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April 2002 Blood Angel Tactical Seminar April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar BloodAngelBrotherEdward. [14] Glory to the emperor and our sainted father sanguinus Raphaelus (4/15/2002 21:33). [14] LOL :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (4/15/2002 21:50). [14] Blood Angels are crunchy Merlonc (4/15/2002 22:27). [14] excellent points! BloodAngelBrotherEdward (4/15/2002 22:54). [14] RE: excellent points! merlonc (4/16/2002 8:45). [14] yes yes :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (4/16/2002 10:10). [14] RE: yes yes :-) norty (4/19/2002 5:20). [14] RE: Blood Angels are crunchy LibrarianJames (4/15/2002 23:18). [14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar LibrarianJames (4/15/2002 23:06). [14] RE: RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar marineboy (4/16/2002 8:13). [14] Brother Edward - Some Help Against Necrons and Tau Please Rhombur (4/16/2002 10:20). [14] some thoughts on the Necrons and the Tau.... BloodAngelBrotherEdward (4/16/2002 11:54). [14] Thank you Rhombur (4/16/2002 13:21). [14] RE: Thank you BloodAngelBrotherEdward (4/16/2002 13:24). [14] RE: some thoughts on the Necrons and the Tau.... SanguiniusBHZ (4/18/2002 11:28). [14] RE: RE: some thoughts on the Necrons and the Tau.... BloodAngelBrotherEdward (4/18/2002 20:08). [14] RE: RE: RE: some thoughts on the Necrons and the Tau.... SlickDevlin (4/23/2002 14:35). [14] RE: RE: some thoughts on the Necrons and the Tau.... silentpoet (4/19/2002 17:08). [14] RE: RE: Greetings SanguiniusBHZ (4/23/2002 14:06). [14] the board is faster these days! BloodAngelBrotherEdward (4/16/2002 15:36). [14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar oshova (4/16/2002 16:14). [14] it's good to hear from you! :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (4/16/2002 17:44). [14] An IG perspective ColChechnov (4/16/2002 16:57). [14] thank you ColChechnov! :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (4/16/2002 18:54). [14] RE: thank you ColChechnov! :-) ColChechnov (4/17/2002 0:20). [14] :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (4/17/2002 12:43). [14] RE: :-) ColChechnov (4/17/2002 13:02). [14] RE: RE: :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (4/17/2002 13:27). [14] An[other] IG perspective plxvandyk (4/19/2002 6:01). [14] 14 powerfists in a squad? echoota (4/30/2002 11:28). [14] marine dreadnoughts. to fear or not to fear? Raphaelus (4/16/2002 21:17). [14] can anyone help me with the furioso? BloodAngelBrotherEdward (4/16/2002 22:27). [14] Sure I can LibrarianJames (4/16/2002 22:39). [14] the furioso is my altime favorite modle so i kinda knwo how to use them!!! baronsmeg (4/18/2002 23:33). [14] Not just any Dreadnought Angryfred (4/21/2002 10:23). [14] A tidbit or two from the OTHER angels of death irskin (4/16/2002 23:57). [14] yeah he was a newb LibrarianJames (4/18/2002 23:09). [14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar ishop (4/17/2002 0:15). [14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar BloodAngelBrotherValionos (4/17/2002 6:55). [14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar FraterVermiis (4/17/2002 7:12). [14] :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (4/17/2002 9:26). [14] 3) Enemy tatics ...... Vivi (4/17/2002 14:17). [14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar MidKnightWraith (4/17/2002 15:29). [14] :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (4/17/2002 18:20). [14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar drakionaliok (4/17/2002 15:53). [14] :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (4/17/2002 23:32). [14] Non-BA Players Dulocke (4/18/2002 1:39). [14] :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (4/18/2002 9:17). [14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar collosotyrant (4/18/2002 2:49). [14] Thank the Emperor! SanguiniusBHZ (4/18/2002 10:42). [14] How good it is to see you! BloodAngelBrotherEdward (4/18/2002 11:47). [14] BA Army Help! (Needed) Kamikazeee (4/18/2002 22:29). [14] here you go :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (4/18/2002 23:49). [14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar penallegionscum (4/18/2002 22:55). [14] Thanks Brother Edward MarshallUbrecht (4/18/2002 23:54). [14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar FraterVermiis (4/19/2002 3:59). [14] Moriar BloodAngelBrotherEdward (4/19/2002 16:36). [14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar illpot (4/19/2002 7:47). [14] :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (4/19/2002 8:46). [14] RE: :-) illpot (4/19/2002 18:46). [14] :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (4/20/2002 23:38). [14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar lordcommanderallyd (4/19/2002 17:28). [14] scouts in a landriader? :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (4/19/2002 17:41). [14] RE: scouts in a landriader? :-) lordcommanderallyd (4/19/2002 17:48). [14] RE: scouts in a landriader? :-) lordcommanderallyd (4/20/2002 8:06). [14] :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (4/20/2002 8:19). [14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar silentpoet (4/19/2002 17:42). [14] RE: RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar illpot (4/19/2002 22:27). [14] RE: RE: RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar Jarmisroben (4/24/2002 10:51). [14] RE: RE: RE: RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar farquhar (4/24/2002 10:54). [14] RE: RE: RE: RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar farquhar (4/24/2002 10:54). [14] :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (4/20/2002 12:56). [14] Tau vs. BA SytheDeathStrike (4/20/2002 23:55). [14] RE: Tau vs. BA BloodAngelBrotherEdward (4/21/2002 0:11). [14] RE: RE: Tau vs. BA BloodAngelBrotherEdward (4/21/2002 8:20). [14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar Tarpalin (4/21/2002 0:51). [14] Greetings brother Tarpalin! BloodAngelBrotherEdward (4/21/2002 17:34). [14] Thanks! Tarpalin (4/23/2002 1:32). [14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar ambassadorlaquatus (4/21/2002 9:07). [14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar Morten (4/23/2002 6:06). [14] welcome brother Morten! BloodAngelBrotherEdward (4/23/2002 9:39). [14] Thanks! Morten (4/23/2002 12:07). [14] im new to this seminar thingy but... angelofanarchy (4/23/2002 17:04). [14] welcome! :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (4/24/2002 11:02). [14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar plasmaforge (4/23/2002 13:21). [14] :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (4/23/2002 13:34). [14] RE: Dreadnought....lots of Dreadnoughts... SanguiniusBHZ (4/23/2002 14:26). [14] ah yes - the 6 dread army.... BloodAngelBrotherEdward (4/23/2002 17:14). [14] April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar . (88 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 4/15/2002 20:58 (4/30/2002 11:28) Good evening my battle brothers! It has been three months since our last tactical seminar - it is time to hear from everyone about what's going on these days! We've got three quick & easy ways you can contribute to this tactical seminar. 1) tell us which armies are giving you the biggest challenge right now, explain a bit about what the specific problem is. 2) post one of your best BA lists, and tell us a little about how you've used it successfully! 3) commanders of "enemy" armies are welcome to post descriptions of how they fight against Blood Angels, contributions from our opponents have proven in the past to be some of the very best insights into our tactics! :-) And with that fellow battle brothers our April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar has begun! May our discussions here prove useful and interesting to everyone involved from the newest of our brothers to even the wisest veteran players! Glory to the Emperor and Sanguinius ~ Brother Edward
PS. To get things started I've posted an article I wrote a while back on general Blood Angel assault tactics which I hope you will find interesting, if you have different ways of doing things let's hear about them! This is the place to share your successful tactics with fellow Blood Angels players! ~ For those who seek knowledge, wisdom is their reward ~ A Personal Overview
The Blood Angels are an extremely powerful army (as is any Space Marine army), but even we have our difficulties, difficulties which are shared by all assault armies. The classic weakness for all assault themed 40k armies is our inherent weakness to shooting - by devoting so much of our emphasis to assault capability we're inherently vulnerable to shooty armies. There are tricks to compensating for this of course, but a well played shooty army can be a true nightmare for Blood Angels - a great example of this would be Eldar. The Eldar's ability to have strong mobile firepower (with long range and low AP) can be disasterous to an unprepared BA army. Our answer to this lies in our deployment, movement, and to some extent our unit choices. What is for certain is that the BA want to hit the Eldar with our assaults (we want to hit EVERYONE withour assaults eventually!), but against a seriously shooty army our glorious assault elements have to live long enough to reach the enemy first! The first step to succeed is to deploy behind cover (unless you KNOW you will get first turn - some scenarios grant you this), deploying behind cover saves a fair bit of immediate death to enemy firing (why expose your people to firing unless it can;t be avoided?). The second step of this process is to keep your whole group together in such a way that your army covers itself - think of it as "can everyone see everybody?". If you do this, and stay behind cover as you advance toward the Eldar positions what you've accomplished is this - any Eldar vehicle which moves around to shoot at you will most likley be destroyed in your next turn by the rest of your army who now has a clear line of sight on the fould Eldar. Sounds simplistic I know, but trust me there are plenty of practical difficulties in carrying this out for real. The third aspect is just as important as the other two, but how far you carry this is a matter of your personal taste (different situations call for different approaches), but here goes... The third aspect involves your army list - you need to go ahead and take a dedicated assault element (in my experience a full third of the army is often dedicated to assault), the seond third is often spent on mobile tac squads who have a multi-task role, they have tha flexibility to provide excellent defensive power for when your people need to sit still (for whatever reason) but their mobility allows them to keep up with your assault element and ideally they will be able to assault adjacent units to eitheror both sides of where your assault teams hit - if your tac squad transports get whacked just shy of the target it still works for you - for now you have a large tac squad right in the middle of things who can shoot all over the place, and perhaps even walk forward and still get into the assaults as a second wave.... but I still haven't come tot he really important part - the shooty power. Blood Angel armies usually lack shooty power and they really need to at least acknowledge this so they can make their plans knowing this weakness - but a clever BA commander can find it extremely useful to take about a third of their points worth of good long range shooty power (best if it is mobile). Try taking a small Devastator Squad and put them in a razorback with twin linked lascannons, take this and a speeder with multimelta (maybe two) and see how many points you have left over - ideally you've already equipped your tac squads with some vehicle killing power as well - but if your force has shooty power like this you have suddenly become MUCH more able to deter lighthearted shooting attacks on your forces, for whatever they stick out there to shoot at you (and they may kill one or two things) you've almost guaranteed that you're going to kill it the next turn. Now sure you can't maintain this exchange for long - but you don't have to, remember your army is an assault army which is constantly on the move toward the enemy (albeit behind cover) so in all liklihood you will only be on the move for one or two turns - which means this whole plan of exchanging shooty casualties will only happen for one or two turns IF the bad guys are goofy enough to send people out to their deaths.... The final stage of this should hit on your turn two or three - you've approached the enemy line, your forces are still behind cover for the most part - and this turn your movement will get you into charge range - this is the time to move your whole army at one time from behind cover into full view of the enemy and assault - your units which can move and shoot effectively need to focus on their shooting units - your assault people need to decide (depending on their strength) whether they wish to weaken the units they are about to assault (be careful you don't deny yourself the assault by killing off the models nearest you!) or if they want to spend their shooting at some other more pressing target (ideally kill off the most shooty thing you can) - the rest of it is very straightforward, your assault units get into it, your remaining shooty units continue to engage the remaining enemy shooty targets and proceed to next most pressing/available targets as long as possible. Sometimes though it's not possible to find a place where you can approach the enemy and remain behind cover the whole time until contact - try to avoid this if you can, I'm not saying use your magical powers to reshape the available cover but I AM saying make the best use of cover that you can!) so anyway, if you don't have enough cover to really protect your people then you really don't have much choice, it's likely going to force you to rush him as fast as possible - try to keep your people together (so their firing can protect each other as we discussed earlier) and also because when you move your whole group together as a whole like that it messes with the enemy shooting - think of it as "target overload", sure they can see everything - but it's not likely that they can kill everything in a turn or two, and even then you have that whole "screening units" thing going for you :-) LOTS of different tricks are possible along these lines, but this is really a last resort approach - do your best to work with the existing terrain to approach your opponent taking minimal casualties to shooting, and make them pay for coming out to shoot you :-) Wow - I've said a lot here... but these same general tactics can be applied to any shooty army (Tau, IG, Eldar, Dark Eldar) and all of them will break beneath the crushing power of your assault - IF you can get your assault elements into contact quickly, focus on minimizing your casualties to shooting through use of cover and defensive supporting fire and it will make things easier :-) There are other problem areas for BA - but death by shooty armies is one of the hardest to beat - the advice I've given here is the best I've been able to come up with after three years of playing :-) Other units which will give you difficulties will generally be the flip side of this tactic, and by that I mean most of the other problem units for BA are the most powerful enemy h2h units. these will be the enemy HQ, and elite assault troops. Consider these to be very high priority targets for your shooty units - kill dangerous vehicle first, kill dangerous h2h units as a close second priority (or a first priority if the enemy is somehow about to hit you on their next turn - and shame on you if you let them maneuver so well against you!) :-) But yes - just as your enemy wants to kill your best assault troops (and the rest of your army by the way) with shooting - so too should you be very eager to reduce their most powerful h2h units with your own shooting :-) Gun them down to the last and thnk nothing more of it :-) If your shooting can;t take them all out well you have at least tilted the odds a tad more in your direction for the moment when your assault units hit them :-) Well that's it for me. Glory to the Emperor and Sanguinius ~ Brother Edward
PS. one last thing - when you fight against assault armies, feel free to hold back - shoot them down as they come at you, and move your assault people into position so you can assault them just before they are close enough to assault you :-) Nids, Orks, World Eaters, etc fall into this category. Fighting other assault armies can be nasty for both sides - but it can be easier for you if you are flexible enough to allow yourself some quality gun time, and gun them down from afar before landing the killing blow with your assault troops :-) Glory to the Emperor and Sanguinius ~ Brother Edward Reply
[14] Glory to the emperor and our sainted father sanguinus . (1 Replies). Raphaelus[]. 4/15/2002 21:33 (4/15/2002 21:50) greetings brother and may the winged one guide your aim HQ
honour guard> 5 marines 2 w/ boltguns 1 standard with sacred shroud,
tech with signum& servo arm, priest with exsanguinator ch's with bolt
pistols
HQ
Elite
Elite
Elite
Troops
Troops
Troops
Troops
Fast Attack
Fast attack> Landspeeder Tornado, heavy flamer, multi melta Fast attack> Landspeeder Tornado, heavy flamer, multi melta Heavy Support
Heavy Support
2500pts - usual sized game assuming general battle such as tourney rules or cleanse or just a general
meeting engagement 2nd ed style - i advance the tactical squads generally
through the centre. these are backed up by the terminators, dreadnought
predator and command squad using cover and returning fire and drawing fire.
the landspeeders i generally send off to harrass tanks and roast the occassionally
poorly armoured enemy troops bunched together. the bikes are held back
to either take objectives or go shoot up some lightly armoured troops.
they are expendable (bikes and speeders), but usually very effective. i
advance the main of my troops into combat range and try to get the enemy
to commit his troops. then with my veterans and deathcompany i pick a flank
that looks vulnerable and gun the rhinos forward into combat.
the vindicator i use as something to scare enemy armour and troops into staying away from a line of advance. people dont usually come happily into line of sight of that thing. its great. i love my vindicator. the only thing i would like to get is maybe a whirlwind to try and make enemy troops move out of good positions. i have a landraider being assembled and that will give me some much needed heavy weapon strength. troopswise i would be happy with maybe another few tactical squads or some rhinos and an assault squad with jump packs. but what i have tends to do well about 60 percent of the time. my one failing tends to be heavy weapons. demolisher, two lascannons a missile launcher and four multimeltas two autocannon. not too bad, but they are split up between three different purposed forces, hence the desire for the landraider. another reason for the landraider is that it is yet another distraction. people tend to shoot at the small wall of red advancing, the command group, the dreadnought, my predator and as long as they do that (and spread their fire around) rather than at my dcompany and vets im happy. but something that can sail into the middle with armour14 and say shoot me shoot me - i want it! happy gaming to you all & brother ed - for the glory of sanguinus! its its not red, its dead 'you want me to teleport where??'
[14] LOL :-) . (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 4/15/2002 21:50 (4/15/2002 21:50) Greetings brother Raphaelus! Thanks for sharing such a great list with us! and I have to thank you again for making me laugh with "if its its not red, its dead" I think you just gave me a new banner to make :-) and this:
that just never gets old :-) Thanks for sharing your wisdom, I'm hopeful we'll have a good showing from our brothers this month! Glory to the Emperor and Sanguinius ~ Brother Edward
[14] Blood Angels are crunchy . (5 Replies). Merlonc[]. 4/15/2002 22:27 (4/19/2002 5:20) I have decimated numerous blood angels players in tournaments and friendly games. Normally I play orks or space wolves(Pantheras Legion) and I find most BA players rely way too much on assault power and have difficulty in coordinating strikes with more than one unit at a time. With orks a large mob of 30 gretchin followed by 30 slugga boyz can
soak the charge with very little problems. Then the warboss+nobz creams
the BA next turn. You can't ignore the big ork mob because of the high
volume of firepower it is putting out
Moral: Don't count on winning through assault, you need firepower to support it. With SW I try to break up his asault forces, not kill them all just slow some down so they hit in waves. Grey Hunters and blood claws are more than a match for any unit of BA except the honor guard, even if they are charged. Its those untargetable power weapons. Invariably I use long fangs to crack one or two transports and then move away. If he wants to keep the assualt force together they are slow and get shot more. My oppponents have invariably kept coming leaving the slower units behind. I have had one unit of GH with pwrFist+pwrSwrd supported by wolf lord take the charge and grind the death company into dog meat. especially when the blood claws hit next turn. Moral: coordinate your assualts, you can't aford to get bogged down
in multi-turn assualts. Your primary assault weapon is the first turn charge
+1I/S after that better equiped CC troops (SW) will butcher you.
[14] excellent points! . (3 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 4/15/2002 22:54 (4/19/2002 5:20) EXCELLENT points Merlonc! Thank you for bringing your experience here! It takes a dedicated effort to coordinate your assaults, and as we've all seen unsupported assaults are just a great way to throw away our best people, and likely giving the enemy a free move closer to us in the process! Your second point about relying too much on assault power is another excellent observation. Shooting power is a legendary weakness in Blood Angels. Given that I don't think we should ever even try to outshoot a shooty army (all of our special perks lie in assault), there is still plenty of room for firepower within a BA army - especially in the roles of anti infantry (when fighting other assault armies - to reduce their numbers), and anti vehicle (to reduce the most serious enemy threats and mobility). Thanks again Merlonc for bringing these issues to the floor! Glory to the Emperor ~ Brother Edward PS. crunchy eh? :-)
Reply
[14] RE: excellent points! . (2 Replies). merlonc[]. 4/16/2002 8:45 (4/19/2002 5:20) I would recommend any BA player take a full attack bike squadron with heavy bolters when playing orks/tryanids/tau/IG and take 2-3 multi-meta attack bikes against other power armoured or tank heavy foes. I would hesistate to take dreads as primary fire support as they die easy to anti-tank fire, bikes are better, faster and can hide behind other troops. Speeders are good too, but are more fragile in my experience. Were I to play BA I would be tempted to use the following as a standard part of my army: 3 Attack bikes w HB 150 pts
for a little over 300 pts you get serious mobile fire power.
[14] yes yes :-) . (1 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 4/16/2002 10:10
(4/19/2002 5:20) >> I would recommend any BA player take a full attack
bike squadron with heavy bolters when playing orks/tryanids/tau/IG and
take 2-3 multi-meta attack bikes against other power armoured or tank heavy
foes. I would hesistate to take dreads as primary fire support as they
die easy to anti-tank fire, bikes are better, faster and can hide behind
other troops. Speeders are good too, but are more fragile in my experience.
++++ I've got six attack bikes myself, and use them ideally in unit of three or two units of two if I have enough points :-) rarely though have I taken the full two groups of three (now THAT would be some fun mobile shooty power!) I've seen a unit of attack bikes with heavy bolters totally destroy a group of oncoming ork bikes, and they can put a serious hurt on most any infantry unit as well! the mobility of the platform is amazing (giving an additional threat when used in the anti vehicle role), and their save isn't bad at all. I dislike dreads (yes I know people will stone me) but their poor movement often keeps them back from the front of my mobile assault guys - which means if there's any terrain to speak of the dread's ability to provide useful fire support for my offensive just went down the drain (if my enemy has any brains whatsoever), I favor attack bikes, and speeders and whirlwinds (from time to time) to beef up firepower. And dreads are not the toughest machine in the universe either... I suppose I just like the survivability of tac squads with their ten wounds over most any vehicle which can be destroyed with one lucky hit (can you tell I've played against the Eldar a lot?) :-) Well that's enough useful information to give this a timely little bump :-) ~ Brother Edward Reply
[14] RE: yes yes :-) . (0 Replies). norty[]. 4/19/2002 5:20 (4/19/2002
5:20) i play against shooty dark angel and eldar a lot and i have come
up with a way of destroying them. its risky, but if the terrain is right
it can win thee game in only a few turns.
[14] RE: Blood Angels are crunchy . (0 Replies). LibrarianJames[psicombat@hotmail.com]. 4/15/2002 23:18 (4/15/2002 23:18) Good point, but a good BA player (which I am not, though) can easily overcome it. Just coordinate your assaults (like you mentioned) and use Dreads for fire support (generic Dreads with missile pods, of course) >> I have decimated numerous blood angels players in tournaments and
friendly games. Normally I play orks or space wolves(Pantheras Legion)
and I find most BA players rely way too much on assault power and have
difficulty in coordinating strikes with more than one unit at a time.
[14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar . (1 Replies). LibrarianJames[psicombat@hotmail.com]. 4/15/2002 23:06 (4/16/2002 8:13) I do not have trouble with any specififc army, though Tau are just the opposite--those Broadsides are not all that great on jumpers (which I favor over Rhinos) and everything else may as well not even be there. I have had a game w/o a Chaplain where I only got 1 Death Company guy. He took out an entire 11-man Fire Warrior squad, and I was not even rolling that lucky. Tau are soooooo easy to kill, usually. Khorne Berzerkers are different. I chew through them like popKhorne
(excuse the Khorney puns). BA rushing bonuses make them better in melee
than most any other Space Marine, including Berzks who have the normal
statline except more attacks (like Blood Claws), so I am better when I
rush. THEY (Berzks) can only rush a few at a time because I have such small
squads, so the rest of my squads just swarm up around them and beat the
snot out of them with little effort (I keep my squads near each other for
this purpose). This would not be so good except... The Berzks cost quite
a bit more, so I usually outnumber them. Raptors, who seem to always be
in a Berzk army, suffer the same probs against my fearless Death Company
("okay, I scare you and you run automatically." "no you don't, I'm fearless,
NOW DIE!"). My guys are free and theirs cost a darn lot, or so I hear.
I have never lost to a Berzk army, actually.
Dreadnoughts rule (the heavies choice, not Furiosos) because they mount great long range guns, esp. if given missile pods, which is about the only way to go because everything else can handle assault for you fine >:-) They also shoot just as well if they blow their Thirst check, which is the one deciding factor in choosing them (hmmmmmmmm... oops, my 270 point land raider just lost its ability to fire because the driver decided it would be fun to tank shock; oops, that Broadside squad has line of site now... BAMBAMBAMBAMBAMBAMBAM!!!!!) I never take squads larger than the minimum size because lots of squads give you more Death Company. I never take Devastators because a 5-man squad can cost over 200 points and loses its ability to fire totally (at least the Land Raider would have been able to fire once!) if it blows its check. I always take a Chaplain, but of course I do so why I am saying this... uh... I can't think of how to finish that sentence so I won't (lol). My current army has 3 5-man tac squads in it, each with a ccw/pistol basic sarge and a meltagunner. I will not go into detail on my whole army, but I realize the weaknesses of a CC army and have put anti-tank weapons that can move and fire (like meltas) everywhere I can, and thought I would illustrate that with those tac squads. My Chap has Melta-bombs. Well I am talking a lot so I think I will cut off here. For Sanguinius, brothers, purge the unclean!! Librarian James
[14] RE: RE: April
Blood Angels Tactical Seminar . (0 Replies). marineboy[]. 4/16/2002 8:13
(4/16/2002 8:13) bump, Sorry I was learning to much to let it get this
far from the top! Marineboy
[14] Brother Edward - Some Help Against Necrons and Tau Please . (8 Replies). Rhombur[]. 4/16/2002 10:20 (4/23/2002 14:35) Brother Edward: 1. A. I have had considerable difficulty dealing with the Tau. Specifically, my opponent uses alot of battlesuits and 1 - 2 hammerheads. My vehicles usually get shot apart by railguns before I can get them into combat. Another problem is the battlesuit's ability to fall back in the assault phase. My opponent uses this tactic similar to the Eldar "pop up attack" from the 2nd edition. Specifically, he jumps the suits from behind cover, blazes away, and then jumps behind an obstacle to avoid reprisal. 1. B. Necrons have proven very difficult (even before the new codex). First, they are tough in hand to hand. I have been able to compensate somewhat by using power fists against them. However, the most troublesome unit is a lord with a viel of shadows and a group of immortals. They are difficult to kill by shooting, and can teleport out of hand to hand. 2. My army list: HQ chaplain with bolter, rosarious, crozius arcanum, holy relic.
Troops 5 man sniper squad with 4 rifles and 1 heavy bolter 6 man tactical squad with missle launcher in Razorback with twin linked heavy bolters 6 man tactical squad with missle launcher in Razorback with lascannon and plasma guns 10 man tactical squad with flamber and missle launcher in Rhino. Heavy 1 Predator Destructor with heavy bolter sponsons, storm bolter
and h/k missle
Assault 9 man assault squad with plasma pistol. veteran sergent with power fist. Fortunata Faveat Fortis Rhombur of Ix
[14] some thoughts on the Necrons and the Tau.... . (7 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 4/16/2002 11:54 (4/23/2002 14:35) Greetings my battle brother I have seen the Necrons in action only a few times (have never fought against them personally), the key to killing them seems to be overkill weapons - If I were to take the field against them I think I'd try for a two fold approach part one would be a number of heavy weapons (much like you have here), and part two would be a couple of serious assault units with power weapons (can they get back up after being wounded with power weapons?), maybe even some poswer fists and see how that worked for me. The Tau are another very capable army and your opponent sounds like he knows exactly what he's doing. That move back in the assault phase is very much like that nasty Eldar trick we hate so much. I'm coming to think of the Tau a bit like a combination of Eldar and guard - they are mobile, and do have some good firepower (I've seen a three crisis suit team totally wipe a nine man Black Templar assault squad with firing and then move back behind cover in the assault phase (out of our line of sight - AARRGGHHH!!!). However if we can get in close with traditional methods we have a good chance of engaging them and destroying them. My methods of fighting Tau Don't run up to them - their firing is dangerous, use the same methods we use to approach eldar - make maximal use of terrain, take shooty units to use defensively (they move with you r assault units such that if an enemy comes out after you they will get their shots in - but your shooty units will take them out in your next turn (a chess like exchange which makes your opponent consider sacrificing some of his units, or holding them back - holding back is a more conservative decision which is fine because it's not always the right thing to do). Landing coordinated assaults is extremely important here, having multiople units assaulting in one small area of their line will help reduce the casualties you take from their ability to fire in your sweeeping advances (which does happen, and in fact is a frequently seen trick around here - they let the BA hit a unit (often kroot or fire warriors) and then the crisis suits and heavies position themselves for target practice when our sweeping advance comes up!). But if we've got several units assaulting we start getting into things like the Tau have to shoot through one unit to hit the others etc - standard screening tactics which give a better chance for our people to survive one more turn to assault another unit. Another important aspect of the Tau which needs to be addressed is their mobility. Much like the Eldar I'm seeing Tau armies simply shift their mobile units to one side or the other to deal with threats (a bull's head deployment is what I often see - an anchor point in the center with their dismounted infantry and mobile units on the flanks). However if we take the jump to bring in deepstriking units or perhaps even throw in some infiltrators with teleport homers we now have made the entire lay of the field a bit more uncertain (I love uncertainty, it gives your opponent a little time to imagine that his worst fears may well come true!). So my brothers I recommend we consider trying some deepstriking and teleport options to limit the more mobile Tau armies that we face. Remember that deepstriking and teleporting units really need to be brought in behind cover if possible - especially jumppack units - their mobility allows them to be a threat to the enemy even if they are behind cover or even one turn away from landing an assault - but what we don't want to see happening is our people coming in to die instantly because we brought them in right in front of the enemy guns... that's just poor planning... Patience is a virtue here - or if you prefer, think of it as mental warfare against your opponents :-) Now you've dropped more assault troops on one of their flanks (or both perhaps) and they can't quite get to you... what will you do now they ask themselves - let that worry fester in their minds for a turn :-) bwahahahaha and then land a well coordinated assault as quickly as you can manage it :-) Anyone else out there want to add to this the jump right on in! :-) Glory to the Emperor and Sanguinius ~ Brother Edward PS. between my Tau and Scott's we've got a monsterous army with two
Hammerheads and nine crisis suits (and two pathfinders as well) talk abut
mobile firepower - eeek! :-)
>> Brother Edward:
[14] Thank you . (1 Replies). Rhombur[]. 4/16/2002 13:21 (4/16/2002 13:24) Thank you Brother: I will attempt to employ your suggestions. In response to your query, a Necron warrior is destroyed permanently if the weapon's strength is double the toughness. Rhombur of Ix
[14] RE: Thank you . (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 4/16/2002
13:24 (4/16/2002 13:24) >> Thank you Brother:
+++++++ You are very welcome, I hope you will quickly find success against your opponents! There are more essays on assault doctrine housed within the "Blood Angel Tactical Library" on my site, you may wish to look through them when you have time. Glory to the Emperor and Sanguinius ~ Brother Edward
[14] RE: some thoughts on the Necrons and the Tau.... . (4 Replies). SanguiniusBHZ[Sanguinius_BHZ@hotmail.com]. 4/18/2002 11:28 (4/23/2002 14:35) Greetings my battle brothers What is this i hear about trouble with Necrons and Tau? Pah! Weak are they compared to the wonderful power of the Blood Angels Chapter! Well, admitted i have also heard some good points. Tau are very nasty. I have yet to play Necrons in the 3rd edition rules, so i know not of their strength. Tau. Love them, hate them. But you cant ignore the fact that they have S6 basic weapons with a range of 30"!! Though their AP isnt low enough to penetrate pwer armour, it can still wipe out whole squads of scouts in an instant. It can also glance the front armour on my beloved Dreadnoughts! Not to mention their heavier weapons...and all for least points then a marine....dreadful...and very nasty. Now how do you beat them? Good question, and the basic answer is CHARGE!!!!! Not recklesslt obviously, but the key to beating them is to get into close combat. Hug cover to escape the worse of Tau firepower, and aviod their Kroot allies if possible. THen blow them away with flamers and boltguns/pistols before charging!!! The death company are great for this as they can ignore injuries (from the pulse rifles at least) and are exeletent in close combat. Their chaplain is the one who racks up the most kills (i love that guy...hes so great!). Never, ever take land raiders against Tau. They WILL get destroyed, and they are too big to hide. A massive waste of points. If you have to take tanks, only take cheep ones, as it wouldnt matter as much if they are destroyed. Whirlwinds are great for this (because they can indirect fire). Dont take to many heavy weapons because it is probably a waste because of the red thirst rule, and its hard to get those annoying crisis and brodside suits anyway. Just kill those fire warriors! and take care of the suits later! I cant assure victory for you, but this might help. Remember...i have NEVER lost a battle...yet. All hail the Emperor and the noble Sanguinius!
[14] RE: RE: some thoughts on the Necrons and the Tau.... . (1 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 4/18/2002 20:08 (4/23/2002 14:35) Hello there SanguiniusBHZ! Oh my - you've never lost?!?! I've got to come see you play my friend! :-) Can you post your list so we can have a peek at your recipe for victory? :-) looking forward to hearing from you! ~ Brother Edward
[14] RE: RE: RE: some thoughts on the Necrons and the Tau.... . (0 Replies).
SlickDevlin[]. 4/23/2002 14:35 (4/23/2002 14:35) >> Hello there SanguiniusBHZ!
LMFAO Brother Edward, you are too funny! My sentiments exactly.
[14] RE: RE: some thoughts on the Necrons and the Tau.... . (0 Replies). silentpoet[]. 4/19/2002 17:08 (4/19/2002 17:08) >> Tau. Love them, hate them. But you cant ignore the fact that they have S6 basic weapons with a range of 30"!! from a tau player:
[14] RE: RE: Greetings . (0 Replies). SanguiniusBHZ[Sanguinius_BHZ@hotmail.com]. 4/23/2002 14:06 (4/23/2002 14:06) Greetings my battle brothers I have been detained for a past few days, fighting against Rebel Imperial Guard Forces supports be Tratior Space Marines. I aplogize for not attending the descusssion on friday, I was at my friend's house. You want my army list? Ok here is it (the one that i used recently)... Commander- Artificer Armour, Plasma Pistol, Power Sword, Frag grenades, Metla Bombs, Jump Pack, Iron Halo, Death Mask. Chaplain- Plasma Pistol, Frag grenades, Melta Bombs, Jump Pack, Death Mask. 5 Tactical Marines- Lascannon. 5 Scouts- 5 Terminators- Assault Cannon, Heavy Flamer. 5 Assault Marines- Dreadnought- Twin Lascannons, D.C.C weapon with Heavy Flamer. This is my 1,000 points army, though i have around 2,000 points at the moment (ive been playing 1,000 point games as part of a campaign...of which I am happy to annoce I'm winning!). I have 5 Assault Terminators and more tactical marines, scouts and assault marines. I have 1 flamer and 1 meltagun in my tactical squads, though I have no more heavy weapons! My opponants had tanks, lots of tanks in fact, but I still managed to pull a draw after being reduced to a single squad (my 'ally' used me as a human shield!!!)! One of my opponants was cheating too because he pre-measured with his baslisk when he thought I wasnt looking. I did some serious damage in Close Combat though, with my Chaplain killing 5 terminators in 1 turn!!! Tell me what you think I need to make my victories more convincing please. Emperor Protects.
[14] the board is faster these days! . (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 4/16/2002 15:36 (4/16/2002 15:36) My brothers, The GW board is much faster now than in times past, we'll have to learn to scan the first few pages of the forum to look for our Blood Angel brothers in need rather than just the first page or two as in times past! Let the seminar continue now ~ Brother Edward
Reply
[14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar . (1 Replies). oshova[]. 4/16/2002 16:14 (4/16/2002 17:44) >> 3) commanders of "enemy" armies are welcome to post descriptions of how they fight against Blood Angels, contributions from our opponents have proven in the past to be some of the very best insights into our tactics! :-) Weill ,here the tuppenceworth of an eldar player i have only played against BA a couple of times, so this may not work in all situations. Forget moving about. Have as many Bright lances, starcannons and dark reapoers as you can. Kill the transports with the lances and then mop up with the starcannons and reapers. If your feeling lucky, go for the throat and throw in some banshees, but this will only work about 40% of the time due to the high toughness. They're the best against termies because of the low unit size. Hopw this is of use to any who need it bear in mind this is from the eldar P.O.V. ;)
[14] it's good to hear
from you! :-) . (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 4/16/2002 17:44
(4/16/2002 17:44)
+++++++ hello there oshova! Thank you for sharing your insights! Interesting that you promote not moving - the ability of eldar to move and shoot well is actually one of the things that challenges me the most about them! With static Eldar units I can set up a fairly standard sceening formation (if no terrain is handy) and (hopefully!) begin landing my assaults before too much damage is accumulated among my assault people :-) Though if there is a lot of ground to cover I think we can all imagine the horrific effect that concentrated Eldar fire can have on marines! :-) oh well - standard "stay behind cover as long as possible", assault with multiple units when they are all close enough is what I'd go with for an eldar army that had chosen to go with a static defense - another special danger here would be the risks with sweeping advances (in the face of many eldar shooty units), all the more important to land multiple assault units into their assaults simultaneously in this situation methinks! :-) any other ideas on this my brothers! thanks again go out to oshova for sharing his insights with us here
today! ~ Brother Edward
[14] An IG perspective . (7 Replies). ColChechnov[]. 4/16/2002 16:57 (4/30/2002 11:28) Greetings Blood Angel Edward, This is coming from the perspective of a player that takes on Blood Angels in about 1/2 of his games. I play IG, but I've also watched my Sons' Chaos and Eldar take them on a few times. Yes, I know I'm a traitor to the IG cause, but I'm always a proponent of well-played games and good tactical threads, so I think I'm following a "higher purpose" (of course, this is what all traitors think, but I digress). Play a balanced army. There are 2 main reasons for this. 1. If you regularly field the legendary "Max DC" army consisting of a Force Commander, 4 Scout squads with max sniper rifles and vet sergeants, Chaplain, and 3 maxed out jump-pack assault squads, you will have a force entirely in jump-packs or able to infiltrate. If enough of your troops have powerfists for AT work, you will probably win nearly all of your battles (especially on small boards), but you will find yourself short of opponents. The BA can be tricked out to take advantage of their strengths better than almost any other army and playing them becomes rather 1 dimensional and boring. A 500 point Eldar army with 3 wraithlords will defeat almost any army it's size also, but isn't the main purpose of playing to have a fun, dynamic game? 2. You don't need to press the envelope of the rules in order to win. A good BA commander (like my usual opponent) can make hash of most enemies with a balanced non-cheezy force. This gives your opponent absolutely no excuse for his devastating loss, and makes your victory that much more sweet This army is also better suited for those times you simply have to defend. A few quick points I've noticed. Do not let heavy Ordnance hit your death company! As IG, my entire focus for the first 2 turns is getting as many templates onto your DC as possible. A battlecannon hits dead-on 1/3 of the time, and about 1/3 of the time it scatters just as good as a direct hit. Its strength of 8 wounds DC on a 2+, no armor save is allowed, characters are instant killed, and the "back from the dead" 4+ save can't be used either. I regularly take out 5 DC at a time, with 2-3 battlecannons or earthshakers in my army, any exposed DC will suffer. Allowing them to be shot like this allows their special abilities to be wasted. So this means you have to take out my tanks. I think your best AT weapons are LC armed devastators or a Predator with LC sponsons and a twin-linked LC in the turret. That predator will average about 2 lascannon hits a turn. Each hit has about a 1/3 chance of preventing the Leman Russ from firing next turn and about a 1/9 chance of actually destroying it. Putting the predator behind cover is nice, but it is far more important that it, or the devastators, have a good field of fire. At the very worse, I may shoot at your predator or devastators to eliminate the threat to my tanks. If so you should be happy, that firing sharply cuts down on the amount of firepower I can direct onto your DC or assault squads, and if those guys get to me, I'm dead. Every good IG commander has a "counter-charge" squad. These HTH specialists (by IG standards) charge into already existing melee's. The combination of IG numbers from the original squad and 14 powerfist attacks (in my counter-charge unit anyway) can often win the combat. These guys are usually mounted in a Chimera; take it out with your long-range firepower and then shoot up the squad or assault it. You will make short work of them before their powerfists can be used. BA Terminators with lightning claws are outstanding if used properly. A Landraider with extra armor is almost unstoppable. When the termies charge, their +1A allows them to attack nearly any opponent first. The +1 st, combined with the re-roll to wound and the power weapon effect, wipes out most opponents and if you kill all those within 2", the others don't get to strike back. I've watched these guys annihilate an entire unit of Khorne Berzerkers led by a Mighty champion, who didn't even get the chance to fight back. Awesome. Along with the above, always charge if you're in range. For most armies, it is important to wait until you can engage several units in HTH at once. Otherwise your enemy can mass and pick them off in detail as they attack (this is a major IG tactic of mine). The BA charge advantages are so outstanding, however, that I think a BA unit should charge even if it isolates itself. Otherwise a good commander, even an IG one, will charge you on his turn and you'll be in HTH anyway, without the bonus St and I. I hope these comments help. ...but not too much ;)
[14] thank you ColChechnov! :-) . (4 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 4/16/2002 18:54 (4/17/2002 13:27) Thank you ColChechnov for your valuable contribution here today! We appreciate your treachery - I mean patriotic service! :-) Your comments are truly very interesting - any chance of you posting a brief descrip of the types of armies that your veteran BA player fields regularly? Would love to hear what style he plays :-) will check back later this evening, and will hope you've had an opportunity to see this :-) ttyl ~ Brother Edward
[14] RE: thank you ColChechnov! :-) . (3 Replies). ColChechnov[]. 4/17/2002 0:20 (4/17/2002 13:27) Hello again Blood Angel Edward, We usually play 1500 to 2000 point games, and my usual opponent has over 5K of Blood Angels. Consequently, I don’t think he’s ever played the same army twice, but it’s always an evenly balanced force. I think that’s a point of pride for hem. He always has:
Most of the time he uses:
A whirlwind. I know these aren’t the favorite of most BA because they loose their chance to shoot when they succumb to the black rage. On the other hand, they are quite inexpensive, they survive well because they can hide behind a hill, and a hit by their whirlwind launcher will annihilate one of my squads each turn. Quite honestly, this is the weapon of his I fear the most. Landspeeder with multimelta. This usually dies to my missile launchers quite early, but he’s grown to fear the indirect fire of my basilisk and the landspeeder is tasked to move around my flank to kill the pesky artillery. Scouts. Good to grab objectives. Easily capable of beating IG in HTH. Also used to kill that #@$& basilisk. After this, who knows. A dreadnought or two often appears. They generally aren’t that effective, they’re too slow to get across the battle field before I take them out, but he really likes the look of the model. The last game we played though, the Fusario was quite effective. It was me with the "Corrupted IG" and my son with Chaos Space Marines against a defending BA force (it has to happen some time). It was our own scenario where we outnumbered him but had to use reserves, and he had fortifications. One dreadnought provided fire support and was taken out by my lascannons, but the Fusario hid behind some cover until a squad of Plague marines was within 12". The Fusario started to rip the usually resistant minions of nurgle to shreds and they could do nothing to stop it. After it defeated them, it charged into a unit of possessed marines that were just making it to the battle. Once again the chaos marines (who in this case had a bonus to number of attacks and had powerclaws on their random possessed powers) had no way of hurting the dreadnought. The Fusario killed almost 400 points of Chaos that game. Well worth it’s price. Once he played a drop pod army that all did a deep strike on turn 1
(once again our own scenario). The BA were unstoppable and we put that
scenario off to the side where we keep things like letting the Tyranids
be the attacker in an "ambush". Interesting to try once, but not really
any fun. The same guy plays orks and Eldar, but his BA are the tough ones
to beat.
[14] :-) . (2 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 4/17/2002 12:43 (4/17/2002 13:27) Hello there again ColChechnov! Thank you so much for sharing this info, I'll run an army like this first chance I get and see how things work for me :-) IT's not too dissimilar from many that I've run so I think I can make a good go of it :) Interesting to hear about the Furioso, I've always had problems getting the things into combat - but I'll give it my best and we'll see what happens! :) Well must be about some errands for a bit - the boards are much faster these days than in seasons past don't you think? Harder to keep things near the front! DOH! ttyl ~ Brother Edward
PS. there's a fun (if brief) battle report on my site that you may enjoy (an IG report with interesting terrain). Just hit the site and go either to the "Battle Reports" section, or the "What's New" section and you should find links to it :-) Reply
[14] RE: :-) . (1 Replies). ColChechnov[]. 4/17/2002 13:02 (4/17/2002 13:27)
>> ttyl ~ Brother Edward
Already read it. I love your site by the way. You should get some sort of award from GW for such a great promotion of their game, or some free stuff at the very least. I'm quite fond of Katherine's HK Sisters also. I'm just getting my Sister's army going, and I'm not good enough to give any advice yet. Got Ordnance?
[14] RE: RE: :-) . (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 4/17/2002 13:27
(4/17/2002 13:27)
++++++ ha! you beat me to it :-) an award from GW? nah :-) I just love the game :-) happy to hear you like Katherine's Sisters! They are fun aren't they? :-) You have found the Sisters of Battle tactical archives there in our Blood Angel Tactical Library yes? LOTS of great Sisters of Battle stuff there including at least one special article by Courage :-) ttyl ~ Brother Edward
[14] An[other] IG perspective . (0 Replies). plxvandyk[]. 4/19/2002 6:01 (4/19/2002 6:01) ooh, assault-based marine armies :) one of the few enemy forces i kill in detail... okay... basic rule to live by in 40k... shoot the assault-based units, assault the shooty units... this is a credo that most armies can live by... however, if you play blood angels, you can (all too easily) forget about the balancing of your army and go all-out with your assault elements. This means you can deal most effectively with a shooty army, but also that you have your most problems dealing with a shooty army. consider the rhino for your deathcompany when facing very shooty armies... (it'll save your guys from things like battle-cannons) try not to clump up too much... an ordnance template can decimate anything it hits, the more clumped up you are, the worse the result for you... charge when you get the opportunity... you'll have to sweeping advance anyway and you might as well kill some stuff at the same time... i agree whole-heartedly with Brother Edward on his maxim towards using cover whenever possible... cover is your friend... especially when you face a very shooty army... combats screen you from enemy fire... (a good thing)... if you can get
an advance unit into HtH with his forward units early on, you can then
get to avoid having your later support waves fired on (as long as you don't
over-do the assault and over-extend yourself - [if you do that, you'll
have your assault stretched thin and a good enemy commander will use this
opportunity to divide your troops and kill them piece by piece...
the basic tactics i employ to kill blood angels are: 1) concentrate fire on threats... kill the things that are the biggest
threat first, and concentrate all your fire on each unit until it's no
longer a threat. Then move on to the next target.
well, back to work cheers
[14] 14 powerfists
in a squad? . (0 Replies). echoota[]. 4/30/2002 11:28 (4/30/2002 11:28)
>> Every good IG commander has a "counter-charge" squad. These HTH specialists
(by IG standards) charge into already existing melee's. The combination
of IG numbers from the original squad and 14 powerfist attacks (in my counter-charge
unit anyway) can often win the combat. These guys are usually mounted in
a Chimera; take it out with your long-range firepower and then shoot up
the squad or assault it. You will make short work of them before their
powerfists can be used.
As an IG player I'm highly interested in the composition of your counter
charge squad. How do you fit 14 powerfists into it?
[14] marine dreadnoughts. to fear or not to fear? . (4 Replies). Raphaelus[]. 4/16/2002 21:17 (4/21/2002 10:23) 'dreadnoughts and their place in a blood angel army.' an in depth essay in the field strengths and weaknesses of tactical dreadnoughts on the 40k battlefield hiya
' i laugh at your heavy weapons as i destroy your tanks with my assault cannon buaahh hahahahahahaha' tonelessly intoned brother ishouldbedeadeo one of the things that has changed with the introduction of the new
edition was the way that marine dreadnoughts are to be used on the battlefield.
depending on the weapons mounts of the dreadnought in the previous edition
a dreadnought could be configured as a mobile support weapon for knocking
out enemy tanks - what i call the 'hehehe i have twin linked lascannons
and a missile launcher that fires sustained' config, or the more docile
'i have 6 sustained fire dice bring on the gretchin' config and the last
but not least i have some powerfists im going to pull your arms off an
make you eat them' config.
1. manic defensive.
2. decoy decoy i am scary shoot me quickly.
for a bargain price you have an elite which *potentially* may do some damage in a shoot out, can move towards the enemy with no reduction in its shooting power, is nasty in close combat if you choose your opponents wisely and is a distraction to the foe. i say everyone should take at least one no this is not a gw advertisement 'you want me to teleport where??'
[14] can anyone help me with the furioso? . (3 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 4/16/2002 22:27 (4/21/2002 10:23) Indeed - the dreadnought has always been something of a thorn in my side... it's presence on the game table doesn't match it's fluff (at least not in my mind). I mean the dreads in the fluff are fearsome constructs with warriors who have fought for centuries in these things.... centuries you say? well thatis interesting - mine didn't last ten minutes around here - and I'm feeling a bit guilty that dear old brother so and so who lived for centuries has just bought the farm because I'm so amazingly incompetant. Not only did I manag to kill a fellow who has been around for so long, but I did it in miniutes! :-) Never fear though - dreads are useful in the fire support role (I've figured that much out). Missile launcher, twin linked lascannons - have the thing waddle up behind some trees - sit there until the turn you need the fire support (you likely need it as soon as it can waddle up there!) then have him park his metal behind there in the trees and shoot til all the bad guys are gone :-) invulnerable cover save for the dread, support fire for everyone else... Now as far as using a furioso I really have little idea how people use the things - how do you people get the things into combat? what opponent lets you walk a dread so close? now a rhino mounted tac squad I can see - it's hard for anyone to keep away from that kind of reach - same for jumppack troops... but a dreadnought? can someone - anyone - please tell me exactly - PRECISELY how one sneaks a dread into position to charge without the thing being fired upon? I honestly want to hear about this :-) see ya in the morning ~ Brother Edward
[14] Sure I can . (0 Replies). LibrarianJames[psicombat@hotmail.com]. 4/16/2002 22:39 (4/16/2002 22:39) Just do not use it. Alternatively, you could pester the enemy with faster units unitl you get into position or do like some do and put in rhinos to block it as cannon fodder while it advances (this seems like a waste of points to me, butnot my idea so don't whine to me about it). ONE MAJOR THING: DREADS DO NOT GET COVER SAVES!! Anything with an armor value gets a "hull down" rule in cover, which means no penetrating hits only glancing. >> Indeed - the dreadnought has always been something of a thorn in
my side... it's presence on the game table doesn't match it's fluff (at
least not in my mind). I mean the dreads in the fluff are fearsome constructs
with warriors who have fought for centuries in these things.... centuries
you say? well thatis interesting - mine didn't last ten minutes around
here - and I'm feeling a bit guilty that dear old brother so and so who
lived for centuries has just bought the farm because I'm so amazingly incompetant.
Not only did I manag to kill a fellow who has been around for so long,
but I did it in miniutes! :-)
[14] the furioso is my altime favorite modle so i kinda knwo how to use them!!! . (0 Replies). baronsmeg[]. 4/18/2002 23:33 (4/18/2002 23:33) Ok the furios rules in my oppinion, and fortunatly i have not lost a dread in six games which is kinda amazing in and of its self. and normally i take 3!!! the furioso i have found does not charge over to the enemy and attack, just to slow and kinda vunerable!!! this still however is possible, but usually involves using other units like a power weapon loaded honour guard to scare the bejesus out of your opponent so he forgets the dread, or have it walk behind a crusader loaded with assault troops!!! this works well if done right but in my experience it has not been the best use for them!!! now blood angles are an assault army, but that does not mean you should give up on guns all to gether!!! it is kinda nice to have your assault units suported by a stable firing platform!!! now while all your assault troops are racing forward, what is going to protect the fire suport units!!! this is where the furioso comes in!!! since it is to slow to race forward it should stay back and guard you lines!!! now the enemy has to think twice befor charging your dev squad because they have a furioso there for protection!! the best thin is to keep it behind cover whith in charge range of one of your stand still and shoot units (dev squads are great) and make shure you've deployed right so that the furioso is in charge range!! more often than not by doing this the furioso will be able to get in to combat on the second round to suport a unit that has been assaulted, this is ok since you are space amrines, and you dont often go down in assault to quickly, another plus side is you also have a lovely melta gun to take out that transport that just droped the enemy off. to many times have i had a wave surpent drop of some scorps to kill my fire suport units, and my furioso comes up blasts the surpent then charges into hand to hand to deal big fisted death to the punny eldar!!! hope this helps baronsmeg and his mini lop!
[14] Not just any Dreadnought . (0 Replies). Angryfred[]. 4/21/2002 10:23 (4/21/2002 10:23) Well here is my story, my first battle. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME. Any ways, so I have my Furioso Dread, his name just happens to be "Angry Fred" (All blood angels or, sub-blood angles should have Angry in there name) I'm playing against a group of Ultra marines, it was kind of weird, I din't have much cover and being rather newbish I started marching him right up the Middle, out in the open exposed to the harsh winds of A missile Launch and A las-Cannon. Suicidle you say, not that night. Anyways, He charges up the middle firing his built in storm bolter as he goes shrugging of Las-cannon hits and Krak missiles ( Yes really with only his armor of 12 and no smoke ) HE had been stunned, a bunch, and lost both of his built in weapons, ( The Storm Bolter, and the Melta gun ) but then he made his assult, He charged right into a Tac Squad, Failed to do any damage, and then the game ended. Strange? Well that was the end of his luck to, the next game the first turn he was immobolized. Now that you know my amazing story I'll tell you of my plan's tactics wise. SO hears my army, HQ, My hero He gets 4 attacks in h2h, his for honor
guard, they all get three attacks, they all have jump packs.
My plan is to take the land raider and tac squads up the middle, using the Tank for cover with my other 2 squads that have to run after it. My Death company, supported by "Angry Fred" go up the left or the right, And on the opposite side take the land speeders and my Hero, with his honor guard. Haven't been able to try it yet, I just got the land raid, the death company, and the Honor guard, any other advice? A Really Angry Fred
[14] A tidbit or two from the OTHER angels of death . (1 Replies). irskin[]. 4/16/2002 23:57 (4/18/2002 23:09) Greetings Honoured Brother Edward! Always a pleasure to see stuff from you on the boards. I might as well speak up for the Dark Angels while I'm here. Now, I am by no means a greatly experienced player, but I read and soak up tactical theory like a sponge, so I shall expostulate as best I can. I have only played a Blood Angels Army once before, and the player was a youngun' (so am I, I suppose, being only 18, but meh), and he certainly could have used some of the wisdom being shared here. It was a 3-way game with 4 players (one only had 500pts so the eldar and dark eldar teamed up for 1000 total), but everyone essentially ganged up on me because I was the oldest player. The blood angel had two half-devastator squads (only 2 heavy weapons each), 2 tac squads, a dreadnought, and a small honour guard with jump packs (I think that's right, its been a while since that game). No dc for some reason. Anyways, playing a shooty DA army, I had no problems gunning down the assault squad, and the dreadnought was immobilized by the DE in the middle with a multi melta so it posed little threat. It was actually the tac squads that gave me the most trouble. They hid in buildings and sniped. I won eventually though. Very fun game. In any case. My ideas for Dark Angels going against Blood Angels would be to take many small tac squads with Plasma weapons and razorbacks, ravenwing speeders for volume AP fire, a land raider for mobile bunker, devastators as always, and deathwing with Lightning claws as countercharge. Use the tac squads to break up the assault and draw the attacking units into firetraps, knock out any transports as quickly as possible, and generally ignore shooty units as much as is feasible, as it is the assault units that pose the biggest threat. This is a VERY rough plan, I realize, but without further experience it's all I can come up with. Comments? Suggestions? Woe to the Foes of the Angels of Death! Librarian Epistolery Epiphanius e tenebrae lux
[14] yeah he was a newb . (0 Replies). LibrarianJames[psicombat@hotmail.com]. 4/18/2002 23:09 (4/18/2002 23:09) Heck, _I_ am a newb and even I have learned to NEVER put devastators in a BA army. GYA! Awful >> Greetings Honoured Brother Edward! Always a pleasure to see stuff
from you on the boards.
[14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar . (0 Replies). ishop[]. 4/17/2002 0:15 (4/17/2002 0:15) I play ulthwe, and dont find BA to be much of a problem. The charged rhinos are the biggest thing, but if I can blow them all up my first turn, then I can fight them on my terms. After blowing up rhinos, I move on to dreadnoughts and predators. Then my howling banshees and dreadlords can mop the rest of them up, and my seer council takes care of any people subscepting to the black rage. lol I remember this one time when i was in a 2v2 against BA and DA,
they had 3 land raiders. All of them gone, first turn. Thanks to mr. killy
mcgee (err all my brightlances). Hope that helps.
[14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar . (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherValionos[]. 4/17/2002 6:55 (4/17/2002 6:55) Bump......... Such a wealth of experience shouldn't be allowed to stray far from the Front Page. Brother Valionos.
[14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar . (1 Replies). FraterVermiis[Samuel_Fenwick@hotmail.com]. 4/17/2002 7:12 (4/17/2002 9:26) Although I'm still in the process of painting my lovely marines up, there are a couple of nasty thoughts I'd like to share with you... 1) I'm intending to have a unit of death company with jump-pack and use them as a screen for the Honour guard with a Sanguinary High Priest. As the death company can take one hell of a lot of punishment, this should be effective. 2) As I'll be mounting the tactical squads in the rhinos, there is an
extremely good chance that they will get into combat before my HtH specialists
which wear jump-packs. This is good, as chances are that the first unit
you can charge is likely to be a screen for their more shooty and pricey
units. The turn after (bearing in mind that HtH blocks line of sight),
you can then charge your hth nutters pass the first combat and into combat
with the shooty units. The additional advantage of such a tactic as I see
it, is that if you engaged first with the HtH specialists, you'd run the
danger of wiping the whole unit out on the first turn, leaving your vunerable
to massed fire from the rest of the enemy's army. Furthermore, your opponent
might commit more of his units into the HtH with the Tactical squad as
it might be possible to swing it in his favour. In which case, you can
then add your HtH specialists to the mix and laugh manicially.
3) Furioso dreadnoughts may be slow, so save them for when your opponent is moving towards you (eg World Eaters and Nids) 4) Don't be afraid to use the Exsanguinator on your honour guard (provide
your priest still has two wounds). Each HG, if you've given them a PW and
Jump pack weighs in at 38 pts!
5) Does anyone reckon that there should be an undying emitity between the Blood Angels and the Ultramarines, similar to that between the Space Wolves and the Dark Angels? If you read the fluff in the BA codex, a Captian of the Primarchs of Ulix (one of the successor chapters to the Ultramarines) really doesn't like the BA. From the BA's point of view, it was they who saved humanity by holding the emperor's fortress during the Horus Heresy. It was their Primarch who sacrificed himself so that the Emperor might Slay Horus. And what has history given them? A curse that means that they are a dying chapter, feared by their fellows. What did the Ultramarines get? (They who didn't even take part in the Heresy) A entire empire of rich worlds to rule other, the adoption of their Primarch's ideas into the standard set-up for all Space Marine Chapters, more successor chapters than any other and a reputation for being the ultimate saviours of humanity. Just my two Oboli. Keep em coming. Comments welcome!
[14] :-) . (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 4/17/2002 9:26 (4/17/2002 9:26) >> Although I'm still in the process of painting my lovely marines up, +++++ happy painting then my brother! painting is fun :-) >>
+++++ The DC screen for another unit is effective, just try to stay
behind cover until the last possible moment anf use it only if you have
to - no sense in letting your people be shot up if it's not necessary!
:-) but when it is necessary the DC can take a lot of lumps without getting
too terribly hurt - the4y are without a doubt the toughest unit in our
army.
>>
+++++++ you've been doing your homework :-) the tactic works well -
is somewhat harder to orchestrate in reality than it is to write out, but
the premise/plan is beautiful :-) be sure fo focus your assaults in one
place so that the effect is maximized :-)
>>
+++++ agreed - when facing assault armies a sit and shoot for a bit attitude is something we BA need to do - reduce their numbers a bit before we launch our own assaults as they approach our lines - beware of sucker units which seek to lure our own assault people into an early assault... >>
++++++ Nahhh - we're loyal to the Emperor, he must see some value in
the Ultramarines so we should treat them accordingly. Especially after
the horror of the Horus Heresy, we must do all we can to maintain the brotherhood
- that's my take on it at least :-)
>> Just my two Oboli.
++++++ and what a great two Oboli they were! Thank you so much for your comments! :-) On with the show! Glory to the Emperor and Sanguinius ~ Brother Edward
[14] 3) Enemy tatics ...... . (0 Replies).
Vivi[]. 4/17/2002 14:17 (4/17/2002 14:17)
Vivi,
[14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar . (1 Replies). MidKnightWraith[]. 4/17/2002 15:29 (4/17/2002 18:20) I play Ultramarines, and I have only faced the Blood Angels in 3 battles. My Battle brothers from the Legion of Sanguinius I must say I won 2 of the 3 engagements. What I learned in my first battle is that BA are not very good at standing and shooting. A poorly timed blood rage can spell disaster for you, so my advice from that experience is always be ready to move up to the enemy, make this weakness a strength. My second battle did not go so well. It was a small battlefield in very dense terrain. As a result they were able to move up on my force while taking little if any fire. In a word my detachment was obliterated, and on such a small battlefield the Furioso became my own personal nightmare. My most recent Battle against the Blood Angels came as a complete shock to me. Somehow we ended up on the wrong side of the battle lines. We were instructed to move up to support our imperial guard brothers, only to find out after the battle that we were tricked, and the IG commander was in league with all sorts of Aliens, including the fearsom Orks. The Officer in charge was executed of course, as for the battle reports I've reviewed I can say that the blood angels apeared to be too aggresive. They went first, and due to some sort of special Rhino engines were in assault on the first turn. Surprised the heck out of me. But we weathered the storm well, and the counter assault with a librarian (not Tigurius) and retinue, and a Chaplin and retinue, and an 8xman assault squad (no plasmas) seemed more than enough to turn the tide in my favor. It was very strange, but the impression I came away with from that battle was Blood Angels don't handle counter assaults well. It takes away thier primary advantage, and worse doesn't give them the opportunity to use it further. As someone else said don't get fooled into a sucker charge, and then get eaten by the counter charge. Just some thoughts from an Ultramarines Battle brother, hope they have
been insightful.
[14] :-) . (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 4/17/2002 18:20 (4/17/2002 18:20) >> I play Ultramarines, and I have only faced the Blood Angels in 3 battles. My Battle brothers from the Legion of Sanguinius I must say I won 2 of the 3 engagements. What I learned in my first battle is that BA are not very good at standing and shooting. A poorly timed blood rage can spell disaster for you, so my advice from that experience is always be ready to move up to the enemy, make this weakness a strength. +++++++ Shooty is one thing we don't do well. We can try, but it's my
impression that the shootiest that we ever need to try for is to bring
enough guns for one of two things
2) defensive fire to take out enemy vehicles in every other situation that's it... if we try to beat another shooty army at their own game we're going to come away with the short end of the stick most every time I fear.... >>
++++++ yes sir - if we can avoid losses to shooting, and approach our
opponents, we have a great chance to launch all of our assault units simultaneously
and (therefore) land all of our assaults in more or less the same place
at the same time - this can break an army in a turn or two... the trick
is getting this close without taking the casualties to shooting :-) and
a Furioso? my deepest sympathies go out to your poor shredded people...
but honestly I'm amazed he got one into h2h! :-)
>> My most recent Battle against the Blood Angels came as a complete
shock to me. Somehow we ended up on the wrong side of the battle lines.
We were instructed to move up to support our imperial guard brothers, only
to find out after the battle that we were tricked, and the IG commander
was in league with all sorts of Aliens, including the fearsom Orks. The
Officer in charge was executed of course, as for the battle reports I've
reviewed I can say that the blood angels apeared to be too aggresive. They
went first, and due to some sort of special Rhino engines were in assault
on the first turn. Surprised the heck out of me. But we weathered the storm
well, and the counter assault with a librarian (not Tigurius) and retinue,
and a Chaplin and retinue, and an 8xman assault squad (no plasmas) seemed
more than enough to turn the tide in my favor. It was very strange, but
the impression I came away with from that battle was Blood Angels don't
handle counter assaults well. It takes away thier primary advantage, and
worse doesn't give them the opportunity to use it further. As someone else
said don't get fooled into a sucker charge, and then get eaten by the counter
charge.
+++++ indeed - a sucker assault is one of the nastier tricks that people can pull on a BA player! We must always be on the watchout for what happens AFTER we hit that nice vulnerable unit right in front of us! :-) Another thing that caught me offguard one time was the amazing toughness of Plauge Marines - geez those stinkers are tough! They totally absorbed a charge from a decked out Sanguinary High Priest WITH Honor Guard (complete with power weapons!) now granted I made some less than great rolls - but I was still stunned at how hard those guys are to wound (toughness 5 is evil!). So - indeed, as amazing as we are in assault, we must still be careful of the sucker assault. One of my cheap ways to help protect myself from this is to keep two assault units operating right next to each other - if things somehow go horribly wrong they ultimately have another assault unit there to help them out - and interestingly enough clever opponents usually see this, and it's saved my boys from most willy nilly attacks - in other words we're usually either hit with a vengeance or we're left alone and land nasty assaults against units which simply can't get away from us :-) anywho - that's it for me :-) >> Just some thoughts from an Ultramarines Battle brother, hope they
have been insightful.
++++++ they have been very helpful brother! Thank you for your time
and your valuable insights! ~ Brother Edward
[14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar
. (3 Replies). drakionaliok[]. 4/17/2002 15:53 (4/18/2002 9:17) i have
played against blood angels a few times and they are, as stated earlier,
a rather lopsided all assaulty army.the first blood angels army i played
against was a normal cleanse and i won{i play emperor's children}.my opponent
had very elite units of terminators and death company, but only 2 5 man
scout squads and a tac squad with a missile launcher.i shot at him with
my land raider for 3 turns, which eleminated 1 scout squad and half of
his hq.using building for cover, i had him assault my normal marine squads
with his lightning clawed terminators. he could only get 1 in base through
a door and killed one man, i killed none but didnt break. the kicker for
him came when in my turn i assaulted with my slaaaneshi lord(7 attacks)
and 2 squads of 6 daemonettes. i killed his lord and honor guard through
an unholy number of attacks.
Overall, i've noticed that clearing out any armor the Ba'shave cripples
them and eleminates a punch in combat with the destruction of the dreds.they
are by no means underrated and i do not take them litely, for i fear a
vet with blood angels. hope i helped.
[14] :-) . (2 Replies).
BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 4/17/2002 23:32 (4/18/2002 9:17) >> i have played
against blood angels a few times and they are, as stated earlier, a rather
lopsided all assaulty army.the first blood angels army i played against
was a normal cleanse and i won{i play emperor's children}.my opponent had
very elite units of terminators and death company, but only 2 5 man scout
squads and a tac squad with a missile launcher.i shot at him with my land
raider for 3 turns, which eleminated 1 scout squad and half of his hq.using
building for cover, i had him assault my normal marine squads with his
lightning clawed terminators. he could only get 1 in base through a door
and killed one man, i killed none but didnt break. the kicker for him came
when in my turn i assaulted with my slaaaneshi lord(7 attacks) and 2 squads
of 6 daemonettes. i killed his lord and honor guard through an unholy number
of attacks.
++++++++ interesting notes you've given us here my friend! In neither case did you face a particularly numberous BA force - both armies went with high points specialty units - and it cost them.... I'm a simpleton I suppose, I like bringing as many warm bodies to the fight as I can :-) and I don't use assassins as part of any "standing" Blood Angels army... I thought your first story about letting the BA hit your Chaos Space Marines - only then to be countercharged by your Chaos Lord was great (nice move!) so again my BA brothers beware the sucker unit that draws you into an unwise assault! Now granted sometimes these things happen and it's difficult to see in advance - but we can help matters by keeping an eye out for them all the same! :-) Thank you drakionaliok for sharing your experiences here with us today! Glory to the Emperor and Sanguinius ~ Brother Edward PS. by Dante's power axe I do believe we've got more non-BA players contributing to this thread than actual BA players! Reply
[14] Non-BA Players . (1 Replies). Dulocke[]. 4/18/2002 1:39 (4/18/2002
9:17) When it comes to BA players it is the Non-Blood Angel players that
can give the best advice, well, because we are the one that have to develope
tactics to deal with them.
[14] :-) . (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 4/18/2002 9:17 (4/18/2002 9:17) >> When it comes to BA players it is the Non-Blood Angel players that can give the best advice, well, because we are the one that have to develope tactics to deal with them. ++++ indeed you do! and I for one am very grateful for all your participation in this thread! ~ Brother Edward
[14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar . (0 Replies). collosotyrant[]. 4/18/2002 2:49 (4/18/2002 2:49) Ive experienced one of my few losses due to a good blood angels player. It seems against tyranid an army hvy on razorbacks and rhinos will generally keep you safe against their shooting, and the razorbacks will give you a bit of hvy hitting power against the tyrants and carnis. In my last RT tournament he was my last battle after routing my 2 previous opponents, he parked all of his 2 rhinos and 3 razorbacks at the very back of the board, and shot me till i got within charge range, then BAMMMM one massive charge. In this game i was a little TOO cocky and figured i could weather the initial charge, BOY was i wrong, the only model i had left was a hive tyrant, and though he was slaughtering all comers there was no way to kill enough to win. I learned a lesson, BRING MORE rhino killing guns against the Red Devils hehe. Chalk one up to experience. this is a generally effective tactic against tyranid as the gaunts cant touch vehicles, and the big ones which can are too slow to deal with them for the gaunts, SO the gaunts will make it up first and have nothing to kill then you unload ALL the transports and shoot and assault the gaunts into oblivion, then just jump back into the transports and blast away at the poor unsupported big monsters. I learned new respect for bloodangels and will NEVER again underestimate them. CHEERS FOR THAT CHUMP SANGUINAS! always heretical, collosotyrant.
[14] Thank the Emperor! . (1 Replies). SanguiniusBHZ[Sanguinius_BHZ@hotmail.com]. 4/18/2002 10:42 (4/18/2002 11:47) Greetings my Brothers! It has been long since I have seen such a gathering of minds! I have dwelled to long in the company of the Imperial Guard, yet i am proud to anonce that i have returned! The main problem i have is with the forces of chaos...the scum! How can one army be so powerful? Thousand Sons Terminators are nearly impossible to kill, not to mention how irritanting the Sorcerors are! Fleshy Curse? Abomination! How dare they transform my almighty Force Commander into Chaos Spawn?!?! The chaos player i usually play against has the annoying habit of running away from me! It takes me ages to get into combat, and even when i do get into that most blessed of combats i find that i lack the troops to destroy them (though it was funny when a lowly scout killed his Sorceror Lord....hehe)! The fiend! My force lacks tanks of any discription (as i am waiting for the new ones baced on the fab looking Rhino) so i have a hard time shooting at him either...please could anyone give me help in this matter (though i really dont need it- i always win anyway, but its too close of comfort)? Glory to the Emperor and Sanguinius!
[14] How good it is
to see you! . (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 4/18/2002 11:47 (4/18/2002
11:47) >> Greetings my Brothers! It has been long since I have seen such
a gathering of minds! I have dwelled to long in the company of the Imperial
Guard, yet i am proud to anonce that i have returned!
++++++ Greetings brother! We can help you with Chaos, but before I forget I wanted to invite you (because of your IG background especially!) to our first Guest Lecturer in the B.A Forums on my 40K site Ex Libris Mortis. This Friday (April 19th) at 6pm EST we'll be posting an in depth article written by a veteran IG player on the tactics veteran Imperial Guard players will often use against Blood Angels. Naturally this is so that we Blood Angels can learn a bit more about I.G. tactics, and hopefully come up with better assault plans! Thought I'd let you know so you could come see if you were interested :-) Now - on to Chaos! Several tough things about Chaos, but to me the toughest part is their armor saves, we've got to bring out the anti tank weapons in order to drop them with shooting! Now you say you've got no tanks? wow - well that means we get to focus on putting missile launchers into as many squads as possible.... do you have speeders? speeders with multimeltas are good :) terminators - have you thought about assault terminators? hhhmmm - tell you what, post your army here and we'll see what we can tweak how about that? :-) looking forward to seing your list, will get back to you later in the
day :-) ~ Brother Edward
PS. if you're enjoying this discussion we have a number of threads like
this one (but larger) stored in the Blood Angels Tactical Library on my
site :-)
happy 40K ~ Brother Edward
[14] BA Army Help! (Needed) . (1 Replies). Kamikazeee[]. 4/18/2002 22:29 (4/18/2002 23:49) Hail fellow brothers! I just bought a 5 man Terminator Squad, 5 man Devistator Squad, 5 man Death Company Squad. (I put all the default weapons on them, the ones that they came with). I would like to know where do I go from there? (I want about 750 pts in the next few weeks, and about 500pts now). What should I buy next? And since I am new to BA and Space Marines, what should I do to make it playable? (My friend said I have enuff right now for me to join his army) (2v1 type thing). Any help appreciated. (What else should I put into my army to make it 500-750 pts?) Could u write up a 500-750 pt army list? (I won't rush ASAP, since we always play for fun, but I will just use my devistator squad to hit from a distance, and when they advance, I will rush in with my HtH'ers). And how should I setup my army right now so I can play on my friends team (what do I use as an HW, and whut upgrades and stuff should I use?) Any other special rules I should know about?
[14] here you go :-)
. (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 4/18/2002 23:49 (4/18/2002 23:49)
>> Hail fellow brothers! I just bought a 5 man Terminator Squad, 5 man
Devistator Squad, 5 man Death Company Squad. (I put all the default weapons
on them, the ones that they came with).
+++++++ hello there! Welcome to the chapter! :) First you need to go get our Codex (if you haven't already), but if I had to guess I'd say you haven't yet because you have no troop choices! :-) Two things for you 1) I'll tell you a little about what you need. 2) you need to go to the Blood Angels Tactical Libray on my site (http://www.dragonrealm.com/exlibrismortis) and read "An Introduction to Blood Angels", it is a step by step essay on how to get going! :-) but I'll still help you out right here :-) you my friend need a Chaplain with a jumppack! Gotta have someone to lead the Death Company you know! :-) I always give mine a plasma pistol but that's just me :-) Now you need two troop choices - get out there and get yourself two tac squads (each with vet serg w/power weapon, missile launcher, flamer) and one rhino with smoke launchers (which puts you closer to 1000pts but that's fine :-) Having a Chaplain, 2 tac squads (one mounted) and a devastator squad
is not a bad way to start playing Blood Angels! Less than that and I just
don't know how you can get a feel for things....
Now later on, after you played a bit with what we've talked about you'll notice you're kind of low on shooting power (so you'll chose something like a speeder or attack bikes to help you shoot more), and then you'll notice you wish you had more assault power (so you'll add a ten man jumppack assault unit. And by this time you've got a 1500pt army that can handle most anything :-) then you'll look around and say "gee I wish I had a ride for my Terminators" and whammo a Landraider and a few other odd things (maybe some scouts) and bingo bango you've got a 2000pt army :-) But the best part is that for now you take it one step at a time - play your army a few times after yo0u add a new unit - this will give you valuable game experience and you will learn for yourself what units you feel you are lacking :-) and in the end your army will reflect your own path to battle glory becauseyou've chosen the units that you feel you needed to help win the day! :-) Well that's it for me - now run along and read that "Introduction to Blood Angels" article there in the tactical library, and if you like it there are several other articles ther as well - and even a few tactical threads from other Seminars like this one :-) Well off to bed with me, hope this helped! And if you ever need more advice please don't hesitate to ask for help here in the GW forum, and you're welcome to also ask for help in the Blood Angels message boards on my website Ex Libris Mortis (we have a number of veteran BA players who watch things there - go figure! :-) happy gaming, hope this helped! ~ Brother Edward
PS, you probably noticed I didn't even mention your assault terminators... assault terminators are great fun (and really cool minis!) but they are (in my opinion) something of a specialty item that I only use to spearhead truly powerful assaults into the nastiest bad guys. With your rhinos and jumppack people moving twelve inches a turn the termies (without transport) are going to be the last ones into combat (if they get there at all!) so for you you'll be teleporting them in (teleport in somewhere where the bad guys can't shoot them!) but teleporting them in will be your only real way to get them into combat until you get a landraider.... a landraider with assault terminators may actually be one of the very next things you ought to get - after you get the chaplain, 2 tac squads and rhino :-) Glory forever to the Emperor and Sanguinius ~ Brother Edward
Reply
[14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar
. (0 Replies). penallegionscum[Tryandbunkerme]. 4/18/2002 22:55 (4/18/2002
22:55) Man Brother Edward, you sure can write a lot lol.
anyways, here we go: my army list. HQs: Force commander(master craft), Librarian(jump pak, lightning claws, iron halo, terme honours, artificer armour, jump pak), Chaplain(jump pak). Troops: 1 Tack( 1 Plasma Canon, 1 Las, 1 vetsarge, 7marines,frag grenades to all) 1 tack( 1 missl launcher, 1 flamer, 1 sarge, 7 marines, krak grenades). 1 scout squad( 1 sarge, 2 scouts, 5 scouts w sniper rifles) 1 DC (i think these guys are elite, but i too lazy to look it up) 4 DC, 1 with standard Fast attack: 1 land speeder(multi melta), honour Guard(typical honor guard) Hevy support: Baal Pred. 2 hvy bolters, extra armour , dozer blade Elites: Furioso Dred, Termi squad, 1 sarge, 1 w/assault cannon,4 termes transprts: 1 BAAL Class rhino(converted using VDR) twin linked hvy bolter,
+1 armour to front armour, extra armour ,dozer blade(email me for the full
rules)
i mainly use 1 tak, my lib as my Hq, DC with Chap. Rhino, dred and razorbak. trick is with this setup is to hold the tack and the razor back untill you got rid of the nmes main cc boyz, then swoop in DC and the lib(7 min power wep attacks from the lib w/o quikening or charge) and sweep through the enemy. my 2 creds P.S. Battle Brother Edward, Keep up the good work with your site, and Glory
to the Emperor!
[14] Thanks Brother Edward . (0 Replies). MarshallUbrecht[].
4/18/2002 23:54 (4/18/2002 23:54) Even though I play Black Templar I appreciate
your site and your advice as we have similar assaulty armies. I also appreciate
the Templar area on your site and I look forward to seeing more there.
I particularly enjoy your visual battle reports and I have learned much
from them, enough to win the first tournament I ever played in with a 2000
point Templar army against mainly Tau and Eldar. My army can't compare
to yours but I am up to 4000+ points painted tournament ready Black Templars.
Check out my first battle report entitled "Templars vs Orcs Battle Report"
on this site. I would appreciate any pointers.
Respectfully yours,
P.S. I first started playing 40K against a Blood Angel army and I have
fond memories of my many victories:) Besides our two armies look great
together on the battlefield, jet black and blood red marines, who could
ask for anything better.
[14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar . (1 Replies). FraterVermiis[]. 4/19/2002 3:59 (4/19/2002 16:36) One Thing I'd really like some advice on is this: I recently came into possession of a dreadnought and ordered an extra lascannon and two right arm powerfist through mail order. I then bought the Space Marine Megaforce, and intended to convert the plastic dreadnought into Moriar the Chosen, but was suprised to see that it came with weapon options. What do you suggest I do? I'm thinking of going ahead with the conversion, as it would look good and I can already alter the first dreadnought's weapons for each battle. Has anyone used Moriar in their games? Any Conversion tips? I'm thinking of some large chains at the back and a manuscript on his right arm, with the whole "Fear leads to Hate" deal writtin on it. Also there's the need for the syringes from which he came suck the vital fluid from his foes. That can be acheived through use of bits off old sprues and green stuff. Any advice would be much appreciated.
[14] Moriar . (0 Replies).
BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 4/19/2002 16:36 (4/19/2002 16:36) >> One Thing
I'd really like some advice on is this:
+++++ hey there! I've got a Moriar, but have yet to use him in a game - DOH! But it's a fun model to paint - especially as there is little (if any) info on what he looks like! :-) maybe you can sneak in some spiky bits, skulls and such :-) I love decorating BA stuff with skulls, I put a teardrop of Gore Red on the forehead and suddenly it's a Blood Angels icon :-) if I may though one little idea - might you consider using a slogan like "Hate for Hate's sake"? that sounds a bit more.... "Moriar like" to me :-) have fun with your Moriar! ~ Brother Edward
Reply
[14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar
. (3 Replies). illpot[]. 4/19/2002 7:47 (4/20/2002 23:38) well personally
i've never lost against BA(dont kill me plz)
my tactic is usually to make the most of it when the BA are still charging and use my blood claws as human-sheilds for those annoying DC pistols and when the BA get in (*gulp*) i hold them up with my blood claws and wolf lord with termies bodyguard(witch usually gets killed)and then when they are thined out or when they are gonna break through my grey hunters counter-charge them i use my 4 bikes usually to harass and piss off the honor guard and DC and to kill off some devastator before they get ripped apart by the (annoyingly eeeeevil)furisio dread and my long fangs just hunt for the commanders and DC and dreads BUT i nearly once did lose because some scouts witch i forgot about came up behind my line and started to rape my long fangs costing my precious plasma cannons and for all you SW player out there.....NEVER ASSUAULT BA trust me and
to look out for annoying scouts
[14] :-) . (2 Replies).
BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 4/19/2002 8:46 (4/20/2002 23:38)
+++++++ you've got one of the armies that can give us a really bad time :-) Not only do you have power armor, but you have access to the best weapons/units, AND you have a very capable assault which puts us on more or less equal footing! So if you're a patient "sit and shoot them up" kind of a fellow (which it sounds like you can be!) you can stand there and gun us down as we come screaming toward you :-) Interesting thought that your shooty tactics have worked so unfailingly, can you describe the types of BA forces that usually come at you? looking forward to hearing some of the details ~ Brother Edward PS. You sound like a pretty darned seasoned S.W. player! Hopefully one
of these days you'll meet up with a more seasoned B.A. player who can give
you more of a run for your money! ;-)
[14] RE: :-) . (1 Replies). illpot[]. 4/19/2002 18:46 (4/20/2002 23:38)
well to be honest the BA players i face are kinda....dumb because they
dont seem to understand the meaning 'rhinos help troops to move fast' and
because of that they usually come to me 1 squad at a time (jump packs first...).
wish me luck
[14] :-) . (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 4/20/2002 23:38 (4/20/2002
23:38) >> well to be honest the BA players i face are kinda....dumb because
they dont seem to understand the meaning 'rhinos help troops to move fast'
and because of that they usually come to me 1 squad at a time (jump packs
first...).
++++ this is a good day brother :) you at least knew you weren't getting the "full experience", and (no offence brother) anyone who has yet to lose has just not yet been challenged sufficiently! :) Personally I think you've got a lot of fun gaming ahead of you - a mobile shooty BA army with a powerful assault component is a blast to play against! Rhinos, jumppacks, attack bikes, nasty Death Company - all kinds of fun! :-) good luck in your fight, but if you win again I'd like to suggest that you start teaching the locals a bit, things will be more fun for everyone if you can help your opponents to play better - more challenging games are more fun for everyone! :-) Thanks for participating in our discussion here! :) Glory to the Emperor and Sanguinius ~ Brother Edward
Reply
[14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar . (4 Replies). lordcommanderallyd[r.paynter@btinternet.com]. 4/19/2002 17:28 (4/20/2002 8:19) hail brother edward who is as ever the intermediatary between other devoted battle brothers! hail the emperor. i have a an army that is most definately not designed towards shooting as it consists of 20 assault marines 10 honour guard 1 librarian 2 d.comp dreadnaughts (i play flesh tearers)and 30 scouts all with close combat weapons.also 3 land speeders with multi meltas. as my army is very opposed to shooting (a most unhonourable way of fighting)it
does have tendancies to be a nightmare to fight with against eldar as you
have said for the main reason that most eldar players i play againt have
an unhealth (for me) amount of dark reapers that are hell for all men concerned
also even more annoying than that are the falcons and vypers that they
have as they have a long range and can out manouver me and as i have no
long ranged weapons bar the land speeders (which more often than not the
falcon or vypers shoot down leaving me with but one choise and that is
to get into combat kill as much as i can and hope that i win by victory
points and or table quaters.
but one of my favoured tactics (some think suicidal) is to put one unit of assault marines within 12" of eldar dog guardian infantry because if you dont charge the guardians will not be able to resist(after they have had a few shots at the unit(bear in mind that im not suicidal enough to let his whole army see the unit)and once they charge i kill them sweep advance 3d6 into another enemy unit which would normally mean me going out into the open but in this case i charge straight into him and as its my turn next he cant shoot me even though i did sweep and then i can move and charge meaning any unit i want to go for i will almost certainly get to. but dont forget the scouts they i especcialy like as they are great in hand to hand all you need is a bit of terrain and theyll cut everything up.i just dont like the idea of a in between unit like a tactical squad as they are just to weak and puny(no offence to those who love them) i also have a larger eldar army an even larger still sisters army a really small imp army and a d.eldar army which is basically seventy warriors and a lord and retinue so if you would like any info on how they deal with b.as just reply also ive been on to your site and it rocks! that is one massive army and so im guessing you know a lot about the rules so im asking you this question on scouts as you know i have enough of but what i want to know is if they can have a vdr vehicle to transport them (nothin beardy just a few terrain mods to keep in the style of scouts)as i assume you can as termiescan be mounted in a land raider but it doesnt say they can.and if so is it because its in a different section i.e heavy support if so i would be willing to use up the choice sections to keep the scouts safe keep the posts coming i read them all inquisitor jubilus
[14] scouts in a landriader? :-) . (3 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 4/19/2002 17:41 (4/20/2002 8:19) hail inquisitor jubilus! Ahh - it is refreshing to see an army which embraces the total assault. It is so ironic to me that a full assault armies is one of the best ways to deal with some of our most vicious enemies! I'd love to hear your tactica with regards to orks, nids and World Eaters if you have time - my standard approaches to all three involve a good bit of shooting to thin their numbers, so I'm especially interested to hear how you deal with them with your dedicated assault approach! :-) as for the scouts - I believe the standard Landraider purchased as a heavy support choice (not as a unit transport) can be used to transport "up to ten space marines" and up to eight terminators" so the question is (technically) is a "scout" a "space marine"? I don't know what the rules lawyers would say... but my question is why are you wanting to use a landraider to move scouts around? Or were you wanting to do a VDR assault buggy for them perhaps? Anywho - I'd allow you to drive them in a LR if you wanted to, but to me that defeats the purpose of the scouts as infiltrators - if I'm going to give anyone a ride in the LR it would be a nice HQ with honor guard, or a beefy assault squad (or assault termies come to think of it). I'd have the scouts infiltrate and pester the enemy with early assaults and block line of sight as the rest of my assault wave approaches :-) So write back with more of what you have in mind as I'm not sure I understand what you're shooting for here :-) Thanks for your compliments on my site! I'm always hoping that it helps people :-) Glory to the Emperor and Sanguinius ~ Brother Edward Reply
[14] RE: scouts in a landriader? :-) . (0 Replies). lordcommanderallyd[r.paynter@btinternet.com].
4/19/2002 17:48 (4/19/2002 17:48) i was planing to do a vdr are assault
buggy or around about that anyway cant talk about it now sorry my sister
wants to use the phone hope to write tomorrow if your on
[14] RE: scouts in a landriader? :-) . (1 Replies). lordcommanderallyd[r.paynter@btinternet.com]. 4/20/2002 8:06 (4/20/2002 8:19) when going against nids and other nasties it for me usually depends on the set up as if i am playing a cleanse i will try to push my units up to the table cross section with one small five man unit aand the rest of my army will either move up in the trees(scouts)or flank them from the sides penning them in staying behind cover and then trashing them in assault (youd be suprised how quickly a hive tyrant and his guard go down when you hit him with a force weapon and a considerable amount of lightning claws that ussually can kill the big brutes in a jiffy of cource when playing these armys it does very much count on who charged in fact in all games you play it means you absolutely must charge!the reason i win most of my games against these people is because they are confident that they can beat me in hand to hand so they set up as close as they can to me(in cleanse this is very good as you can charge in first turn where as they need two)on normal 12" setups i just stay there untill they come to me. orks are a bit more tricky and i tend to go with them a inordinate amount of scouts which in the surcumstances of orks dont get any save modifiers.troop based orks are a doddle but a speed freak army i must admit i have only ever beaten 4 times i think and ive been playing for about 6 years. chaos players tend to be very cocky and full of it (the ones i play are anyway)they tend to just go mega on everything and give their men all the upgrades which leaves them open to one major thing power weapons which they still cant do a thing about. in this game it tends to be my hq and assault tropps that do the most killing and the dreds the only times i have trouble with chaos is when they huddle into a corner where they can form a kill area but most of the time they line themselves out and i push my men up to the side with the least combat units in it that way i get into combat with the big guns first and there combat units take maybe two or three turns to get there by which time ive finished with the big guns sustained small amounts of fatalities to them and can them make a kill pile with the chaos combat guys.they are my tactics hope you find them usefull p.s i nearly always include a callidus for a simpe reason and that is that most big gun squads are situated on hills or in buildings an the callidus can move one unit six inches so i always move the heavys of the firing platforms which gives me an extra turm without there shooting two maybe if they have to get up difficult terrain and also her neural shredder is damn good as well for heavy killin just come up behind them! inquisitor jubilus
drink deep in victory and remember the fallen
[14] :-) . (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 4/20/2002 8:19 (4/20/2002 8:19) That's very interesting, thanks for sharing! :-) Glory to the Emperor and Sanguinius ~ Brother Edward PS. feel free to visit the B.A. message boards on my site anytime! :-)
[14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar
. (5 Replies). silentpoet[]. 4/19/2002 17:42 (4/24/2002 10:54) well, well,
this was interesting to read.
happy hunting!
btw, i found most of the above applying to ba playing against tau as
well...
[14] RE: RE: April
Blood Angels Tactical Seminar . (3 Replies). illpot[]. 4/19/2002 22:27
(4/24/2002 10:54) BUM_P
[14] RE: RE: RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar . (2 Replies). Jarmisroben[].
4/24/2002 10:51 (4/24/2002 10:54) >> BUM_P
[14] RE: RE: RE: RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar . (0 Replies).
farquhar[]. 4/24/2002 10:54 (4/24/2002 10:54) >> >> BUM_P
[14] RE: RE: RE: RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar . (0 Replies).
farquhar[]. 4/24/2002 10:54 (4/24/2002 10:54) >> >> BUM_P
[14] :-) . (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 4/20/2002 12:56 (4/20/2002 12:56) Well hello there Silentpoet! It is good to hear from you! It's been a while! :-) Thanks so much for sharing your Eldar's perspective here with us today - Eldar shooting does me in every time, the whole move, shoot, move shoot thing just kills me. Only way to beat it is to not get shot! (not always an easy thing to do!). I may even have to warm up to the whirlwind again, I've taken it against the Eldar a few times but the scatter dice were against me! I'll have to give it another go though, maybe even take two just for fun :-) Well I've got to run for now, thanks again for sharing your insights with everyone here, they are very much appreciated! Glory to the Emperor ~ Brother Edward
Reply
[14] Tau vs. BA . (2 Replies). SytheDeathStrike[sythedeathstrike@hotmail.com].
4/20/2002 23:55 (4/21/2002 8:20) one thing i have learned is an esential
part of any Tau force for going against BA, meat shields, meat shields,
meat shields. i try and have a squad of kroot for every squad of fire warriors.
plus i like to have some large squads of gundrones to go on suicide missions
in to the death company ranks. this gives me time to move squads away from
the DC, and get my heavy support inot blasting range, also, depending on
how you set up you're army, i find that with BA (and 'nids) that sometimes
the "who goes first" roll can make you or break you, plus you'll want to
have losts of devilfishes for you fire warriors, this will help keep you
away from overcharged rhinos seething with death company (a favorite tactic
of my friends). Basically you want to pay extra attention to mobility and
range when fighting BA.
[14] RE: Tau vs. BA
. (1 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 4/21/2002 0:11 (4/21/2002 8:20)
>> one thing i have learned is an esential part of any Tau force for going
against BA, meat shields, meat shields, meat shields. i try and have a
squad of kroot for every squad of fire warriors. plus i like to have some
large squads of gundrones to go on suicide missions in to the death company
ranks. this gives me time to move squads away from the DC, and get my heavy
support inot blasting range, also, depending on how you set up you're army,
i find that with BA (and 'nids) that sometimes the "who goes first" roll
can make you or break you, plus you'll want to have losts of devilfishes
for you fire warriors, this will help keep you away from overcharged rhinos
seething with death company (a favorite tactic of my friends). Basically
you want to pay extra attention to mobility and range when fighting BA.
+++++ oh my - you my friend sound like you have fought the B.A. with your Tau on more than a few occassions! :) You're totally right - the kroot can (especially if they have Kroot hounds with them) absorb a charge like nobody's business, and can really muddle up an otherwise great BA charge! Mobility and shooting power are the death of a Blood Angels army - any army which can do this can beat them every time... especially if they have weapons that can rip through power armor as we all know those blasted plasma rifles (and other things) can! thanks for sharing your experiences here with us tonight! ~ Brother
Edward
[14] RE: RE: Tau vs. BA . (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 4/21/2002 8:20 (4/21/2002 8:20) back to the front! :-) ~ Brother Edward
[14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar
. (2 Replies). Tarpalin[Tarpalin@aol.com]. 4/21/2002 0:51 (4/23/2002 1:32)
First after set up, I infiltrate 2 10 man scout units with vet. serg.
with power weapons, and a 5 man scout squad with shotguns. First turn-
with the scouts I charge headlong towards the enemy keeping to cover as
much as possible. Naturally, 20 cc scouts only 12 inches away, either absorbs
almost all fire or the enemy throws a weak unit of no consequence to absorb
the charge. That's where the shotguns come in handy, because they are (almost)
never shot at. They fire away at the weak unit, the 20 other scouts do
as well, then if the unit's not dead, I will usually charge with the now
mostly useless shotguns. In the meantime I have 2 tactical squads in rhinos
moving forward as fast as possible, 2 landspeeders with multi-meltas moving
towards the biggest vehicle threat, a predator annihilator firing away,
and the Chaplain DC with assault squad and Sang. Priest with 2 lightning
claws close behind moving forward.
As far as how well this strategy works. I don't think it's lost to a
necron player in the 6 or seven times that I've played them
Anyway, that's just my 2 cents worth. Any suggestions for improvement would be welcome. Tarpalin@aol.com
[14] Greetings brother Tarpalin! . (1 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 4/21/2002 17:34 (4/23/2002 1:32) Hey there Tarpalin! Wow - it was wierd reading your article, for it's so similar to what I've done on so many occassions but I'm just now coming to embrace the possibilities of infiltrators as a major part of standard operations, you've got to love the learning curve! :-) Thank you for sharing this with everyone here :-) I'd like io extend an invitation to you, I've begun a B.A. message forum over on my website Ex Libris Mortis and it's getting a lot of activity from veteran players (plus it's well moderated - no screams of beard/cheesy/ect) so if you'd ever like to come visit I'd like to invite you to a board where you will have the audience's complete attention, for I can tell you've put your time in :-) Glory to the Emperor and Sanguinius ~ Brother Edward
Reply
[14] Thanks! . (0 Replies). Tarpalin[Tarpalin@aol.com]. 4/23/2002 1:32
(4/23/2002 1:32) >> Hey there Tarpalin!
Thanks!! I've just started frequenting the GW message board, (I used
to participate on the AOL one before this one was started) You're site
is very cool and informative, and I'll definitely look into your message
boards. It's nice to talk with some veteran BAs
[14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar
. (0 Replies). ambassadorlaquatus[]. 4/21/2002 9:07 (4/21/2002 9:07) does
anyone know where i can get mephiston on australia?
[14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar . (4 Replies). Morten[]. 4/23/2002 6:06 (4/24/2002 11:02) Hi there all... Well, this is the first time I'm contributing to Edwards seminar!
This has allowed me to try many variants of the BA army and some with horrendeus results :-) One of the things I find very useful is the tactical squad and my army always consists of 2 ten-man squads in rhinos and the required chaplain with a jump pack. One unit I have found very useful is the land speeder. Many posters on this board swear to the attack bike, mainly becuase they screen it behind other troops, but screening doesn't work to well IMO because, if you can trace a single line between the bases of the screening models you may shoot at the ones behind. I think that the land speeders work admirably and I usually take a squad of these... and I say a squad, because a single land speeder dies horribly easy, but a unit of 3 is very hard to take down... I have yet to loose them all in a game. Whether you arm them with heavy bolters or multi-meltas is personal preference and depends on your other choices. As already stated earlier by Edward and many of the replies, a BA army needs to have some shooty units in order to be effective, these needs to be able to take down tanks and hard targets, but you also need some heavy weapons to take down large units of infantry as your assault elements will suffer if they engage to large units. Another issue debated here is the one regarding the furioso... Actually this is a very devastating unit, but as all units with an AV, it can be taken out by an early lucky shot. This is a risk you'll have to live with if you decide to use it. The main reason I took a furioso to start with is that it looks extemely cool and it has taken me several games to figure out how to use it. When you deploy it you have to already take it to account what you intend its role to be. Always give it smoke launchers and extra armour and I always give mine a heavy flamer too. I ussualy deploy mine behind cover, preferably behind a forest where no one can shoot at it. Then it uses a couple of turns going from cover to cover, and maybe shooting its smoke if I feel it could come inder enemy fire. However, its best use is when you have behind a forest and then I move through the trees towards the enemy. Units like wraithguards and firedragons are actually my primary targets with this one, when I move them towards these targets, my opponent gets the feel that he is in control of the situation, and as the furioso lacks effective long range firepower, they usually let it alone, thinking they can deal with it in time. I use this to my advantage, and for the bargain of 113 points it usually never lets me down. Many times are the memories of this behemoth smashing apart wraithguards, chaos lords, nurgle marines, incubi and shooting down raiders and wave serpents. I find it very effective and certainly worth its point cost. However, like anything in this game you'll suffer frombad luck or your opponents good luck :-) An army I have had good succes with, and which is fairly balanced is this one (of the top of my head, as I do not have my codex right here) Chaplain w/plasma pistol, jumppack, termi hon, frag (231 points)
This is my standard army and performs well on the battlefield against most opponents. What I do is letting the sergeant from the shooty units become DC first and regular marines from my assault tacs. I usually get a rather well sized DC (7-9) and this is my primary assault unit. I have the two small tactical squads as fire support and these have a size enabling them to make good use of cover and still enabling them to deliver good fire support. However, cover is not essentiel for these units and they will be put out on a limb if they will be able to support my two assault tac teams better. The deavastor squad is able to deliver some deadly fire into both hard targets and masses of soft infantry, and is of a decent size to absorb casulties very well. The land speeders go hunting for units like dark reapers, fire warriors, genestealers, rhino or raider transport etc, they a used as reserve back up fire if my static units fail (like suffering the black rage) Finally I have a very accurate lascannon platform on my predator which can fire at other tanks and deadly targets and also able to fire if forced to move. I deploy my 3 static fire units in places where they have good fields of fire, and the assault units and land speedes behind cover, and the predator where I think it will be of best use (many times this is as a screen for my rhinos) Well, hope this os of any help to someone and good luck on the tables
:-)
[14] welcome brother Morten! . (3 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 4/23/2002 9:39 (4/24/2002 11:02) Welcome brother Morten! It is an honor to hear from another veteran Blood Angel player! I think it's endlessly interesting that you've played for so long, but are just now beginning to collect your own army! :) This is going to be great fun for you - making your army is SO much fun! That's a GREAT 1500pt list you've got there - our styles of play must be similar for I believe I could do well with that list, have the two 5 man fire support teams and the devs shoot at things right from the getgo, pred moves up to firing position and then controls that ground - the rhino mounted tac squads approach behind cover in a coordinated fashion with the Chaplain/DC and (hopefully) begin landing their assaults simultaneously while speeders provide good mobile firepower wherever there is need... that's my ballpark assessment :) +++ oh - heh heh heh, I see you described it in detail further down :) One interesting thing that I'll bring up (and later I'll make a post asking others how they play) the line of sight thing - is it trace a line of sight between the bases? In my mind I thought it was that the unit made a "screen" from one end mini to the other end (though we've played both ways before)? Well I've got to be running along now - it was great hearing from you! and I'd also like to invite you to visit the B.A. forums on Ex Libris Mortis whenever you like - we've got a growing group of veteran players who keep an eye on things there - so between there and the great GW boards you're bound to get your fill of Blood Angels gossip :-) Thanks again, I hope we'll hear from you again sometime :)
>> Hi there all...
[14] Thanks! . (2 Replies). Morten[]. 4/23/2002 12:07 (4/24/2002 11:02) >> Welcome brother Morten! **** Thank you... >> It is an honor to hear from another veteran Blood Angel player! I think it's endlessly interesting that you've played for so long, but are just now beginning to collect your own army! :) This is going to be great fun for you - making your army is SO much fun! **** Yes, I think so too, but it is addictive! I just don't seem to
be able to stop :-) You know that feeling, that if you could just get that
meltagun you could finish that squad so you have a choice of special weapons
within it, and before you realize it, you somehow have got a hold of it
and assemble it, and then you think, if I could just... it never ends :-)
My last finished unit was a 10 man veteran assault squad with a lightning
claw armed sergeant and 2 meltaguns, and I'm already starting to think
about another one, or maybe I should make a normal assault squad, as I'm
making the fifth company (the one with the single black teardrop), ARGHH,
what is a commander to do???
>> One interesting thing that I'll bring up (and later I'll make a post asking others how they play) the line of sight thing - is it trace a line of sight between the bases? In my mind I thought it was that the unit made a "screen" from one end mini to the other end (though we've played both ways before)? **** Well, yes... The way we play it, and that you must have reasoned, is that only models block line of sight, units don't. I can't check the books right now, but as far as I can recall, it is stated in chapter approved. >> Well I've got to be running along now - it was great hearing from you! and I'd also like to invite you to visit the B.A. forums on Ex Libris Mortis whenever you like - we've got a growing group of veteran players who keep an eye on things there - so between there and the great GW boards you're bound to get your fill of Blood Angels gossip :-) **** Thank you, I'll go and have a look from time to time...
[14] im new to this seminar thingy but... . (1 Replies). angelofanarchy[adjfifteen@aol.com].
4/23/2002 17:04 (4/24/2002 11:02) i have had a lot of trouble against the
dark eldar.
[14] welcome! :-) . (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 4/24/2002 11:02
(4/24/2002 11:02) >> i have had a lot of trouble against the dark eldar.
++++++++ greetings brother! Welcome to the discussion :) This tactical seminar has grown so large that it's hitting that point where it's difficult for people to respond to new requests, so I'll begin a new thread on the Blood Angels boards of Ex Libris Mortis (many Blood Angel players post there) and we'll be able to come up with some answers for you :-) So come to Ex Libris Mortis this evening, and go to the "Blood Angels Message Boards" and look for the thread about fighting Dark Eldar :-) hope to hear from you soon ~ Brother Edward
Reply
[14] RE: April Blood Angels Tactical Seminar
. (1 Replies). plasmaforge[]. 4/23/2002 13:21 (4/23/2002 13:34) call me
nuts but i really like to put a Land Raider Crusader in the army, sure
it dosn't have alot of range but it is great for providing cover (even
if it is destroyed) plus there is alot of bullets that thing can toss out
in case someone does get brave and decide to assault!!
>> Good evening my battle brothers!
[14] :-) . (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 4/23/2002 13:34 (4/23/2002 13:34) >>plasmaforge[]. 4/23/2002 13:21 (4/23/2002 13:21) call me nuts but i really like to put a Land Raider Crusader in the army, sure it dosn't have alot of range but it is great for providing cover (even if it is destroyed) plus there is alot of bullets that thing can toss out in case someone does get brave and decide to assault!! ++++ heya plasmaforge! Nah - you're not nuts! Landraider crusaders are awesome! :-) I think if I were going just for cover I'd be more tempted to take a regular landraider (more verhicle killing ability with the twin linked lascannons), but the crusader is AWESOME for taking assault terminators straight to the action, and then rampaging around the field after the initial delivery :) I love landraider crusaders :) ~ Brother Edward
[14] RE: Dreadnought....lots of Dreadnoughts... . (1 Replies). SanguiniusBHZ[Sanguinius_BHZ@hotmail.com]. 4/23/2002 14:26 (4/23/2002 17:14) Greetings my Brothers. I have had this thought...BA armies can actually have 6 Dreadnoughts...nice! I'm a big fan of the might Dreadnought, though I only have the one at the moment. The good thing about taking 6 of them (3 normal one's from Heavy Support and 3 'Furiso' Dreadnoughts from Elites) is that they can take more of a beating. Expensive, yes, but when those surviving Dreads hit the enemy...need I say more? This is best used for big games (2,000+) so that the Dreads can be supported by loads of Infantry. Problem is that you wont have an tanks bar Rhinos and Razorbacks, but as I dont use tanks anyway thats fine by me! Its just a thought. Emperor Protects, Sanguinius Guides.
[14] ah yes - the 6 dread army.... . (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 4/23/2002 17:14 (4/23/2002 17:14) Greetings brother! Ah yes - the legendary 6 dreadnaught army, we Blood Angels have something of a reputation because of this interesting ability to field so many dreads. To my knowledge only the "Death Company Army" can field an equal number. Though I've not yet run across anyone who has the minis to field 6 dreads! LOL I think it would be an interesting army to play with (especially interesting in drop pod missions). I think in games against "blended" armies (a mix of shooty and assault) the 6 dreads would be a lot of fun - but I start to wonder how long they'd last against a veteran player with a dedicated shooty army! Fun for everyone though I'm sure! Now if I can just round up three more dreads (one heavy and 2 furiosos) I've got two shooty dreads now, and Moriar - whoohoo! ... ;) Glory to the Emperor and Sanguinius ~ Brother Edward
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