, drop the character (use characters later once you've become more
 comfortable with the army), lose your terminators too. Now take those points and add two
 more marines to your 5 man tac squad and give them a rhino, put the devastators in a
 razorback with twin linked lascannons, spend remaining points on more assault troops (with
 jumppacks) and give that a whirl for a few games :-) keep everyone behind cover and... oh
 wait, I've written a big article on general tactics at the top of this thread - go check it out! :-)

 give this a try, hope this helps! and it should :-)
 Glory to the Emperor and Sanguinius ~ Brother Edward

 PS. later on you can play with terminators more :-)

 PSPS. sprinkly missile launchers through your tac squads, give your assault people a meltagun
 and something else shooty :-) 
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       blood angels list . (3 Replies). juiceisgood[]. 1/21/2002 21:15 (1/22/2002 18:28) 
 sorry bout the caps

 damn cut and paste

 CHAPLAIN-POWER WEAPON, BOLT PISTOL, TERMINATOR HONOURS, JUMP
 PACK, ROSARIUS. 221 PTS.

 SANGUINARY HIGH PRIEST-POWER WEAPON, BOLT PISTOL, TERMINATOR
 HONOURS, JUMP PACK, IRON HALO. 156 PTS.

 5 HONOUR GUARD-JUMP PACKS, POWER WEAPONS, VET. SERGEANT,
 TERMINATOR HONOURS, BOLT PISTOLS. 252 PTS.

 ELITES
 5 VET. ASSAULT MARINES-BOLT PISTOLS AND CHAIN SWORDS,
 TERMINATOR HONOURS, VET, SARGE, POWER WEAPON. 217 PTS.

 10 VET. MARINES-VET SARGE., TERMINATOR HONOURS, BOLT PISTOLS AND
 CLOSE COMBAT WEAPONS, POWER FIST. 573 PTS.

 7 ASSAULT TERMINATORS - LIGHTNING CLAWS 294 PTS.

 TROOPS
 5 MARINES - MELTA, BOLTERS, VET SARGE, POWER AXE, RAZOR BACK,
 TWIN LAS-CANNONS 202 PTS.

 5 MARINES - PLASMA GUN, BOLTERS, VET SARGE, RAZOR BACK, TWIN
 LAS-CANNONS 183 PTS.

 5 SCOUTS - BOLT PISTOL AND CLOSE COMBAT WEAPONS 65 PTS.

 5 SCOUTS - SNIPER RIFLES 90 PTS.

 FAST ATTACK
 2 LAND SPEEDERS - HEAVY BOLTERS 100 PTS.

 1 LAND SPEEDER - HEAVY BOLTERS 50 PTS.

 10 ASSAULT MARINES - CHAIN SWORDS, BOLT PISTOLS, VET SARGE, POWER
 WEAPON. 280 PTS.

 HEAVY SUPPORTS
 LAND RAIDER CRUSADER - HUNTER KILLER, MULTI MELTA, 2 HURRICANE
 BOLTERS, TWIN ASSAULT CANNON 270 PTS.

 LAND RAIDER - 2 TWIN LAS CANNONS, TWIN HEAVY BOLTERS. PTS. 250
 PTS.
 

 TOTAL 2985 PTS. 
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           tactics . (2 Replies). juiceisgood[]. 1/21/2002 21:38 (1/22/2002 18:28) 
 leme see well ok

 TACTICS: blood angels have the potential to hit very hard and fast but this ability shouldn't
 tempt you to make you attack unsupported, there is nothing wrong with a assault squad sitting
 in cover for one turn so that some rhinos can support them, aslong as you keep your opponent
 pinned or give them too many targets to shoot at.

 i try to surround enemy units and cut them off, that way they are in a good position to crose
 fire

 oh and wipe out units in assault so you can sweeping advance, this little trick can see you eat
 away you enemys in melee
 

 juice 
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               *bump* (NT) . (1 Replies). Romanov[]. 1/22/2002 0:47 (1/22/2002 18:28) 
 No Text 
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                   RE: *bump* (NT) . (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 1/22/2002 18:28 (1/22/2002 18:28) 
 back to the front page with you :-) 
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       anything by Sawyer . (0 Replies). leathernecks[]. 1/22/2002 1:12 (1/22/2002 1:12) 
 I believe the best authentic translation of ART of WAR is by Sawyer, ralph (i think), he did a
 masterful translation and commentary of the seven chinese military classics...

 anyway on with the show ... great post Brother Edward, may your days be long and your
 battles be fierce, and may more posts follow your lead... 
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       thought for the day: Sanguinary High Priest with a pair of lightning claws/term honors/iron halo
 :-) . (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 1/22/2002 9:45 (1/22/2002 9:45) 
 Good morning my battle brothers!

 The January seminar is doing very well I see! And apprently I named it appropriately because
 I have just learned that threads begin disappearing when they hit the age of thirty days old! So
 post your wisdom here brothers - and save it to your hard drives! NEver fear though - for I
 have been saving information like this for months, and soon I'll open a new section on my site
 with tactical threads from ages past for my fellow Blood Angels to read at their leisure, that
 we may serve the Emperor with even greater ferocity and capability :-)

 Glory to the Emperor and Sanguinius ~ Brother Edward 
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       Victory against the Imperial Guard. . (1 Replies). HarryKeogh[]. 1/22/2002 14:06 (1/22/2002 14:47) 
 Bother Edward,

 If you get around to reading this I would like to thank you for your tactical brilliance.After
 reading this post me and my IG opponent replayed part of the battle.I attacked him with a five
 point assault.My art'y pounded his and he pounded mine my scout squads managed to get
 close enough to open fire with their Hvy bolter and sniper rifles pinning his art'y support
 squads of infantry.My DC/Term's/reg. and vet. assault squads jumped in without drop pods
 and I managed to engage his artillery crews,and I sent in 4 Furibundus dreadnoughts(old
 type)with two furioso and moriar by drop pods(WH journal 42) who survived fire from his
 hydra's.After getting behind his front lines he offered terms of surrender,which I quite politely
 refused and continued kicking his butt.
 His mistake was agreeing to let me use my Assault Squad, Drop pods as dreadnought drop
 pods.I dont think he would do so on the next occasion. 
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           WHOOHOO!! :-) . (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 1/22/2002 14:47 (1/22/2002 14:47) 
 I am so very pleased to hear of your victory! :-) Everything that I have written is simply what I
 have picked up from the very many battlefield disasters (and a share of successes) which I
 have encountered, and I'm very pleased when people can hear of my experiences and learn
 from my mistakes :-)

 In the next couple of months I'm going to be posting some of the best tactical threads (like this
 one) on my website as a tactical library for Blood Angels players - it will be in the tactical
 section (I think you have the address for my site, but here it is again
 http://www.dragonrealm.com/exlibrismortis )

 I'm doing this because I've just learned that messages here in the forum are now self erasing
 after 30 days - so it will be more difficult to build up a broad body of information here, so we
 will gather it at my site, making the best insights available for dedicated Blood Angels players
 to come investigate if they wish :-)

 have fun with your games - try taking 8 man assault squads nex time so they can resist counter
 assaults better, also - have one assault squad right behind the other so that if someone is goofy
 enough to assault your first assault squad - the following assault squad can assault them
 immediately the next turn - a big train of destruction :-)

 happy gaming! I look forward to hearing more of your adventures as you post on the forum
 about other games that you play! :-)

 Glory to the Emperor and Sanguinius ~ Brother Edward
 
 
 
 
 

 >> Bother Edward,
 >> 
 >> If you get around to reading this I would like to thank you for your tactical brilliance.After
 reading this post me and my IG opponent replayed part of the battle.I attacked him with a five
 point assault.My art'y pounded his and he pounded mine my scout squads managed to get
 close enough to open fire with their Hvy bolter and sniper rifles pinning his art'y support
 squads of infantry.My DC/Term's/reg. and vet. assault squads jumped in without drop pods
 and I managed to engage his artillery crews,and I sent in 4 Furibundus dreadnoughts(old
 type)with two furioso and moriar by drop pods(WH journal 42) who survived fire from his
 hydra's.After getting behind his front lines he offered terms of surrender,which I quite politely
 refused and continued kicking his butt.
 >> His mistake was agreeing to let me use my Assault Squad, Drop pods as dreadnought
 drop pods.I dont think he would do so on the next occasion. 
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       could someone please look at my army list? (NT) . (0 Replies). darkelveslife[]. 1/22/2002 18:43
 (1/22/2002 18:43) 
 No Text 
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       PLEASE REVIEW BloodAngelsPlaya's BA ARMY :-) . (2 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[].
 1/22/2002 18:48 (1/22/2002 21:10) 
 BA veterans please review ( especially BA brother Edward) . (3 Replies).
 BloodAngelsPlaya[].
 1/22/2002 17:52 (1/22/2002 18:30) 
 Blood Angels Army List
 Tears of Sanguinius, Emperor’s chosen 
 

 HQ- Mephiston-217
 Special Rules see codex: Blood Angels

 Corbulos-156
 Special Rules see codex: Blood Angels

 Honor Guard-186
 Power weapons 3 with term honors, plasma pistol, vet. Sgt.

 Sanguinary High Priest, Narfius-151
 Exsanguinator, jump pack, iron halo, power weopon, melta bomb, bolter-plasma combination
 Special Rules see codex: Blood Angels

 D.C. Chaplain- 180!
 4+ invulnerable Special Rules see codex: Blood Angels
 Force Commander-60

 Blood Angels Librarian- 60

 Elites- 5 Terminators-220
 Heavy Flamer

 Troops- Silver Squad –176
 Vet. Sgt. With power weopon heavy bolter flamer

 Blue Squad-166
 Missile launcher, flamer

 Red Squad-170
 Missile launcher, melta gun 

 Scout Squad-170
 6 snipers, heavy bolter

 Fast Attack- Land Speeder-100 
 Multi-melta and Assualt cannon

 Attack Bike #1- 50
 Heavy Bolter

 Attack Bike # 2- 65
 Multi-melta

 Heavy Support- Baal Predator- 110
 Twin Linked assault cannons, heavy bolter, storm bolter

 Predator Annihilator- 145
 All lascannons

 C.C. Dreadnought-105
 Assault cannon and battle claw with storm bolter 

 Dreadnought- 135 
 Missile Launcher and lascannons

 Transport- Rhino-65
 Overcharged engines 

 I dont use all of my HQ units or my whole army in a single battle, so please dont say anything
 about too many HQ units or whatever. I am going to collect a Land Speeder squad and a
 devestator squad and a Terminator assualt squad and get Morior the Chosen. Please tell me
 opinions and tactics i can use with my army. It totals around 2600 im not sure though but
 that's around the amount my army is. 
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           my take on things :-) . (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 1/22/2002 18:55 (1/22/2002 18:55) 
 first - I wouldn't use any special characters - I'd try to learn how to use the army without them
 first (well sure use them for fun if you want in your home games - but don't rely upon them to
 win games with your friends locally). Now let's see what else you've got here....

 TROOP1: put red squad in a rhino and give the vet serg a power weapon)
 TROOP2: blue squad also in a rhino (not sure if you have another rhino though) :-)
 TROOP3: silver squad (without power weapon (purpose - fire support/reinforcement)
 FA1: speeder with multimelta/assault cannon
 FA2: two attack bikes - one w/hvy bolter, one w/multimelta
 HVY1: if you fight troop heavy armies take the Baal Pred
 or HVY1: if you fighr vehicle heavy enemies take the Annihilator
 HQ: Chaplain w/jumppack & DC

 that should be around 1500pts (maybe a tad over)

 if playing 2000pts then...
 take your Sanguinary High Priest w/jumppack and Honor Guard (w/jumppacks) and have
 them come in right behind the Chaplain/DC using the DC unit as a shield

 the secret to your success is a simple one - you MUST stay BEHIND COVER as MUCH
 AS POSSIBLE - then once you have carefully moved as many of your people as colse to the
 enemy as you can - try to hit one section of the enemy line with as many of your assault units
 as you can, supported by an advance with your tac squads in rhinos (if possible) and that
 should really put a dent in your opponent's army :-)

 I hope this helps some, and I hope that you'll have a chance to read over the many good
 articles here in the Blood Angel Tactical Seminar :-)

 Glory to the Emperor and Sanguinius ~ Brother Edward

 PS. Special characters and assassins are fun units too :-) My only thought in suggesting you
 not use them was that one can learn the basics of the army faster without the most highly
 specialized characters - I use the same train of thought with assassins as well :-)

 Characters and Assassins are all really fun and interesting units in the game though - and add
 an extra level of challenge and dimension to things - play with them for fun whenever you want
 - but be careful not to become dependent upon them :-)

 That was my thinking even though I didn't say it very well (I should have though) :-)

 Glory to the Emperor ~ Brother Edward 
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           TOO MANY HQ UNITS!!1111 . (0 Replies). HellCow[]. 1/22/2002 21:10 (1/22/2002 21:10) 
 I'm just kidding around! 
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       A Question . (6 Replies). Phsycoticspacemarine[]. 1/22/2002 20:58 (1/24/2002 18:19) 
 Hey! Brother Edward, I was wondering do you have any tactics concerning Dreadnoughts
 (especially the 'Furioso"). You made no mention of them in your article (which was very
 helpful).

 Thanx. 
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           Someone come help us talk about dreadnoughts . (5 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[].
 1/23/2002 4:59 (1/24/2002 18:19) 
 >> Hey! Brother Edward, I was wondering do you have any tactics concerning Dreadnoughts
 (especially the 'Furioso"). You made no mention of them in your article (which was very
 helpful).
 >> 
 >> Thanx.

 ++heya :-)

 Yep - we'll need to talk to someone else about dreadnoughts - I've always had a difficult time
 using them because... (long dramatic pause)....

 a tac squad can be put in a rhino (move of 12to 18 inches with it's overcharged engine)

 then jumppack troops move 12 inches

 so (in my army) after a couple of turns my assault people are in position - while the
 dreadnought is still tip toeing through the tulips in the back of the board.

 perhaps in more defensive scenarios - but I've just come to prefer a more mobile game (plus
 in my experience the dread catches a lot of fire (and isn't tough enough to deal with it) so again
 it's kind of a one hit wonder.... the one role that I have used it for on several occassions is that
 of long range fire support (for it can move and shoot) - I arm it with missile launcher and twin
 linked lascannons, try to place it behind scenery in deployment - and keep it behind scenery
 until I want to shoot - then I move up into the scenery and open fire - I'll keep him firing in the
 scenery until he buys the farm (cover save).

 maybe I'm not letting the dread live up to it's name - but I've had notoriously poor fortune
 getting him into h2h, and only marginal success in using it for fire support - to me there are
 other better weapons platforms to use (devastators/tanks/speeders/attackbikes).

 Veteran commanders - please send in your comments!

 Glory to the Emperor and Sanguinius ~ Brother Edward 
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               Furioso Dreadnought . (4 Replies). smallgraystone[]. 1/23/2002 11:35 (1/24/2002 18:19) 
 You're not supposed to use Dreadnoughts offensively. They're balanced defensive units with
 long-range firepower to knock out opponents at a distance, then with strong close combat
 ability to bolster the Space Marine infantry defense. So if you built an army with all transports,
 you shouldn't try to use Dreadnoughts.

 6 inch mobility isn't enough to charge the enemy, but it's good enough to allow the
 Dreadnought to maneuver into better position for firing, and better position to meet incoming
 enemy chargers.

 That goes double for Furioso Dreads. Furiosos have very limited range, so are only good for
 last-moment defense. You could potentially use Furiosos and lots of foot infantry, trading
 massive numbers of models for quick attack. Probably try using Whirlwinds and Vindicators
 for support, and Land Speeders with multimeltas to destroy enemy tanks early.

 Once again - if you have lots of transports, don't try using Dreadnoughts to support your
 transported infantry. Dreadnoughts are too slow to keep up with transports; they're only
 particularly useful on defense or slow offense.

 Even transport-based armies can use Dreadnoughts, to claim rear table quarters and the like,
 but that 90 some points is better spent on infantry and transports in most cases.

 This message have been brought to you by a small gray stone. 
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                   RE: Furioso Dreadnought . (3 Replies). Raphaelus[]. 1/23/2002 19:30 (1/24/2002 18:19) 
 i agree with small grey stone guy. i use two dreadnoughts in my blood angel force and move
 them forward with my troops who arent pegged for assault such tac squads without rhinos (i
 have two) and termies when theres no deep strike being used. they add some moving long
 range capability as well as some meat in hand to hand if they get there but to me most
 importantly - players seem to fear them even tho they arent as fearsome as they used to be -
 and i prefer that they shoot at the approaching dreads than the 1. troops theyre advancing with
 2. my heavy support 3. my troops in rhinos getting into position. and it seems to work. they
 form part of the hinge that my assault swings from 
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                       thank you! :-) . (2 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 1/23/2002 22:53 (1/24/2002 18:19) 
 thank you so much for sharing your insights into dreadnaught tactics! They've always been
 something of a mystery to me, and somewhat of a disappointment because I'd never really
 found a way to make their game performance match up with their fluff! But after reading your
 notes here I feel like I have a better understanding of them!

 many thanks! ~ Brother Edward 
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                           balance . (1 Replies). Raphaelus[]. 1/24/2002 18:06 (1/24/2002 18:19) 
 its a personal feeling about the marine force that i have - i played marines for 10 years and
 bloodangels since this edition came out - blood angels excel at assault but to me an army has
 to have both attributes - defence assault - the ability to make strong assaults the ability make a
 solid defence and the ability to stand and shoot. a lot of BA players ive seen concentrate on
 the assault and try to get their armies into combat as quickly as possible which is good, angels
 excel at that - however if something goes astray in doing that a lot of angel players fall down in
 a heap. they referred to an army in the 19th century that could use cavalry infantry & artillery
 as an all arms army and if you could use all three in combination then that was devastating. the
 theory holds here, in wh40k. and thats where dreads etc come in. my bikes and assault troops
 are my cavalry - the bikes & speeders distracting attention & harrying the flanks, the assault
 troops in rhinos my heavy cavalry, my foot soldiers and walkers are my infantry and my tanks
 my artillery and to me everything has its place.

 i dont know where that all came from 
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                               Very well said :-) . (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 1/24/2002 18:19
 (1/24/2002 18:19) 
 A good Assault army on the defensive is a neat thing to see - occassionally I'll have the chance
 to play against another assault army (orks, some Nid variants) and I really change my general
 battle plan - against an army which I am confident will come running screaming at us I am
 quite content to make my Blood Angels stand and shoot - we gun the enemy down in droves
 as they approach and then when they are weakened and closer we then unleash a nasty
 counter assault to break them - it's LOADS of fun! :-) shooty things to take when facing
 mob/swarm armies: attack bikes with hvy bolters, Baal Predator, Landspeeders with hvy
 bolters, and (especially) the Typhoon variant :-) also the whirlwind - useful if the bad guys are
 goofy enough to "pack'em in tight" :-) ah - devastator squads with plasma cannons - love
 those things :-)

 So try the ol' "stand and shoot a bit" once in a while boys - especially if you're fighting a
 swarm army who drastically outnumber you. You can get a3way with this for most swarm
 armies shoot poorly (they'v thrown everything into their assault capability) - so go be brave -
 stand before the wall of greenskins and shoot them as they run across the fiield - a friggin tac
 squad with bolters can do AMAZING things if they just sit and shoot - especially if they can
 rapidfire on something in the shooting phase before your assault troops tear into the bad guys
 with their well timed counterassault! :-)

 happy gaming ~ Brother Edward 
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       Blood Angels are the best.... . (1 Replies). harrykeogh[]. 1/23/2002 22:21 (1/23/2002 23:51) 
 BUMP 
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           Blood Angel Strike Force . (0 Replies). Romanov[]. 1/23/2002 23:51 (1/23/2002 23:51) 
 Ok, I'm going to post up my current army list. I've only just changed to collecting Blood
 Angels so there may be some errors (Especially the part where I have no death company yet
 :P)

 ---
 HQ:

 Force Commander - Storm Bolter, Master-crafted Power Sword.

 Chaplain - (not in use until I get death company)Crozius Arcanum, Rosarius, Bolt Pistol.

 Troops:

 Tactical Squad 1 - 1 Sergeant (w/CCW and Bolt Pistol), 1 Marine (w/Missile Launcher), 1
 Marine (w/Flamer), 7 Marines (w/Boltguns).

 Tactical Squad 2 - 1 Sergeant (w/CCW and Bolt Pistol), 1 Marine (w/Missile Launcher), 8
 Marines (w/Boltguns).

 Tactical Squad 3 - 1 Sergeant (w/CCW and Bolt Pistol), 1 Marine (w/Lascannon), 8 Marines
 (w/Boltguns).

 Tactical Squad 4 - 1 Sergeant (w/CCW and Bolt Pistol), 1 Marine (w/Missile Launcher), 1
 Marine (w/Flamer), 7 Marines (w/Boltguns).

 Elites:

 Terminator Assault Squad - 4 Terminators (w/Lightning Claws(2 each)), 2 Terminators
 (w/Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields).

 Fast Attack:

 Assault Squad - Sergeant (w/CCW, Plasma Pistol, Melta bombs, Jump pack), 1 Space
 Marine (w/CCW, Plasma Pistol, Jump Pack), 4 Space Marines (w/CCWs, Bolt Pistols,
 Jump Packs).

 Heavy Support:

 Predator Annihilator - Turret-Mounted Twin-Linked Lascannon, Sponsons armed with
 Lascannons.

 Land Raider Crusader - 'Hurricane' Pattern Bolters, Twin-Linked Assault Cannon,
 Multi-Melta, Storm Bolter, Extra Armour, Smoke Launchers.
 ---

 Hope you enjoyed... For the Emperor and Sanguinius!

 - Romanov. 
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       tactica bloodangel . (0 Replies). Ahrha[highelf69@hotmail.com]. 1/24/2002 0:57 (1/24/2002 0:57) 
 
 

 I mean no direspect at all but as a former special forces operator..I would like to ask how you
 would compare real world tactics at all without the proper training?????? 
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       Mobile force, what do you guys think??? . (1 Replies). SirServo[]. 1/24/2002 2:40 (1/24/2002 9:57) 
 Yes it is me again. Those of you who frequent the forms will know that I am going to my frist
 ever GT this year in Chicago. I have gone from Emperor's Children (not enough money), to
 Dark Eldar (fun, but I am still inexperinced), and finally I might take my faithful old Blood
 Angels, what do you think of this army.

 1700 pt Mobile Angel army

 HQ: 11%
 Chaplain - Jump Pack, Bolt Pistol, C.A., and Rosarious
 Deathcompany - Jump Pack, Bolt Pistol, Close-combat weapon
 Total = 201

 Elites: 12%
 5x Termie Assault Squad - Lightning Claws
 Total = 210

 Troops:49%

 9x Tatical Sqaud - Bolters, Flamer
 1x Sergeant - B.Pistol, CCW
 1x Rhino
 Total = 221

 9x Tatical Sqaud - Bolters, Flamer
 1x Sergeant - B.Pistol, CCW
 1x Rhino
 Total = 221

 9x Tatical Sqaud - Bolters, Melta Gun
 1x Sergeant - B.Pistol, CCW
 1x Rhino
 Total = 225

 4x Tatical Sqaud - Bolters, Missle Launcher
 1x Sergeant - B.Pistol, CCW
 1x Razorback - twin H.Bolters
 Total = 170

 Fast Attack: 11%

 4x Bike Squad - Twin Bolters, 2x Meltaguns
 1x Sergeant - B.Pistol, CCW

 Heavy Support: 14%

 Landraider Crusaider (transports those nasty Termies)
 Total = 255
 

 Army total = 1699
 

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           hey there! . (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 1/24/2002 9:57 (1/24/2002 9:57) 
 hey there!

 You have the beginnings of a GREAT army, I mean truly great :-) I'm really worried about
 your pointed lack of vehicle killing ability though - you need missle launchers wherever you
 can take them. I do see your meltaguns and they are the only thing that's saving my sanity right
 now :-) I mean I see your assault terminators and the LRC (a wonderful assault choice my
 friend!) but it seems to have some at the price of the ability to fight vehicular armies. Don't get
 me wrong it's just a minor tweaking that can be done, but I'm not awake enough right now to
 say just where and how :-)

 On another note, many may bring up the option of vet sergeants with power weapons - I'm
 assuming you've made the choice ot have a few more warm bodies in the field rather than
 sinking the points (which is a respectable choice!) however may I humbly suggest that you do
 put one vet serg with power weapon in the rhino which you plan on driving up to assault
 alongside the termies (you are shooting for a coordinated/supported assault yes?) in this way
 your rhino can drive up - flame (and flame only mind you) the bad guys (missing one poor
 fellow within 6 inches intentionally) then stick the unit with a powerful assault - that should put
 a dent in them :-)

 Well that's it for me, I hope this gives you something constructive to ponder - and if you
 ponder the things I've said and believe you have everything under control *for you may have
 "a plan") then more power to you! Go forth and unleash your armies upon the world and then
 come back here and share with us how things went! :-)

 happy gaming my friend ~ Brother Edward 

 PS. just for comparison (for illustration purposes only) so we can see your army above side
 by side with another more frequently seen BA detachment (so we can see more clearly the
 interesting path you've chosen!) :-)

 A more frequently seen BA option may go something along the lines of Chaplain/DC backed
 up by an assault squad, followed by mobile tac squads (flamer missle launcher) and
 devastators in a razorback. This is a more common sight - (personally I like your army better,
 it will be a great deal of fun to play with!) but I just wanted to show you a quick peek at the
 "norm" so you can see you've gone the more "full assault" road :-) and as I said I worry it
 came at the price of vehicle fighting ability (Eldar may give you true fits) BUT when one
 embraces the ways of "full assault" it means thei stay behind cover, approach the enemy
 quickly (while staying behind cover) and hit them will multiple assaults simultaneously (or on
 consecutive turns) - and this is not only totally respectable, and VERY effective - it is also a
 LOT of fun to play out! :-) My suggestion to you, ponder adding a couple of missle launchers
 somehow, and run with this army - go have a GREAT time! You CAN do VERY well with
 this (don't let anyone tell you different!). You've just embraced the fighting style known as the
 "monkey" in gungfu - you avoid their attacks as much as possible - then you leap into the
 closest assault possible not letting go (not for one second) until the bad guy is dead - thus the
 fighting style of the Monkey - and you with this army :-)

 Glory to the Emperor ~ Brother Edward 
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       Death company . (5 Replies). naughtyspacemarine[]. 1/24/2002 11:23 (1/24/2002 16:51) 
 Well this is the first time i have ever played as blood angels so to speak so i took a Army of
 death from the chapter approved.
 
 

 -HQ- 

 Chaplain-75 
 -Terminator Armour-25 
 -Lightning Claw(pair)-30 

 -Elites- 

 Dreadnought-119 

 Dreadnought-119 

 Terminator Squad(6)-318 
 -AssultCannon-20 
 -HeavyFlamer-10 

 -Troops- 

 Scout squad(7)-123 
 -Vetran-17 
 -Power weapon-0 

 Tacticle squad(10)-190 
 -Vetran-19 
 -Meltagun-10 
 -Powerfist-0 
 -Rhino-0 

 Tacticle squad(10)-190 
 -Vetran-19 
 -Plasmagun-6 
 -Powerfist-0 
 -Rhino-0 

 Tacticle squad(10)-190 
 -Vetran-19 
 -Meltagun-10 
 -Powerfist-0 
 -Rhino-0 
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           just one suggestion, and a few comments :-) . (4 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[].
 1/24/2002 12:21 (1/24/2002 16:51) 
 Welcome to the Chapter :-)

 Drop the terminator armor for the chaplain- he's already got an invulnerable save and two
 wounds - you can use that 25pts elsewhere :-)

 as for the rest of it - you're good on how to use it? stay behind cover - drive up and assault
 yes? :-) lacking shooting power (as this army REALLY does!) your only plan is to stay behind
 cover and massacre the bad guys in assault. What a heck of a way to learn about Blood
 Angels! :-)

 Against many blended armies (those which have some shooty and some assault elements) you
 can field a more balanced combination of things yourself (a split between assault and shooty)
 but if say you are going against a truly shooty army - you can't hope to out shoot them (like
 some IG armies can be, and some Tau armies, and some Eldar as well) there are two main
 fields of thought
 1) take one or two dedicated firing units to harass the enemy whilst the rest of your super
 assault oriented army moves up into assault range (staying behind cover the whole way mind
 you).

 2) the full assault - which is what this army is doing - you have almost no vehicle killing ability
 (the meltaguns are an opportunity fire weapon for the most part), this army is meant to engage
 the enemy in assault as quickly as possible (turns not spent assaulting are turns where they are
 shooting at you - thus bad for you). So deploy forward if you know you get first turn (some
 scenarios grant the attacker first turn so you may know this) otherwise deploy forward and
 behind cover - keep your wole army as close together as you can - you may take a turn of fire
 from the enemy but power armor should protect you from most anything that can shoot behind
 terrain, and even if you take direct fire (which is bad - try to avoid that) if you keep your
 whole army together and move forward you should be able to begin bringing units into assault
 the next turn - and then the tide should begin to swing your way :-)

 I hope this helped some, and I hope you have fun!
 Glory to the Emperor and Sanguinius ~ Brother Edward 
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               A thought . (3 Replies). naughtyspacemarine[]. 1/24/2002 12:30 (1/24/2002 16:51) 
 Well i will take the chaplain advice to mind but also realized that i can give him a jump pack
 for free so it all works out in the end for taking off his terinator armour, given to him so he can
 deep strike. Maybe a terminator hounor? Other than that you gave me wonderful ideas on
 using the Death company army that i had not thought of. You are right, the first time i went
 through the army it had no tank killing power, but also you have to realize that there are three
 powerfist in my army as well, so if they manage to make it across bye bye tanks (i hope).
 Thank you for your thoughts. 
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                   DOH! I meant to say that :-) . (2 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 1/24/2002 12:54
 (1/24/2002 16:51) 
 ++++ yeah - I totally meant to say give him a jumppack - but he pays for it though (+20pts so
 there goes your extra points!) and definately give him term honors, the extra attack is WELL
 worth it :-) consider that a Blood Angels Chaplain usually costs 180pts so this is still quite a
 bargain! :-)

 the powerfists can kill vehicles quite true - but are mainly going to wipe through people in
 assault as an overkill weapon, vet serg has base 2 attacks, plus one for charging - so that
 should be three instakills in close combat :-) drive them into the action right along with your
 assault elements - and watch the instakills begin! :-)

 happy gaming! ~ Brother Edward
 

 >> Well i will take the chaplain advice to mind but also realized that i can give him a jump
 pack for free so it all works out in the end for taking off his terinator armour, given to him so
 he can deep strike. Maybe a terminator hounor? Other than that you gave me wonderful ideas
 on using the Death company army that i had not thought of. You are right, the first time i went
 through the army it had no tank killing power, but also you have to realize that there are three
 powerfist in my army as well, so if they manage to make it across bye bye tanks (i hope).
 Thank you for your thoughts.
 
 
 
 

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                       edward please check my half of an 8000 pt game . (1 Replies). marshallrommel[].
 1/24/2002 13:51 (1/24/2002 16:51) 
 edward upcomming battle
 My 4th templars and some ultramarines vs a large force of chaos
 i know he's going with a deathwatch killteam and a full 10 man grey knights squad,also he's
 tossing in 2 full dev squads for MAXIMUM covering-fire.
 we where talking about how to go about this over a few cold ones last night and looked @
 our options
 1-it's a strongpoint attack mission with us defending
 2-the table is a nice 6x6 old d+d castle,very nice with 2 removeable floors.so the cover factor
 is not a problem,also useing bunker's for guess what?????
 3-we are both good SM commanders with about 15 years total xp
 i was doing a ruff draft and this is what i came up with
 
 

 Emperor's Champion
 Emperor's Champion (105) Master-crafted bolt pistol (0), The Black Sword (0), Artificer
 Armour (0), Iron = 105
 Halo (0), Purity seals (0), Terminator honours (0)
 = 105 Points

 Command Squad
 High Marshal (60) Power weapon (15), Storm bolter (5), Artificer Armour (20), Auspex (2),
 Frag = 123
 grenades (1), Purity seals (0), Teleport homer (5), Terminator honours (15)
 Bodyguard Sergeant (18) Bolter (0), Power Armour (0) = 18
 2 Bodyguards (36) Bolter (0), Power Armour (0) = 36
 Bodyguard (18) Lascannon (35), Power Armour (0) = 53
 Bodyguard (18) Heavy bolter (15), Power Armour (0) = 33
 Razorback (70) Twin-linked heavy bolters (0), Extra armour (5), Smoke launchers (3) = 78
 = 341 Points

 Marshal
 Marshal (45) Thunder Hammer (30), Artificer Armour (20), Bionics (10), Melta bombs (5),
 = 165
 Purity seals (0), Space Marine bike (35), Teleport homer (5), Terminator honours
 (15)
 = 165 Points

 Chaplain
 Chaplain (70) Crozius arcanum (0), Thunder Hammer (30), Artificer Armour (20), Jump
 pack = 165
 (20), Melta bombs (5), Rosarius (0), Teleport homer (5), Terminator honours (15)
 = 165 Points
 Total Points Spent on HQ: 776 Percentage of total points: 19% Number of points spent on
 Wargear: 198

 Terminator Assault Squad
 Assault Terminator Sergeant (42) Power sword (0), Storm bolter (0), Terminator Armour (0)
 = 42
 2 Assault Terminators (84) Lightning claw (pair) (0), Terminator Armour (0) = 84
 2 Assault Terminators (84) Thunder hammer & Storm shield (0), Terminator Armour (0) = 84
 = 210 Points

 Vindicare Assassin
 Vindicare Assassin (110) Exitus rifle (0), Dodge (0), Exitus pistol (0), Spy mask (0), Stealth
 suit (0) = 110
 = 110 Points

 Terminator Squad
 Terminator Sergeant (42) Power sword (0), Storm bolter (0), Terminator Armour (0) = 42
 2 Terminators (84) Power fist (0), Storm bolter (0), Terminator Armour (0) = 84
 Terminator (42) Cyclone missile launcher (20), Storm bolter (0), Terminator Armour (0) = 62
 Terminator (42) Power fist (0), Assault cannon (20), Terminator Armour (0) = 62
 = 250 Points
 

 Dreadnought
 Dreadnought (75) Missile launcher (10), Twin-linked lascannon (50), Extra armour (5),
 Searchlight = 144
 (1), Smoke launchers (3)
 = 144 Points

 Dreadnought
 Dreadnought (75) Dreadnought CC (w/Storm bolter) (0), Multi-melta (40), Extra armour (5),
 = 124
 Searchlight (1), Smoke launchers (3)
 = 124 Points
 Total Points Spent on Elite: 838 Percentage of total points: 21% Number of points spent on
 Wargear: 0

 Black Templar's Bike
 Squadron
 2 Biker Initiates (70) Power weapon (on bike) (20), Power Armour (0), Space Marine bike
 (0) = 90
 Biker Initiate (35) Bolt pistol (0), Power Armour (0), Space Marine bike (0) = 35
 = 125 Points

 Attack Bike Squadron
 Attack Bike (50) Heavy bolter (0), Space Marine bike (0) = 50
 = 50 Points

 Black Templar's Assault
 Squad
 3 Assault Initiates (75) Storm shield & Close combat weapon (9), Power Armour (0),
 Blind/Smoke = 114
 Grenades (12), Frag grenades (0), Jump pack (0), Melta bombs (12), Purity seals
 (6)
 Assault Initiate (25) Storm shield & Power weapon (13), Power Armour (0), Blind/Smoke
 Grenades = 48
 (4), Frag grenades (0), Jump pack (0), Melta bombs (4), Purity seals (2)
 Assault Initiate (25) Storm shield & Power fist (18), Power Armour (0), Blind/Smoke
 Grenades (4), = 53
 Frag grenades (0), Jump pack (0), Melta bombs (4), Purity seals (2)
 = 215 Points

 Land Speeder Squadron
 2 Land Speeders (100) Multi-melta (30) = 130
 = 130 Points
 Total Points Spent on Fast Attack: 520 Percentage of total points: 13% Number of points
 spent on Wargear: 0

 Black Templars Squad
 9 Initiates (135) Bolt pistol & Close combat weapon (0), Power Armour (0) = 135
 Initiate (15) Bolt pistol & Power weapon (10), Power Armour (0) = 25
 Rhino (50) Storm bolter (0), Extra armour (5) = 55
 = 215 Points

 Black Templars Squad
 9 Initiates (135) Bolt pistol & Close combat weapon (0), Power Armour (0) = 135
 Initiate (15) Bolt pistol & Power fist (15), Power Armour (0) = 30
 4 Neophytes (44) Bolt pistol & Close combat weapon (0), Scout Armour (0) = 44
 = 209 Points
 

 Black Templars Squad
 (w/Bolter
 4 Initiate (w/Bolter)s (60) Bolter (0), Power Armour (0) = 60
 Initiate (w/Bolter) (15) Lascannon (15), Power Armour (0) = 30
 Initiate (w/Bolter) (15) Plasma gun (6), Power Armour (0) = 21
 Razorback (70) Twin-linked lascannon (20), Extra armour (5), Smoke launchers (3) = 98
 = 209 Points

 Black Templars Squad
 (w/Bolter
 4 Initiate (w/Bolter)s (60) Bolter (0), Power Armour (0) = 60
 Initiate (w/Bolter) (15) Meltagun (10), Power Armour (0) = 25
 Initiate (w/Bolter) (15) Multi-melta (15), Power Armour (0) = 30
 = 115 Points

 Black Templars Squad
 (w/Bolter
 4 Initiate (w/Bolter)s (60) Bolter (0), Power Armour (0) = 60
 Initiate (w/Bolter) (15) Plasma cannon (15), Power Armour (0) = 30
 Initiate (w/Bolter) (15) Plasma gun (6), Power Armour (0) = 21
 = 111 Points
 Total Points Spent on Troops: 859 Percentage of total points: 21% Number of points spent
 on Wargear: 0

 Land Raider
 Land Raider (250) Twin-linked heavy bolters (0), Twin-linked lascannon (left) (0),
 Twin-linked = 258
 lascannon (right) (0), Extra armour (5), Smoke launchers (3)
 = 258 Points

 Vindicator
 Vindicator (120) Demolisher cannon (0), Storm bolter (0), Extra armour (5), Pintle-mounted
 storm = 138
 bolter (10), Smoke launchers (3)
 = 138 Points

 Land Raider Crusader
 Land Raider Crusader (255) 'Hurricane' bolter sponsons (0), Multi-melta (0), Twin-linked
 assault cannon (0), = 268
 Extra armour (0), Frag assault launcher (0), Pintle-mounted storm bolter (10),
 Smoke launchers (3)
 = 268 Points

 Land Raider Crusader
 Land Raider Crusader (255) 'Hurricane' bolter sponsons (0), Multi-melta (0), Twin-linked
 assault cannon (0), = 268
 Extra armour (0), Frag assault launcher (0), Pintle-mounted storm bolter (10),
 Smoke launchers (3)
 = 268 Points

 Whirlwind
 Whirlwind (75) Whirlwind M. Launcher (0) = 75
 = 75 Points
 Total Points Spent on Heavy Support: 1007 Percentage of total points: 25% Number of
 points spent on Wargear: 0
 

 HQ Points: 776
 Elite Points: 838
 Fast Attack Points: 520
 Troop Points: 859
 Heavy Support Points: 1007
 Total Points: 4000 Total Wargear points: 198 Total Percentage of Wargear vs Total points:
 5%

 Note: Failure to turn an army list into the Tournament Organizer can result in penalties. Please
 use this format. 
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                           4000pt battle eh? WONDERFUL! :-) now let's see.... . (0 Replies).
 BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 1/24/2002 16:51 (1/24/2002 16:51) 
 Hello there!

 Well let's see - I had a glance at your list (that is a LOT of Black Tempar army there!) but one
 thought did strike me quickly - you're defending a strongpoint - this is one of those freak
 situations where you get to stand your ground for once - shoot a LOT and then counter
 assault when they get too close.

 Now you didn't say what kind of chaos army you're fighting - but many chaos armies like to
 use Space Marines so you'll be facing armor save. Once upon a time I saw a neat post written
 by a numbers wonk who had worked out the math and figured out that lascannons will drop
 more Space Marines over time than you will if you take things like heavy bolters (I had
 thought that more shots would have better chances but the math didn't hold up apparently) so
 try to take some lascannons along for extra punch (I almost said "in your devastators squads"
 but I caught myself :-) anywho - So since you'll be sitting still you might want to reconsider
 some of your fast vehicles - the bikes perhaps - maybe even the landraiders - the termies can
 sit where they are behind your front line as a promise of death to whoever is dumb enough to
 assault your front line.

 Other than that though there's not much I feel I can say - the battle is so huge and the army
 composition of your enemy is unknown so beyond saying "dig in and shoot" I don't know
 much else to say. Have the Ultrmarines bring all the shooty power they can, and so should you
 - but of the two SpaceMarine armies you are the assault specialist so it falls to you to take
 over the responsibility of the counterassault forces - make sure you have a well focused
 assault (when you do launch it) but this shouldn't happen until mid way through the game -
 your long range weapons should begin killing their transports immediately (naturally I'm not
 saying this will be possible I'm saying this is what you'll want to do :-) but basically fight a
 defensive fight (an assault army on the defensive is actually a VERY powerful force!) but sit
 and shoot them as they come toward you (much like fighting nids only these guys will have
 power armor so bring bigger weapons!) then when the enemy is close you need to launch a
 focused and well supported assault drive right into their lead assault wave - if you have assault
 termies in there they will be able to hold the line - while the rest of your people (and the
 ultramarines) pour fire into the units surrounding the assault which should (if things go well)
 allow your assault forces to come back to your line and prepare for the next enemy wave (if
 they have the ability to muster another assault thrust that is - your counterassault may decide
 the battle right there, or it may be just a good beginning :-)

 That's it for me though - it's a pleasure to have discussed this - I really enjoy the idea of
 different chapters working together to compliment each other. Let the Ultramarine focus on
 shooting - assure him that you will take care of the counter assault - and between the two of
 you you should have everything pretty well in hand! :-)

 I hope you'll be able to prepare a short report that tells the basics of the fight - each battle
 we're able to hear of brings us that much more wisdom! :-)

 I look forward to hearing how this gos for you!
 Glory to the Emperor and Sanguinius ~ Brother Edward

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       For What it's Worth.... . (0 Replies). GamePunk26[ScottyVegas26@msn.com]. 1/24/2002 13:30
 (1/24/2002 13:30) 
 Here is my Army List. In case anyone cares.

 Wehrmacht Alexandre
 Flesh Tearers

 Chaplain Alexandre-236 pts.
 Term. Honours,Jump Pack,M.C. Crozius,Melta Bombs,Bolt Pist.

 Death Co.-Free
 Jump Packs

 Tac. Squad Athos-246 pts.
 9 men w/Veteran,Power Weapon,Missle Launcher,Plasma Gun,Rhino

 Tac. Squad Aramis-246 pts.
 9 men w/Veteran,Power Weapon,Missle Launcher,Plasma Gun,Rhino

 Tac. Squad Porthos-250 pts.
 9 men w/Veteran,Power Weapon,Missle Launcher,Meltagun,Rhino

 Assault Squad d'Artagnan-265 pts.
 9 men w/Veteran,Power Weapon,Plasma Pistol x2

 Dreadnought Faria-135 pts.
 Missle Launcher,Twin Lascannon

 Speeder Dumas-65 pts.
 Multi-melta

 Land Raider Dantes-255 pts.
 Dozer Blade

 Total=1698

 If you couldn't tell, I'm a big Alexandre Dumas fan.
 For the Emperor and Sanguinius, Death, DEATH!
 GamePunk26 
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       Thanks Blood Angels . (6 Replies). ironork[]. 1/24/2002 14:15 (1/25/2002 9:25) 
 Alright a friend of mine told me that this post had valuable information for assault based armies
 like ours (nids,orks). And let me tell you BA Brother Edward and all your fellow BA
 Brothers. THANK YOU! Edward, you have put it so simply here, that even a child could
 understand and be successful. 

 Da boyz sends yoos guyz dere highest regards!
 Yoos guyz are alright for oomans.

 ironork 
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           :-) . (5 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 1/24/2002 16:58 (1/25/2002 9:25) 
 On behalf of the Blood Angels players (and all who contributed here!), you are welcome :-)

 It has been a distinct privilege to have been a part of so many people coming together to share
 their knowledge here, I am sure that many have benefitted from this Seminar :-) The sad news
 is that after 30days the posts begin disappearing, and eventually this thread will no longer be
 here, however I have maintained a copy of all the messages in this thread, and will be
 reposting this entire thread (and a few other similarly informative tactical threads) on my 40k
 website in a few weeks - so we can all have a library of information that we can all go wade
 through when we need answers to difficult 40k situations... it's funny, the name of my website
 is Ex Libris Mortis" which roughly translates into "The Library of Death" and apparently when
 I post all of this information there for people to come and read if they wish - it will have indeed
 become exactly that :-)

 happy gaming!
 Glory to the Emperor and Sanguinius ~ Brother Edward

 Ex Libris Mortis
 http://www.dragonrealm.com/exlibrismortis
 
 

 >> Alright a friend of mine told me that this post had valuable information for assault based
 armies like ours (nids,orks). And let me tell you BA Brother Edward and all your fellow BA
 Brothers. THANK YOU! Edward, you have put it so simply here, that even a child could
 understand and be successful. 
 >> 
 >> Da boyz sends yoos guyz dere highest regards!
 >> Yoos guyz are alright for oomans.
 >> 
 >> ironork 
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               Best well balanced Blood Angels Tactic for tournaments . (3 Replies). Romanov[]. 1/25/2002
 0:17 (1/25/2002 9:25) 
 Hiya all,

 I was just wondering what you guys would think would be the best all balanced tactic for use
 with Blood Angels in tournaments. 

 Like, a tactic that would overwhelm te majority of races in 40k.

 My opinion would be to use a spearhead attack. Have all your men able to move at least
 12-18" per turn. and push right into the center of the opponents forces into assault in the 1st
 or 2nd turn. 

 Or to provide covering fire you could have some tanks (predator Annihilator) at the back
 removing any dangerous vehicles of the opponent.

 I got the spearhead idea from the tactic the Germans used on the Russians in world war two.

 What do you people think? What tactics for tournaments (using Blood Angels) do you have?

 - Romanov.

 PS. *bump* 
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                   seasons change - so no one tactic will address it all... . (0 Replies).
 BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 1/25/2002 1:41 (1/25/2002 1:41) 
 Good evening,

 An emphasis on mobile assault, with a third of the army dedicated to long range anti vehicle
 firing is a good place to start I think. The army must move in a coordinated fashion when it
 does move - no sense in allowing the enemy to fire on our units unnecesarily so it's assumed
 our units will be in cover if at all possible, else using vehicles to help screen them - or lastly
 screening units (ugh). Something along the lines of maybe two mounted tac squads, a
 Chaplain/DC w/jumppacks, an assault squad w/jumppacks - and perhaps a couple of
 devastator squads in razprbacks - each with your personal choice of anti vehicle killing
 weapons - now such an army is likely right up at 2000pts, but it gives an interesting blend of
 mobility, survivability (lots of bodies) and firepower (especially the devastator squads). In
 most situations the firepower is to move forward into good firing position and fire at the enemy
 until taken out - this fire is intended to support the advance of the assault troops. A nasty trick
 one can employ is to use other units to screen the devastators, but we can talk about that
 another day. For now the basic assault - devastators take up firing positions and begin hitting
 the enemy - the assault units move forward into their assault positions - clearly the devastators
 will take some fire but that's part of their job at the moment - for the killing blow from your
 army will be when the assault lands and begins breaking things - the fire should then drastically
 lighten on the devastators - who can maintain firing on any unengaged enemy units. This is one
 scenario.

 Another is of a more defensive situation - tournaments may have you play a more defensive
 role - we must be ready to accept this and be capable of standing and defending - of laying
 down a solid curtain of fire (something of a challenge for we assault happy Blood Angels) and
 then as the enemy approaches close enough take the opportunity to land a counter assault as
 they come toward our position. Timing is EVERYTHING in this, and you must be very
 careful not to counterassault half heartedly - for an aggressive enemy will take advantage of
 this vis sweeping assaults (which will let you shoot at them BUT does pin one of your units
 from moving the next turn), or worse consolidating into your lines.

 A mobile army can stand still - but a foot slogging army cannot suddenly become mobile.
 Mobility is critical when facing certain enemies (MANY of our enemies I'll say - though for
 different reasons). Against Eldar we need to move behind cover - keeping together so that
 whatever they send around the corner to shoot at us WILL in turn be killed by some of our
 remaining units on our next turn (very much a chess game here). Against other armies our
 mobility is needed to throw our armies into the assault - perhaps the ground is odd and we're
 further away than we'd like to be - or perhaps there is little intervening terrain - either way we
 need the mobility to get our assault people online - and it is important to back up the primary
 assault units (the Chaplin/DC and assault squad) with support assaults from the tac squads -
 now I know from bitter experience that often one of the rhinos will die in the attempt -
 however this is still fine for the rhino got a large tac squad up into the middle of things where
 they can now shoot at all kinds of targets - and (if close enough) they may still be able to
 reach the melee as a second wave assault.

 There is more I could prattle about - always more, but it's late and I've likely already said too
 much :-)

 Mobility (for it is vital for both offense and defensive maneuvers), and a portion of long range
 shooting power (tac squads count as shooting power for massed bolter fire can be a beautiful
 thing) - and naturally assault - and no one does assault better than we do - which is why we
 can dare to go somewhat light in the assault area at times - because we are that good.

 So take some transports, take some vehicle killing stuff and some infantry killing stuff - try to
 blend those weapons (instead of having one dedicated anti tank unit and one dedicated anti
 personelle unit) blend the firepower so that every unit has a good chance of hurting (even if
 only a little) whatever it gets a shot at. Everyone knows we're going to rule in assault - for us
 the challenge is getting there intact, and trying to kill things while get get into assault.

 Be bold, bloody, and resolute my brothers.

 Glory to the Emperor and Sanguinius ~ Brother Edward 
 
 
 

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                   RE: Best well balanced Blood Angels Tactic for tournaments . (1 Replies). Raphaelus[].
 1/25/2002 1:53 (1/25/2002 9:25) 
 a spearhead tactic is a beautiful thing to watch but ive rarely seen it actually work as planned
 due to one small errorin execution. think of the enemy force in three segments set up opposite
 of you. we have the left centre and right components. if you attack the enemy in the centre
 then from a firing and assault point of view, all three segments can hit your spear. if you attack
 on the left, or the right, then only two can. now this is silly you say, people attack in the centre
 all the time. this is true, the way to *successfully* attack the centre is to distract forces to
 make him move men out of his centre.
 "For should the enemy strengthen his centre, 
 he will weaken his flanks; should he strengthen his flanks,
 he will weaken his centre; should he strengthen his left,
 he will weaken his right; should he strengthen his right,
 he will weaken his left.
 If he sends reinforcements everywhere, he will everywhere be weak"
 napoleon did it best. attack with forces on the left or right and make it a serious enough threat
 that your opponent will move men out of his centre to reinforce his flanks. then split him in the
 middle with your spearhead.

 'you want me to teleport where??'
 the sanguinus comedy hour 
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                       "You want me to teleport where?" - Sanguinius Comedy hour - hahahahaha!!! :-) . (0
 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 1/25/2002 9:25 (1/25/2002 9:25) 
 'you want me to teleport where??'
 >> the sanguinus comedy hour

 Now THAT was funny! :-)

 I'm always happy to see a student of history! Though be very careful to get too carried away
 with the application of such grande lessons here in the game, 40k isn't like "Go". I can have a
 rock hard center, and I can have mobile shooty wings which can project power in any number
 of places. that things like this are possible is one of the things which keeps 40k interesting :-) 

 From what I can tell - 40k is more like chess - a careful game of thinking ahead on a board
 filled with many special purpose units, a number of "fodder" units, and a few very powerful
 units :-)

 Wow - too much deep thinking before breakfast! I - I think I need my chocolate milk now!

 Glory to the Emperor and Sanguinius ~ Brother Edward

 PS. 'you want me to teleport where??'
 >> the sanguinus comedy hour oh man, I'm makin a banner of that right now.... it's just
 endlessly funny to me :-)
 

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               What a wonderful Idea, you must inform us immediately when it is finished (NT) . (0
 Replies). SirServo[]. 1/25/2002 1:25 (1/25/2002 1:25) 
 No Text 
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       Updated Army list...Please review . (1 Replies). SirServo[]. 1/25/2002 1:50 (1/25/2002 9:11) 
 Here is my updated Mobile Blood Angel list. What do you guys think?

 HQ: 11%

 Chaplain - Jump Pack, C.A., Rosarious
 Death Company - Jump Pack, C.C.Weapon, B.Pistol
 Total = 201

 Elites: 18%

 9x Vet. Squad - C.C.Weapons, B.Pistol, T.Honours
 1x Vet. Sergeant - Pair Lightning Claws
 Total = 312 (Mounted in Land Raider)

 Troops: 43%

 9x Tatical Squad - Bolters, Melta Gun
 1x Vet. Sergeant - Power First, B.Pistol
 1x Rhino - Hunter-Killer Missle
 Total = 280

 9x Tatical Squad - Bolters, Flamer
 1x Vet. Sergeant - C.C.Weapon, B.Pistol
 1x Rhino - Hunter-Killer Missle
 Total = 251

 5x Tatical Squad - Bolters, Missle Launcher
 1x Sergeant - C.C.Weapon, B.Pistol
 1x Razorback - Las and Twin Plasmagun
 Total = 206

 Fast Attack: 11%

 4x Bikes - Twin Bolters, 2x Meltaguns
 1x Sergeant - Twin Bolters, B.Pistol
 Total = 195

 Heavy Support: 14%

 Landraider - Lascannons all around
 Total = 250

 Equipment: 2%

 Army Total = 1695

 Well guys what do you think? I took Edwards comment to consideration and I added a little
 more kick with the Landriader instead of the crusaider. I exchaned the Termies with Lightning
 claws for the Vet. Squad., gave a Vet. Sergeant a Power fist and upgraded the razor back to
 a lascannon, with linked Plasmaguns.

 Bassically Chaplain and Death company follow the Landraider and one rhino up the gut.
 Razor back provides a mobile fire support, and the bikes along with the second rhino can go
 where they are needed. I tried to make it pretty flexible and manuverable. 

 Any suggestions, comments, or concerns would be helpful,
 Sir Servo 
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           either of your lists will do fine - I was trying to say it's how you use them :-) . (0 Replies).
 BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 1/25/2002 9:11 (1/25/2002 9:11) 
 Good morning Sir Servo!

 Personally I'm going to miss your first list, I thought it had character :-) But this list looks more
 like a "tournament" list if that makes you feel better :-)

 Only one thing I see here where I can give you added punch and save you ten points:

 9x Tatical Squad - Bolters, Melta Gun
 1x Vet. Sergeant - Power First, B.Pistol
 1x Rhino - Hunter-Killer Missle
 Total = 280

 9x Tatical Squad - Bolters, Flamer
 1x Vet. Sergeant - C.C.Weapon, B.Pistol
 1x Rhino - Hunter-Killer Missle
 Total = 251

 hunter killers?? 15 pts each? single shot weapons? in squads where you can have a missile
 launcher with unlimited shots?
 I say give'em missle launchers and pronounce the list finished - go have some hot cocoa :-)

 Also - I hope that you will use your FIRST list in SEVERAL of your local games and learn
 how it handles - it really is a treat to go the full assault way - it can work just fine - as long as
 you know that's what you're doing and don't try to out shoot people :-)

 I think this list will be a tad more forgiving for you, will give you a tad more shooting power -
 but I still hope to hear you talk about how both lists do before summer hits :-)

 happy gaming!
 Glory to the Emperor ~ Brother Edward
 
 

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       No Subject . (0 Replies). gameboydb[]. 1/25/2002 3:05 (1/25/2002 3:05) 
 First of all, nice post Brother Edward. Very informative.

 As for other Blood Angel army rosters, my army tends to change from game to game, player
 to player (I like a little variety). Although, my latest "all purpose" 1500 pt army roster consists
 of the following:

 Chaplain
 jump pack
 terminator honours
 master crafted crosius
 plasma pistol
 frag grenades
 I treat the Death Company as a regular assault squad and the chaplain is the upgraded
 sergeant figure.

 2 5-man Tactical Squads
 plasma gun
 lascannon
 veteran sergeant
 These provide a firebase to help support the assault units as well as feeding the Death
 Company.

 2 8-man Tactical Squads
 flamer
 missile launcher
 veteran sergeant with lightning claws
 rhino with extra armor and smoke launchers
 These are my long range reconnaissance units, jacks of all trades but masters of none. They
 go forward to tie up units, secure objectives, lay supporting fire...just very flexible units. I
 know some people may wonder why put a heavy weapon in such a unit, but I can't tell you
 how many times the day was saved when I needed to take out a pursuing rhino or put that last
 wound on a Wraithlord from halfway across the board.

 2 Attack Bikes in a squadron (heavy bolters)
 Nice, mobile anti-infantry unit.

 3 Land Speeders in a squadron (heavy bolters)
 Good when combined with the Attack Bikes, and nice for zipping off hunting for hiding
 basilisks or taking table quarters.

 Predator Tank
 twin-linked lascannon turret
 heavy bolter sponsons
 searchlight
 Sometimes that 13 front armor is just enough to give someone a headache.

 Dreadnought
 twin-linked lascannon
 missile launcher
 For much needed fire support.

 I try to run them as close as possible as a basic marine force. From my perspective, if a
 Tactical unit was meant to be used as an assault unit then they would be given close combat
 weapons instead of bolters. Their charge bonus is nice, but only on a charge. After that you're
 stuck in as basic marines. As Brother Edward said, a well coordinated attack is essential. I
 don't normally field 2 HQs, even at 2,000 pts. I have seen what carnage can be wrought with
 a Death Company going in to tie up a unit then have a Sanguinary High Priest with his Honor
 Guard run up in a rhino, all with power weapons, to finish off the fight; but the people I
 regularly play just love to bitch about the Blood Angels, so I keep it toned down so they can
 have their fun, too.
 There is one tactic I like to do: use vehicles as mobile walls. We play that vehicles stay on the
 table when destroyed (except a "6" on the penetration table). What fun it is then to run a rhino
 up in front of a Dark Reaper squad and just park it there, forcing them to move around to get
 a clear shot. Or using a rhino to seal off a vital firing lane or escape/assault route. More than
 once I've used the Predator Tank to run pell mell up to a shooty army with the DC behind it,
 forgoing shooting to ensure the DC got there intact (like I said, sometimes that 13 front armor
 is just enough).

 Well, enough from me. If I may quote from KODT to share a sentiment, "May all your hits be
 crits."

 -gameboydb 
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       my "maybe" 1500pts . (0 Replies). pepper[]. 1/25/2002 7:28 (1/25/2002 7:28) 
 Librarian Malfeas - artificer armour, plasma pistol, pwr swrd, jump pack = 170

 Chaplain Frost - bolt pistol, bionics = 191

 Honor Guard "Vincenze" (5 marines) - vet sgt, 2 plasma pistols, 5 pwr wpns, jump packs,
 terminator honors = 262

 Terminator squad Lundgren (6 marines) - chain fist, assault cannon = 277

 Dreadnought "Andronicus" - assault cannon = 105

 Dreadnought "Stelios" - Furioso type - 95

 Tactical squad "Russel" (6 marines) - vet sgt, hvy bolter, plasma gun = 116

 Tactical squad "Wierzbaski" (6 marines) - vet sgt, missile launcher, plasma gun = 121

 Tactical squad "Durante" (5 marines) - vet sgt, missile launcher, plasma gun = 106

 Scout squad "Apone" (5 marines) - vet sgt, hvy bolter, sniper rifle, combat shotgun = 98

 For a grand total of - 1493 (i think)

 Tactics are very simple - Librarian Malfeas and his honor guard, and Chaplain Frost and his
 screaming hordes move forward as quickly as possible to assault the enemy. Their path is
 cleared by the guns of Terminator squad Lundgren and Dreadnought "Andronicus". Death
 company is supported up close and personal by Dreadnought "Stelios". The tactical squads
 and the scout squads are to move to fire positions of most effect (the scout squad should
 really all ready be there).

 The idea is to take out as many of the opposition as possible before the assault troops hit the
 line. There may not appear to be many of them, but the librarian can take down an entire
 squad by himself, and Death company just don't die....

 It hasn't been combat tested yet...to 1500 pts.....only to 1000 pts. 
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       No Subject . (1 Replies). mempheston[]. 1/25/2002 7:36 (1/25/2002 9:01) 
 My Blood Angels army is 6937pts.
 

 Is that too big? 
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           ain't big enough, ya got pics? :-) (NT) . (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 1/25/2002 9:01
 (1/25/2002 9:01) 
 No Text 
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       Some thoughts... . (0 Replies). Glaze[]. 1/25/2002 8:35 (1/25/2002 8:35) 
 Man, this thread is getting long.....

 As you guys may or may not know I am just starting a BA army. The fist set of models that I
 wanted to get together was my death company. I plan to have my DC equipped with jetpacks
 so I was going to buy 2 assault marine packs. $50 OUCH! Instead, I bought a space wolf
 tactical squad and the 10 jetpack accessory pack. $37 much better. Also, it comes with a
 meltagun and 2 power weapons. The actual contents are a regular marine tactical squad with a
 whole extra spruce added for the space wolf accessories. So, if you need a CCW and BP
 squad, that would be my recommendation. Just thought, I would share......

 Just a little question on tactics. Other then assault weapons and melta bombs why take ANY
 heavy weapons at all? Wouldn’t the points be better spent on more tac squads? I have played
 regular codex marines where heavy weapons play an important role but in an assault army,
 why bother? 

 Also many people say that the 2 ccw dread is too slow moving at 6”, but on a regular 4x4
 board starting at the 12” line from your back line he is assaulting enemy territory by turn 3.
 Worried about him being blasted? Is your enemy going to shoot the dread or the 4 rhinos, and
 assault squads racing toward him?

 Anyway, just a few thoughts from a player who has never played BA before. First games this
 weekend woo hoo.

 Peace.... 
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       Dreadnoughts . (0 Replies). billypig[]. 1/25/2002 9:35 (1/25/2002 9:35) 
 Like the article as it should give newcomers a guide to how to play Blood Angels which is
 generally to continue to refine around a solid core of figures.

 Myself I generally play with 1500 point armies as this allows a reasonable length game for me
 and my mates and you can generally fit two into a day. 1500 points also limits a BA army to
 make things that little bit more difficult.

 With that here is my general army as it is now.

 General with iron Halo, power sword, bp, jump pack
 Chaplain with death company, jump packed
 2-3 scout/tactical squads. I'm going for scouts at the moment to worry the opposition early on
 while my army moves into place in the cover. It's even more amusing when people try to
 ignore them and they charge in with a vet sarge.
 Land Raider with 5 assault terminators. With the (rightly) beefed up rules for Land Raiders
 and Terminators this double whammy often scares the opposition so much they ignore my
 death company and general. Also the Land Raider has the shooty elements of a devastator
 squad without any of the worries about it moving which brings me on to.
 Dreadnoughts, 2 Furioso + 1 Multimelta/lascannon dread. Hard as nails, move and shoot,
 great in hth. For variations I sometimes get more shooty dreads with assault cannons.
 2 attack bikes with multi meltas. Devastating in close support of either the land raider or,
 preferably, the DC/chaplain/general assault to take out the armour. I prefer bike to skimmers
 as they assault well and really aren't as vulnerable.

 I choose the two wave or two flanking manouver usually as we play with minimal cover (due
 to the grand tournament usually having minimal cover). The lack of cover means I go for only
 the one jump packed unit as there's usually only enough cover for one. The Land Raider
 attracts a lot of fire, hence the smokes, which means others get off lightly.

 The dreads are my main point though. With the Blood Angels proclivity for moving when you
 don't want them to due to the rage I find these hard hand to hand lads really get the job done
 for BA's

 Anyway comments welcome. 
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