DA Tactical Thread (Input please) littlepurplemonkey.
       RE: DA Tactical Thread (Input please) Nogdred (2/20/2002 9:00). 
           Oh sign me up - I'm interested :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (2/20/2002 9:15). 
       army composition concepts (long) bodycount (2/20/2002 9:31). 
       oh well, there goes another tactical thread : ( bodycount (2/20/2002 10:12). 
           :( - thnx for your input though - cmon answer guys - please! littlepurplemonkey (2/20/2002
 11:13). 
               RE: :( - thnx for your input though - cmon answer guys - please! micahmbg (2/20/2002
 11:49). 
               bumps for the bump god BloodAngelBrotherEdward (2/28/2002 7:25). 
       my DA tactics aurion (2/20/2002 12:19). 
           anyone...Beuller? aurion (2/20/2002 13:41). 
               RE: anyone...Beuller? micahmbg (2/20/2002 14:36). 
           an important principle bodycount (2/21/2002 5:42). 
               RE: an important principle aurion (2/21/2002 9:20). 
       back to the front with this one! :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (2/20/2002 16:02). 
           angels, unite : ))) bodycount (2/21/2002 7:58). 
               greetings brothers! :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (2/21/2002 23:54). 
       Things that go bump in the night. (NT) (NT) littlepurplemonkey (2/20/2002 17:56). 
       RE: DA Tactical Thread (Input please) danimalicious (2/20/2002 21:13). 
           a reply... aurion (2/21/2002 2:17). 
               RE: Scout w/Shotguns smailliwat (2/24/2002 20:47). 
                   RE: Scout w/Shotguns bodycount (2/25/2002 5:17). 
           on deathwing and other issues bodycount (2/21/2002 4:22). 
               ASK ME WHAT U WANNA KNOW (NT) doomangel (2/21/2002 5:48). 
               RE: on deathwing and other issues littlepurplemonkey (2/21/2002 8:27). 
                   thunder strike bodycount (2/21/2002 9:09). 
                       RE: thunder strike aurion (2/21/2002 9:31). 
                   RE: RE: on deathwing and other issues blackbone (3/4/2002 15:28). 
               RE: on deathwing and other issues danimalicious (2/21/2002 21:02). 
                   tactical dreadnought armor for ICs bodycount (2/22/2002 4:17). 
                       RE: tactical dreadnought armor for ICs littlepurplemonkey (2/22/2002 7:56). 
                           oh well, my bad : ))) bodycount (2/22/2002 8:25). 
       c'mon, we need your ideas (that and a bump : ))) (NT) bodycount (2/21/2002 11:43). 
       DA standards... aurion (2/21/2002 11:44). 
           RE: DA standards... xvr (2/25/2002 10:50). 
               the righteous retribution ... bodycount (2/25/2002 11:27). 
       My thoughts on the RavenWing erdagon (2/21/2002 15:02). 
           we need more ideas on RW bodycount (2/22/2002 3:48). 
               like all things , it depends on your opponent . erdagon (2/22/2002 10:07). 
       OH MY GOD!! Sydney!!.....did you hear that?!?!?! it went BUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (NT) Broadsider
 (2/21/2002 15:40). 
       Just another bump. (NT) littlepurplemonkey (2/21/2002 19:00). 
       OK, Tactics... tactics... hmmm... tactics? (long) Drazden (2/21/2002 20:19). 
           artificer armor and psychic hood - do they really work that well ? bodycount (2/22/2002 5:22).
               the other option... aurion (2/22/2002 8:43). 
                   that's an idea ... bodycount (2/22/2002 10:12). 
                       Artificer armour erdagon (2/22/2002 10:45). 
                   nice idea!!! nt (NT) sutek (3/5/2002 0:42). 
           *sigh* All right Drazden (2/22/2002 15:56). 
               white, as in deathwing ... bodycount (2/23/2002 7:00). 
               White armour , eh ? erdagon (2/23/2002 10:44). 
           RE: OK, Tactics... tactics... hmmm... tactics? (long) blackbone (3/4/2002 16:22). 
               Come again ? erdagon (3/5/2002 0:22). 
       Novice's Strategy boltgunfire (2/21/2002 22:41). 
           hey, whats that? a bump!! (NT) Thomo (2/22/2002 5:07). 
               Huh? (NT) boltgunfire (2/22/2002 18:11). 
       an army list (guess what, DW included :) bodycount (2/22/2002 9:58). 
           My vision on this . erdagon (2/22/2002 10:33). 
               oh my - questions about Blood Angels? BloodAngelBrotherEdward (2/22/2002 10:52). 
           RE: an army list (guess what, DW included :) blackbone (3/4/2002 16:37). 
               Ah , the Razorback erdagon (3/5/2002 0:28). 
                   RE: Ah , the Razorback blackbone (3/5/2002 12:26). 
       Givin it "ze" boot (NT) erdagon (2/22/2002 15:24). 
       Review this DA army please Broadsider (2/22/2002 18:21). 
           a 1500pt DA tourney Army doomangel (2/22/2002 20:33). 
               lemme see . erdagon (2/23/2002 3:33). 
               another rewiev ... bodycount (2/23/2002 9:09). 
                   a tactical concept ... bodycount (2/24/2002 7:56). 
                       Some small suggestions . erdagon (2/24/2002 8:40). 
                       RE: a tactical concept ... littlepurplemonkey (2/24/2002 9:32). 
           a review ... bodycount (2/23/2002 8:11). 
       Givin it the ole' one two punch!!!!1 (NT) Broadsider (2/22/2002 22:29). 
           one word doomangel (2/22/2002 23:52). 
       I wonder where the GW DA specialist are . erdagon (2/23/2002 3:36). 
       My Army Thomo (2/23/2002 5:04).
           reviewing erdagon (2/23/2002 10:59). 
               RE: reviewing Thomo (2/24/2002 0:44). 
                   Uh , I forgot . erdagon (2/24/2002 3:24). 
           RE: My Army micahmbg (2/23/2002 11:04). 
       My really bad army list. :) littlepurplemonkey (2/23/2002 16:58). 
           Here goes erdagon (2/23/2002 20:36). 
               Thanks littlepurplemonkey (2/24/2002 14:55). 
       One small bump for man...... (NT) littlepurplemonkey (2/24/2002 17:25). 
           ...... but one big BUMP for mankind (NT) erdagon (2/25/2002 4:05). 
       Could you wise Grandmasters review this? Yaj (2/25/2002 7:00). 
           we could ; ))) bodycount (2/25/2002 8:27). 
           Thanks, bodycount!!, anymore? BUMP!!(NT) Yaj (2/25/2002 10:05). 
           Not sure if I'm wise , but anyway ...... erdagon (2/25/2002 12:30). 
               important question on force selection ... bodycount (2/25/2002 15:53). 
                   RE: important question on force selection ... GrandmasterUlysses (2/25/2002 16:15). 
                       welcome ... bodycount (2/25/2002 16:32). 
                   I don't know if you can count this as official but ...... erdagon (2/25/2002 23:59). 
       bumps for the bump god :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (2/26/2002 5:26). 
           and on the subject of nurgle ... bodycount (2/26/2002 5:39). 
               nurgle is just first :-) BloodAngelBrotherEdward (2/26/2002 14:07). 
                   A quick couple o' things (plus another boot to the front ;) irskin (3/8/2002 21:16). 
       Bodycount , do you think we're the only two DA Tactical masterminds ? ( and a free BUMP
 ofcourse) erdagon (2/26/2002 11:42). 
           I know this isn't meant for me, but littlepurplemonkey (2/26/2002 12:32). 
               Thanks . :) erdagon (2/26/2002 13:35). 
                   back on the thread ... bodycount (2/28/2002 7:27). 
       RE: DA Tactical Thread (Input please) danimalicious (2/26/2002 11:53). 
           RE: RE: DA Tactical Thread (Input please) littlepurplemonkey (2/26/2002 12:38). 
           a bag of tricks ... bodycount (2/28/2002 18:25). 
               Tricky indeed erdagon (2/28/2002 23:47). 
                   about the undead ... bodycount (3/1/2002 5:06). 
                       You're right . Almost . :p erdagon (3/1/2002 11:42). 
                           plasma frenzy ... bodycount (3/4/2002 3:52). 
       RE: DA Tactical Thread (Input please) deathdroidMK (2/26/2002 12:41). 
           Blood Angels trouble , eh ? erdagon (2/26/2002 13:30). 
               RE: Blood Angels trouble , eh ? deathdroidMK (2/27/2002 12:40). 
           reply aurion (2/26/2002 14:22). 
               ignore this im just posting so i can find the dang thread again my computer messed up
 (NT) irskin (3/8/2002 19:15). 
       What's our best HQ choice? Drazden (2/26/2002 16:54). 
           GM w Term Armor, Storm Bolter, and SoS (NT) aurion (2/26/2002 17:31). 
           best hq choice ? erdagon (2/27/2002 5:41). 
       Repent for Tommorow you Die!!!! Masterofthedeathwing (2/26/2002 18:09). 
           RE: Repent for Tommorow you Die!!!! danimalicious (2/26/2002 19:32). 
               twinlinked = 2kills ? No way . erdagon (2/26/2002 23:48). 
                   RE: twinlinked = 2kills ? No way . danimalicious (2/27/2002 10:55). 
                       I know . erdagon (2/27/2002 11:30). 
           A word in your ear ..... erdagon (2/26/2002 23:59). 
               RE: A word in your ear ..... Masterofthedeathwing (2/27/2002 17:18). 
                   I see . erdagon (2/28/2002 0:01). 
       Uhhhhh *BUMP* :)(N/T) Masterofthedeathwing (2/27/2002 8:40). 
       Confusion over Command Squads... Yaj (2/27/2002 8:41). 
           RE: Confusion over Command Squads... littlepurplemonkey (2/27/2002 11:13). 
           the Tac squad it is . erdagon (2/27/2002 11:56). 
           things have changed... aurion (2/27/2002 12:07). 
               RE: things have changed... danimalicious (2/27/2002 12:29). 
                   ravenwing goodness... aurion (2/27/2002 12:45). 
                       RE: ravenwing goodness... littlepurplemonkey (2/27/2002 12:59). 
                           RE: RE: ravenwing goodness... aurion (2/27/2002 13:29). 
                   RW command squads erdagon (2/27/2002 13:09). 
       Deathwing Armies... aurion (2/27/2002 13:35). 
           Deathwing Army erdagon (2/28/2002 0:08). 
       a bump for stewardofgondor, your newest Dark Angel (NT) BloodAngelBrotherEdward
 (2/27/2002 15:28). 
       RE: DA Tactical Thread (Input please) Glorfindel_888 (2/27/2002 17:48). 
       RE: DA Tactical Thread (Input please) Glorfindel_888 (2/28/2002 2:17). 
           a couple of thoughts (rivendell style, i guess ; ) bodycount (2/28/2002 10:18). 
               RE: a couple of thoughts (rivendell style, i guess ; ) Glorfindel_888 (2/28/2002 12:50). 
       Termie Sgt. Question littlepurplemonkey (2/28/2002 10:11). 
           RE: Termie Sgt. Question aurion (2/28/2002 10:47). 
           Termie Sgt. Answer bodycount (2/28/2002 10:46). 
           Termie Sgt. answer erdagon (2/28/2002 11:01). 
           RE: Termie Sgt. Question Glorfindel_888 (2/28/2002 13:44). 
               Don't know how official this is but ...... erdagon (2/28/2002 14:47). 
                   RE: Don't know how official this is but ...... Glorfindel_888 (3/1/2002 1:25). 
       2000 Ravenwing army list danimalicious (3/1/2002 2:05). 
           RE: 2000 Ravenwing army list irskin (3/8/2002 22:58). 
       Ravenwing characters danimalicious (3/1/2002 2:06). 
           RE: Ravenwing characters danimalicious (3/1/2002 2:24). 
               Good news for ya . erdagon (3/1/2002 11:37). 
       Thanks for all your responses! littlepurplemonkey (3/1/2002 13:45). 
       Is this too cheesy? Rate the cheese Glorfindel_888 (3/2/2002 15:19). 
           RE: Is this too cheesy? Rate the cheese Glorfindel_888 (3/2/2002 18:53). 
               Cheesy ? I thought you said that cheese doesn't excist . :p erdagon (3/3/2002 5:31). 
                   RE: Cheesy ? I thought you said that cheese doesn't excist . :p Glorfindel_888
 (3/3/2002 12:12). 
       Anyone know a quick way to save this thread? zeusss (3/3/2002 19:52). 
           RE: Isn't it called a bump iwantmyk (3/4/2002 1:05). 
           RE: Anyone know a quick way to save this thread? erdagon (3/4/2002 3:35). 
               Thanks Erdagon! And Brother Edward for hosting it! (NT) zeusss (3/5/2002 2:08). 
       RE: DA Tactical Thread (Input please) blackbone (3/4/2002 16:09). 
           True , but ...... erdagon (3/5/2002 0:45). 
       Recovered from page11 (in other words BUMP) (NT) erdagon (3/6/2002 12:55). 
           Ravenwing IC revisted! danimalicious (3/7/2002 2:34). 
       2 army lists for review danimalicious (3/8/2002 3:08). 
       Aaaah! What's that? It's a-a-a.... *Bump* Drazden (3/8/2002 10:25). 
       Could someone plz review my 2 lists thomo (3/8/2002 20:37). 
       Here's what I've got... irskin (3/8/2002 20:44). 
       Have a BUMP and a question on the top! irskin (3/8/2002 23:36). 
           Ah , Plasma death erdagon (3/9/2002 1:06). 
           blast 'em ! : ) bodycount (3/9/2002 5:07). 
       Speeder Question thomo (3/9/2002 5:43). 
           all depends on the point allowance ... bodycount (3/9/2002 6:35). 
           Ah , the RavenWing erdagon (3/9/2002 8:39). 
           RE: Speeder Question littlepurplemonkey (3/9/2002 9:01). 
               thank YOU first of all ... bodycount (3/9/2002 10:35). 
       A random quandry... irskin (3/9/2002 9:04). 
           translation ... bodycount (3/9/2002 10:24). 
               RE: translation ... irskin (3/9/2002 10:34). 
                   on names sources ... bodycount (3/9/2002 10:50). 
                       how many of you ... bodycount (3/9/2002 12:46). 
                           I think I've seen that book... irskin (3/9/2002 20:15). 
                               that elusive koth ridge ... bodycount (3/10/2002 4:39). 
       I'll probably be killed byyou for saying this but....are Dark Angels good?? Bologs (3/9/2002
 12:53). 
           a bit, i guess : ))) bodycount (3/9/2002 13:39). 
               Zeke for PM! :) littlepurplemonkey (3/9/2002 14:05). 
       ...I think it's finally just about dead... (NT) irskin (3/9/2002 23:14). 
           not dead yet! danimalicious (3/12/2002 2:11). 
               hard to kill, are we : ))) bodycount (3/12/2002 15:33). 
       Question about Lion Helm Glorfindel_888 (3/12/2002 12:19). 
           lion king : ))) bodycount (3/12/2002 15:44). 
       A second Question Glorfindel_888 (3/12/2002 14:56). 
           *all smiles* bodycount (3/12/2002 15:56). 
               RE: *all smiles* Glorfindel_888 (3/12/2002 18:04). 
                   see you on friday bodycount (3/12/2002 20:53). 
                   hey glorfindel, you out there? anybody else? bodycount (3/15/2002 5:58). 
       Still alive (barely) littlepurplemonkey (3/15/2002 11:19). 
           RE: Still alive (barely) danimalicious (3/15/2002 11:36). 
       Still here. WOO 200th post in this thread! Glorfindel_888 (3/15/2002 13:59). 
           ah, there you are ... bodycount (3/15/2002 18:08). 
               RE: ah, there you are ... Glorfindel_888 (3/16/2002 14:06). 
       littlepurplemonkey does a dance.... littlepurplemonkey (3/17/2002 17:09). 
           WHAT ?! : ))) LPM - i love you 'bro ... bodycount (3/17/2002 17:46). 
       Special characters revisited. littlepurplemonkey (3/18/2002 11:21). 
       Here goes mine... Too cheesy??? Melkaia (3/18/2002 12:08). 
 
 

  DA Tactical Thread (Input please) . (206 Replies). littlepurplemonkey[]. 2/20/2002 8:53 (3/18/2002 12:08) 
 Hello, could you Dark Angels guys give me some general tactical advice and force
 composition advice please.
 Thanks. 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       RE: DA Tactical Thread (Input please) . (1 Replies). Nogdred[]. 2/20/2002 9:00 (2/20/2002 9:15) 
 >> Hello, could you Dark Angels guys give me some general tactical advice and force
 composition advice please.
 >> Thanks.

 What sort of points value?? 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           Oh sign me up - I'm interested :-) . (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 2/20/2002 9:15
 (2/20/2002 9:15) 

 >> What sort of points value??

 Hello everyone!

 I must admit I do not know enough about the Dark Angels! I have the codex right here - but
 seeing as how I've never played them (nor seen them used firsthand) and ESPECIALLY since
 they just revamped the rules recently - I'd really like to hear your thoughts on general Dark
 Angel strengths and weaknesses. Go ahead and shoot for the 1500pt armies, and feel free to
 dive deep into tactics - I'll try my best to keep up :-)

 I look forward to seeing this thread develop :-)

 Glory to the Emperor and Sanguinius ~ Brother Edward

 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       army composition concepts (long) . (0 Replies). bodycount[]. 2/20/2002 9:31 (2/20/2002 9:31) 
 ok. here's my old post (so some may have well seen it already) but i think it'll fit the thread
 nicely (free bump included ;)))

 anyways, some of my rumblings about army composition concepts, with a spotlight cast on
 tactical squads. hope you enjoy it.

 you'll hear a lot of people say dark angels are a shooty army. i think there are two main
 reasons for that: the previous version of the intractable rule and the relative (compared to
 templars, wolves or blood angels) lack of an overwhelming HtH punch - like specialist units or
 weapon options (deathwing notwithstanding).

 dark angels also have as good fire power as any space marine army (hit on 3+, a wide range
 of firearms available). but also - as any space marines - they are tough, with solid WS, S and
 T, and of course 3+ armor save, so you can safely bet that they will fare in HtH just as well as
 in the shooting phase. last but not least, with the stubborn rule, you have an option to field
 "unbreakable" units.

 now, as the intractable rule is changed DA will -IMHO - appear more clearly for what i've
 been thinking of them all along - a multi purpose force, one that is equally capable of filling it in
 both long, and close ranges. therefore the task of a dark angels commander is to properly
 identify when to engage in a firefight and when to charge into a melee. and, of course, to use
 good tactics to achieve the maximum effectiveness of both.

 i like the "two swords" comparison - it takes more time to learn how to balance and wield
 them with skill, but once you do, you will always have an advantage over your opponents,
 possessing more tools to win the day than they have.

 and what other DA unit (or any SM unit for that matter) fits the “two swords” approach better
 than a tactical squad? they posses several advantages, like access to cheap heavy weapons,
 different transport options, vet sarge and his gear/stubborn rule, that make them ideal to
 effectively carry out almost every task you assign them on the battlefield: screen other troops,
 provide fire support, advance or head for an armored assault.

 i like to get as many tac sqds as possible. these basically fall into two categories: assault teams
 or fire support teams.

 assault-oriented tac squads need to be 10-strong. period. you cannot overestimate the
 numbers role in HtH. give them an assault weapon to add some punch to their pre-charging
 fire. i usually go for the meltagun, but against swarm armies you may feel a flamer is more like
 it. basically the melta gives you anti-armor and instant kill capabilities - and since you want to
 close with the enemy that may be useful. the flamer on the other hand is perfect for
 pre-charging fire as it offers target selection where you get to pick who's toast :))). always give
 the assault team frags, never bother with the kraks (at least as a general rule ;). if you decide
 you want to add a vet sarge to boost HtH capabilities of the unit remember about the point
 cost. a vet sarge is already a 30 pts investment with just a single wound. if you start piling
 weapons/wargear on him you may end up having a 1-wound character worth 60 points. my
 vet sarge either gets a power weapon (46 pts in total) or rarely a power fist/storm shield
 combo to offer some much-needed protection (it is 66 pts, but he gets an inv. 4+ save against
 1 opponent in HtH - usually armed with a power weapon or fist).

 my assault-oriented tac squads always ride in rhinos. extra armor and smokers for the grand
 total of 58 points - usually a safe bet to charge by turn 2.

 the other crucial type of tac squad is a fire support team. ideally 6 to 8 strong, with a missile
 launcher. the number of fire teams, and their equipment, depend on points distribution within
 your force. if you have enough heavy fire power elsewhere (dreadnoughts, vehicles,
 devastators) you’ll tend to take less tac squads for fire support purposes. i like to have
 100-point teams of 6 marines (sarge with bolter, 1 marine with a missile launcher). these can
 be expanded and modified (ie. add a plasma gun or extra marines), but i usually go with a
 cheap (100 pts) version and as many of such squads as possible for one main reason - i often
 use them to screen my other troops’ position or block the advance of enemy units. heck, they
 can even screen each other.

 in this way you are perfectly able to set up kill zones and drag your opponent into suicidal
 assaults. if he sweeping advances he buys it, if he consolidates - he buys it. and against certain
 units that have to sweeping advance you don’t even have to worry about 4-inch spacing
 between your units. of course this is not as easy as it sounds - if your opponent gets to charge
 several units at once then the small firing teams get the chop most of the time. but with proper
 shot selection, concentration of fire and taking out enemy transports they have a great
 opportunity to blast any opposition to bits.

 once the enemy has been purged with fire it’s time to administer the righteous retribution up
 close and personal and the DA characters come with 4 basic attacks. damn. IMHO if an A4
 model doesn't get into HtH it's a waste of points. so my leaders usually get a cmd squad and a
 transport. the alternative is an independent character on a bike or with a jump pack. but that
 means you either hide him behind other advancing units and he's going to support their assault
 or you need to look into getting an assault squad or ravenwing for the character to join.

 the obvious choice is a master or grandmaster. iron halo is a must. then - depending on the
 target: lighting claws or a power fist and bolt pistol. in case of a grand master, if the points
 allow it, the sword of secrets is always tempting. the next character of choice is a chaplain -
 coming with a power weapon and inv. save - yes, he's combat oriented (and point-eficient).
 librarians are tricky to use and expensive. so usually my last choice, although if a librarian with
 a command squad and weaken resolve power charges in, you can expect pretty good things
 to happen. and now that the librarian can have smite it adds to his versality.

 look carefully into cmd squad options - apothecary, techmarine and standard bearer are free
 upgrades that may be given weapons/wargear. that means you get an additional attack (bolt
 pistol and CCW) for a grand total of 2 points. nice. not to mention the time when my
 command squad wielded 5 power weapons. damn expensive (and not that much efficient) but
 fun.

 another way to utilise tac squads (or cmd. squads for that mater) is to create 6-men armored
 squads, riding in razorbacks. with that approach you will generally field between 4 to 6
 'backs, which gives a lot of mobile fire power that can be used for tank/transport busting. a
 mobile shooty force played to its strengths can be very difficult to contain.

 ok. so we have different configurations of tac squads (IMHO the main stay of any space
 marine army) and a an HQ or two (the command squad is essentially a tac squad with some
 extra options). remember about filling it in both long and close range? yes, that means we now
 get into some serious fire power, my two favorites being devastator squads and shooty
 dreadnoughts.

 a dev squad. sarge always gets a bolter and if the squad is in a razorback (TL lascan or lascan
 & TL plasma guns, don't take smokers- you want to shoot) i add a 6th marine, if not they are
 usually 7 or 8-strong. pick weapons according to target. and yes the razorback is a great
 addition - it assures that you get into a firing position in turn 1 and then it's a mobile firebase
 (vulnerable though - but hey, it takes fire off your other units). also, if your dev sqd ends up in
 reserves then a transport option will become vital to enter the battlefield and set up in the same
 turn.

 there is one more way to use devastators that I found useful - but it depends on army
 composition a lot. since a devastator and a tactical marine cost the same (weapon options
 notwithstanding) you can use them to create assault-teams or create more fire support teams
 (with 6 troops slots still open).

 finally the dreadnought. move six inches and fire two weapons - that is what you need for
 effective tank hunting and forcing advancing enemy units to change their position. armor 12
 gives you decent staying power. i always take the missile launcher upgrade, usually combined
 with TL lascans or an autocannon (taking weapons with the same range allows you to max out
 on fire power).

 these are IMHO the basic army composition concepts for the DA. once grasped, you are at a
 perfect position to expand, adding units that will boost your tac sqds capabilities - assault
 squads, ravenwing, deathwing, scouts. but unless playing an all DW or RW army, I have
 found that tac squads and that "two swords" approach is the ultimate winner.

 good hunting,

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       oh well, there goes another tactical thread : ( . (3 Replies). bodycount[]. 2/20/2002 10:12 (2/28/2002
 7:25) 
 
 

 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           :( - thnx for your input though - cmon answer guys - please! . (2 Replies).
 littlepurplemonkey[]. 2/20/2002 11:13 (2/28/2002 7:25) 

 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               RE: :( - thnx for your input though - cmon answer guys - please! . (0 Replies). micahmbg[].
 2/20/2002 11:49 (2/20/2002 11:49) 
 >> 

 Having played Dark Angels a lot I can offer some advice...
 Though Bodycount did a wonderful job! and didnt leave much out...

 But I do feel I can expand a bit perhaps...

 Dark Angels and 'Vanilla' marines have some similarties in that both are very versatile, but in
 my opinion, one thing that gives Dark Angels some oooomph is the stubborn ability/we won't
 fall back from shooting now abilty. This makes them ideal for take/hold missions as well as
 any mission where they have to go someplace on the board, and then not leave (Dawn
 Assault, Cleanse, Recon etc). My usuall strategy is to give my force Rhinos (Razorbacks as
 well) and spend the first turn moving to where I want/need my guys. Then I unload and sit.
 Granted this does not work for every mission, but for those missions it is grand. Space
 Marines are tough to move as is, fearless (thanks to stubborn) are even tougher. For this role I
 usually take a missile launcher and plasma gun in a 10 man squad, but if I can squeeze it in the
 points a plasma cannon (obviousoly just started this). Although not often thought of as the
 most mobile of armies (with the exception of the Ravenwing) I think that a force in Rhino's
 combined with some Ravenwing units makes for not only a very flexable/mobile force but it
 also makes what is not a close combat heavy army able to move up and assault quite well.
 Well, those are my two thoughts: oh and my army list:

 Librarian in terminator armor, lightning claw, storm bolter.
 -Command Section: 4 Marines with bolters
 -Mounted in 'normal' Land Raider

 (i know pricy when the LR is thrown in but wait and see the rest of the force :) )

 Tac Squad: 10, 7 bolters, 1 plasma gun, 1 missile launcher,Vet Sgt with power weapon and
 bolt pistol, mounted in a Rhino with extra armor and smoke launchers.

 Tac Squad: 10, 7 bolters, 1 plasma gun, 1 missile launcher, Sgt, mounted in a Rhino with extra
 armor and smoke launchers.

 Tac Squad: 6, 4 bolters, 1 melta gun, Vet Sgt with plasma pistol and close combat weapon,
 mounted in a Razorback with twin lascannons.

 Tac Squad: 6, 4 bolters, 1 plasma gun (may change to a flamer, though not sure), Vet Sgt with
 plasma pistol and close combat weapon, mounted in a Razorback with twin lascannons.

 Ravenwing Land Speeder Squadron: 2 speeders, 2 assault cannons. (fire support role)

 Vindicator Assault Tank

 Predator Ahnilator with lascannon sponsons.

 Total Force: 1700

 Best of luck to all 
 Micah

 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               bumps for the bump god . (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 2/28/2002 7:25 (2/28/2002
 7:25) 
 bumps for the bump god 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       my DA tactics . (4 Replies). aurion[]. 2/20/2002 12:19 (2/21/2002 9:20) 
 Well, here goes, I'll add my bit to this thread.

 Below is a brief synopsis of a "typical" list for me:

 HQ - Grand Master w/ Term Armor and Sword of Secrets

 TROOPS - 4x Tactical Squads (2 w/ Plasma Cannon/Plasmagun and 2 w/ Heavy
 Bolter/Meltagun) - All get Vet Sgts w/ Stubborn & Auspex

 FAST - Assault Squad w/ 2 Plasma Pistols & Stubborn Sgt w/ PWpn

 HEAVY - Dev Squad w/ 2 Missile Launchers and 2 Lascannon w/ Stubborn Sgt w/ Auspex

 That is around 1500 points. We usually play with 1700 so you will see a little more variety in
 the army. Usually a Whirlwind and a Predator Annihilator. All the squads are maxed out in
 size. We usually know the scenario ahead of time so we can prepare for that. Really sucks to
 show up to a Breakthrough with an infantry army. The most common scenario we play is
 Cleanse, hence the above list.

 Usually in a Cleanse mission I will stand still and shoot as much as possible for about 3 turns. I
 use the Assault Squad to intercept opponent's Fast Attack and keep them off my shooters.
 The Grand Master also fills that role, attacking the odd unit (such as summoned daemons or
 such) that makes it into my quadrant. I don't worry so much about eliminating squads as I do
 about reducing them below half strength to keep them from controlling quadrants.

 The Devs engage enemy armor, preferably Dreadnoughts and Transport vehicles, then switch
 to an anti-personnel role when necessary. If I am facing Imperial Guard with heavy tanks I will
 use the Assault Squad (which has Meltabombs) to get them (hopefully). I just have to break a
 hole in the enemy lines to do it. I usually don't bother shooting at the AV14 Lemans. It's not
 worth wasting a whole squad shooting to hopefully scratch the paint. If you take out the rest of
 his army the Lemans won't do him much good anyway.

 I used to put Missile Lauchers in my Tac Squads for anti-personnel templates but the Plasma
 Cannons now fill that role (much better I might add). I will concentrate firepower for the first
 three turns to take down as many enemy as I can at range. When I set up I place the my tac
 squads as close to the quadrant edges as I can (terrain and fire lanes allowing) so I can get
 across in one turn. Usually by the time I am crossing the enemy is close enough for me to
 shoot with my rapid fire weapons even on the move.

 Well, that's about it. My Dark Angels are about as shooty as you can get but I have enough
 models to field at least three Dreadnoughts plus Attack Bikes, Land Speeders, Terminators,
 Land Raiders, etc. Like I said, we usually know the scenario beforehand so I can tailor the
 army to meet my needs.

 Just last week I played 1700 points against Tyranids in a Cleanse mission and wiped out his
 army save for two Warrior squads he was using to hold table quarters (one of which I
 contested). I controlled two quarters hands down. In the game I lost only 6 models: my two
 plasma cannons blew themselves up (it happens), two models to acid blood (I don't think I've
 ever made an acid blood save, it's creepy), and two models to his attacks. I did have the
 Predator and Whirlwind to help in that game.

 And I am known to be the WORST roller in our gaming group. The dice gods hate me.

 Cheers and happy gaming,

 Aurion 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           anyone...Beuller? . (1 Replies). aurion[]. 2/20/2002 13:41 (2/20/2002 14:36) 
 >> Well, here goes, I'll add my bit to this thread.
 >> 
 >> Below is a brief synopsis of a "typical" list for me:
 >> 
 >> HQ - Grand Master w/ Term Armor and Sword of Secrets
 >> 
 >> TROOPS - 4x Tactical Squads (2 w/ Plasma Cannon/Plasmagun and 2 w/ Heavy
 Bolter/Meltagun) - All get Vet Sgts w/ Stubborn & Auspex
 >> 
 >> FAST - Assault Squad w/ 2 Plasma Pistols & Stubborn Sgt w/ PWpn
 >> 
 >> HEAVY - Dev Squad w/ 2 Missile Launchers and 2 Lascannon w/ Stubborn Sgt w/
 Auspex
 >> 
 >> That is around 1500 points. We usually play with 1700 so you will see a little more variety
 in the army. Usually a Whirlwind and a Predator Annihilator. All the squads are maxed out in
 size. We usually know the scenario ahead of time so we can prepare for that. Really sucks to
 show up to a Breakthrough with an infantry army. The most common scenario we play is
 Cleanse, hence the above list.
 >> 
 >> Usually in a Cleanse mission I will stand still and shoot as much as possible for about 3
 turns. I use the Assault Squad to intercept opponent's Fast Attack and keep them off my
 shooters. The Grand Master also fills that role, attacking the odd unit (such as summoned
 daemons or such) that makes it into my quadrant. I don't worry so much about eliminating
 squads as I do about reducing them below half strength to keep them from controlling
 quadrants.
 >> 
 >> The Devs engage enemy armor, preferably Dreadnoughts and Transport vehicles, then
 switch to an anti-personnel role when necessary. If I am facing Imperial Guard with heavy
 tanks I will use the Assault Squad (which has Meltabombs) to get them (hopefully). I just have
 to break a hole in the enemy lines to do it. I usually don't bother shooting at the AV14
 Lemans. It's not worth wasting a whole squad shooting to hopefully scratch the paint. If you
 take out the rest of his army the Lemans won't do him much good anyway.
 >> 
 >> I used to put Missile Lauchers in my Tac Squads for anti-personnel templates but the
 Plasma Cannons now fill that role (much better I might add). I will concentrate firepower for
 the first three turns to take down as many enemy as I can at range. When I set up I place the
 my tac squads as close to the quadrant edges as I can (terrain and fire lanes allowing) so I can
 get across in one turn. Usually by the time I am crossing the enemy is close enough for me to
 shoot with my rapid fire weapons even on the move.
 >> 
 >> Well, that's about it. My Dark Angels are about as shooty as you can get but I have
 enough models to field at least three Dreadnoughts plus Attack Bikes, Land Speeders,
 Terminators, Land Raiders, etc. Like I said, we usually know the scenario beforehand so I
 can tailor the army to meet my needs.
 >> 
 >> Just last week I played 1700 points against Tyranids in a Cleanse mission and wiped out
 his army save for two Warrior squads he was using to hold table quarters (one of which I
 contested). I controlled two quarters hands down. In the game I lost only 6 models: my two
 plasma cannons blew themselves up (it happens), two models to acid blood (I don't think I've
 ever made an acid blood save, it's creepy), and two models to his attacks. I did have the
 Predator and Whirlwind to help in that game.
 >> 
 >> And I am known to be the WORST roller in our gaming group. The dice gods hate me.
 >> 
 >> Cheers and happy gaming,
 >> 
 >> Aurion 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               RE: anyone...Beuller? . (0 Replies). micahmbg[]. 2/20/2002 14:36 (2/20/2002 14:36) 
 >> >> Well, here goes, I'll add my bit to this thread.
 >> >> 
 >> >> Below is a brief synopsis of a "typical" list for me:
 >> >> 
 >> >> HQ - Grand Master w/ Term Armor and Sword of Secrets
 >> >> 
 >> >> TROOPS - 4x Tactical Squads (2 w/ Plasma Cannon/Plasmagun and 2 w/ Heavy
 Bolter/Meltagun) - All get Vet Sgts w/ Stubborn & Auspex
 >> >> 
 >> >> FAST - Assault Squad w/ 2 Plasma Pistols & Stubborn Sgt w/ PWpn
 >> >> 
 >> >> HEAVY - Dev Squad w/ 2 Missile Launchers and 2 Lascannon w/ Stubborn Sgt w/
 Auspex
 >> >> 
 >> >> That is around 1500 points. We usually play with 1700 so you will see a little more
 variety in the army. Usually a Whirlwind and a Predator Annihilator. All the squads are maxed
 out in size. We usually know the scenario ahead of time so we can prepare for that. Really
 sucks to show up to a Breakthrough with an infantry army. The most common scenario we
 play is Cleanse, hence the above list.
 >> >> 
 >> >> Usually in a Cleanse mission I will stand still and shoot as much as possible for about 3
 turns. I use the Assault Squad to intercept opponent's Fast Attack and keep them off my
 shooters. The Grand Master also fills that role, attacking the odd unit (such as summoned
 daemons or such) that makes it into my quadrant. I don't worry so much about eliminating
 squads as I do about reducing them below half strength to keep them from controlling
 quadrants.
 >> >> 
 >> >> The Devs engage enemy armor, preferably Dreadnoughts and Transport vehicles, then
 switch to an anti-personnel role when necessary. If I am facing Imperial Guard with heavy
 tanks I will use the Assault Squad (which has Meltabombs) to get them (hopefully). I just have
 to break a hole in the enemy lines to do it. I usually don't bother shooting at the AV14
 Lemans. It's not worth wasting a whole squad shooting to hopefully scratch the paint. If you
 take out the rest of his army the Lemans won't do him much good anyway.
 >> >> 
 >> >> I used to put Missile Lauchers in my Tac Squads for anti-personnel templates but the
 Plasma Cannons now fill that role (much better I might add). I will concentrate firepower for
 the first three turns to take down as many enemy as I can at range. When I set up I place the
 my tac squads as close to the quadrant edges as I can (terrain and fire lanes allowing) so I can
 get across in one turn. Usually by the time I am crossing the enemy is close enough for me to
 shoot with my rapid fire weapons even on the move.
 >> >> 
 >> >> Well, that's about it. My Dark Angels are about as shooty as you can get but I have
 enough models to field at least three Dreadnoughts plus Attack Bikes, Land Speeders,
 Terminators, Land Raiders, etc. Like I said, we usually know the scenario beforehand so I
 can tailor the army to meet my needs.
 >> >> 
 >> >> Just last week I played 1700 points against Tyranids in a Cleanse mission and wiped
 out his army save for two Warrior squads he was using to hold table quarters (one of which I
 contested). I controlled two quarters hands down. In the game I lost only 6 models: my two
 plasma cannons blew themselves up (it happens), two models to acid blood (I don't think I've
 ever made an acid blood save, it's creepy), and two models to his attacks. I did have the
 Predator and Whirlwind to help in that game.
 >> >> 
 >> >> And I am known to be the WORST roller in our gaming group. The dice gods hate
 me.
 >> >> 
 >> >> Cheers and happy gaming,
 >> >> 
 >> >> Aurion

 Looks good...might suffer from some problems should it have to assault a strong point or
 something, but like you said, you can swap units to fit the mission...
 good job
 Micah 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           an important principle . (1 Replies). bodycount[]. 2/21/2002 5:42 (2/21/2002 9:20) 
 >> Usually in a Cleanse mission ... I don't worry so much about eliminating squads as I do
 about reducing them below half strength to keep them from controlling quadrants.

 preceisely ... that is an important but often overlooked principle - you don't have to kill things
 to contain their threat. in your avarege 40k battle you'll see people trying to blast/chop enemy
 units instead of neutralizing threats they pose.

 >> I used to put Missile Lauchers in my Tac Squads for anti-personnel templates but the
 Plasma Cannons now fill that role (much better I might add). 

 ha - that's my favourite debate lately. missile launcher or plasma cannon? what do i give to my
 tac squads? well, i have to say that i like to stick with the ol' good ML for several reasons. no
 1 is 48" range. not only that means you have larger control zone (area in which you can
 engage the enemy) but also it offers great protection for your tac squad (yes, range is a good
 measure of protection).

 secondly IMHO it offers unmatched versality being able to provide tank busting capability,
 anti-infantry punch and may be usedto instant kill T4. finally it's just 10 pts.

 i do recognize the value of the plasma cannon but i treat it as a "special" weapon, rather than
 standard issue. a clasic weapon of choice against SM or CSM armies though ;)

 >> I lost ... and two models to his attacks.

 against 'nids ?! oh brother *all smiles*

 >> And I am known to be the WORST roller in our gaming group. The dice gods hate me.

 "be blessed, the gracious powers of snake eyes and boxed cars, and let aurion roll his way to
 glory"

 happy rolling,

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               RE: an important principle . (0 Replies). aurion[]. 2/21/2002 9:20 (2/21/2002 9:20) 
 >> preceisely ... that is an important but often overlooked principle - you don't have to kill
 things to contain their threat. in your avarege 40k battle you'll see people trying to blast/chop
 enemy units instead of neutralizing threats they pose.
 >> 

 Which is why it is so easy to beat the Blood Angel, Space Wolf, World Eater, Tyranid type
 armies around here. Those players seem to be the greatest subscribers to the "kill them all"
 theory of 40k. I think part of it has to do with playing the strengths of their armies but then
 they get a little too wrapped up in the "charge-charge-charge" mentality.

 I do have a complete Space Wolf army still in the boxes/blisters and am looking forward to
 putting them together when I am finished painting my Dark Angels. I also have an undefeated
 Ork army that gets SERIOUSLY underestimated and really bites people in the butt when they
 are not careful. Funny thing is that my Orks are even more shooty than my Dark Angels. And
 I have a better win score with them.

 My biggest problem with my DA is their relative lack of mobility. I am not a big fan of putting
 Rhinos in my tac squads and I don't have any veterans to use them with. I usually depend too
 much on the odd assault squad, attack bike, or land speeder for mobile support but
 occasionally (as with a rescue mission I played a coupla weeks ago) that is not enough. The
 rescue mission was a draw because I couldn't run my tac squad from a daemon prince fast
 enough and he was able to assault and kill the token bearer on the final turn.

 >> >> I used to put Missile Lauchers in my Tac Squads for anti-personnel templates but the
 Plasma Cannons now fill that role (much better I might add). 
 >> 
 >> ha - that's my favourite debate lately. missile launcher or plasma cannon? what do i give to
 my tac squads? well, i have to say that i like to stick with the ol' good ML for several reasons.

 >> 

 The missile launcher IS an excellent choice for the tac squad. I really like the scare value of the
 plasma cannon, though. It draws a lot of attention from my devs and ridiculously vulnerable
 tanks and dreadnoughts. Plus when I can get multi-wound models (such as thousand sons)
 under the template I can usually cause more than one wound to the squad and the opponent
 has to remove whole models anyway. I can usually kill off a TSon and still have a wound on
 the squad remaining for next turns shot.

 >> secondly IMHO it offers unmatched versality being able to provide tank busting capability,
 anti-infantry punch and may be usedto instant kill T4. finally it's just 10 pts.
 >> 

 With the Plasma Cannon I can crack anything short of a Land Raider or Leman Russ (and I
 can usually wiggle out a side shot on the Leman). I do lose the instant kill against T4 but, like I
 said, if you do enough wounds to the unit and they apply even one to the multi-wound model
 (or models) they have to keep applying the wounds to that same model until it is dead. Plus
 my tac squads are always to the front of my lines so range is not usually an issue.

 >> i do recognize the value of the plasma cannon but i treat it as a "special" weapon, rather
 than standard issue. a clasic weapon of choice against SM or CSM armies though ;)
 >> 

 It works well against tyranids (especially Tyrant Guard) also. And it may be overkill against
 other armies but I'll accept that. ;)

 >> >> I lost ... and two models to his attacks.
 >> 
 >> against 'nids ?! oh brother *all smiles*
 >> 

 It was a glorious day. But, then again, I haven't lost to the Tyranids (yet!) with my Dark
 Angels and I have been playing for about 2 years now. I find most people play the 'nids in
 such a limited fashion (charge-eat-charge) that they are easy to counter tactically. The other
 players, that use them wisely, force me to adapt quickly.

 >> >> And I am known to be the WORST roller in our gaming group. The dice gods hate
 me.
 >> 
 >> "be blessed, the gracious powers of snake eyes and boxed cars, and let aurion roll his way
 to glory"
 >> 

 Thank you, my brother-marine, but good die rolls may take my edge away and make me
 complacent. I'll settle with being blessed with mediocre die rolls and clarity of vision what to
 do with them.

 And the same for you.

 Aurion Shidhe 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       back to the front with this one! :-) . (2 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 2/20/2002 16:02
 (2/21/2002 23:54) 
 kerthwack!
 ~ Brother Edward - always finding things he should know more about! 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           angels, unite : ))) . (1 Replies). bodycount[]. 2/21/2002 7:58 (2/21/2002 23:54) 
 welcome brother edward - nice to see you interested in the "other" kind of angels :)))

 >> I must admit I do not know enough about the Dark Angels! I have the codex right here -
 but seeing as how I've never played them (nor seen them used firsthand) and ESPECIALLY
 since they just revamped the rules recently - I'd really like to hear your thoughts on general
 Dark Angel strengths and weaknesses.

 the funny thing about the general strengths and weaknesses of dark angels is that they are, as
 micahmbg already noticed in this thread, very similar to vanilla marines. of course that
 concerns a standard dark angels army and not the pure deathwing or ravenwing armies. this
 puts a DA commander at a considerable advantage, at least source-wise, as almost all good
 pointers for SM will ba applicable to DA (and vice versa).

 so first, let's have a guided tour through the specifc elements for a DA army. we have two
 special rules that are chapter specific - stubborn and intractable - which have a strong
 influence on our strategies. the stubborn rule is plain and simple: all deathwing members are
 stubborn (apart form master of the ravenwing) and they confer this ability to any squad they
 lead (vet sarge can be made stubborn at +5 pts). so we might have an entire army made
 stubborn and, as you probably already know, that translates into units unbreakable in HtH
 (auto pass morale checks, even if would otherwise automatically fail) that will not break their
 advance if taking heavy casualities. notice that they can still be pinned though.

 another point of discussion is whether one should make tac squads stubborn. well, there are
 two trade off to make: 1) you have to pay 20 pts (for vet sarge upgrade and stubborn) and 2)
 you cannot voluntarily fall back. all in all, i got used to have my shock troops (character led
 cmd squad and terminators) to be stubborn, but i rarely make other troops stubborn, save for
 an assault-oriented tac squad for tying up enemy special assault units.

 the second rule, as you have pointed out, has been revamped. being intractable is no longer
 "can't move on a roll of 1 if within etc." but now means that if a unit takes 25% casualities in
 enemy shooting phase they do not fall back but cannot move or assault in their next turn (with
 shooting as normal). very useful for defensive missions, but the biggest advantage is still the
 replacement of the old rule ;).

 we have some other special rules (like restricionts to allies, reaction to the fallen etc.) but they
 have limited influence in game terms, although are great to make up characterful scenarios and
 campaigns.

 the most specific and recognizable elements are naturally the deathwing and ravenwing - but
 since these require an altogether diferent approach i'll skip them for now. we're after genereal
 S&W after all. other specific elements include plasma cannons available in tac squads.
 cheaper terminator armor for indendendent characters (which is fine, as they already had a
 higher point cost to include terminator honorus), a 4 to 9 strong cmd squad, librarians being
 able to pick either weaken resolve or the good ol' smite.

 so as you could see the DA are very much like vanilla marines only better :))). being able to go
 stubborn, field deathwing (IMHO the ultimate terminators) and ravenwing makes them more
 effective as they are perfectly able to add extra boost to a given area: fast attack, fire support
 etc. they tend to be less assault oriented as they do not have any special troops (like honour
 guard or DC or vet assault marines).

 the general tactics IMHO would therefore include at least three variants:

 - make the core of your force support your elites or shock troops, so that they are able to
 perform their role and are not hindered by enemy threats,
 - play a classic shooty army, whit units screening and supporting each other,
 - play a mobile, tac-heavy force that can easily redeploy during battle.

 i would like to hear other opinions on this and then have them analyzed in detail.

 so much for an introduction to ordo angelorum caliginis. hope you enjoyed it. keep an eye on
 this thread, we'll try to make it worthwhile.

 nothing is forgotten,
 nothing is forgiven,

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum

 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               greetings brothers! :-) . (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 2/21/2002 23:54 (2/21/2002
 23:54) 
 >> welcome brother edward - nice to see you interested in the "other" kind of angels :)))
 >> 

 +++++ why thank you bodycount! You are most gracious :-) So many fun armies - so little
 time! :-) oops - looks like I bumped this back to the front again - I'm so clumsy :-)

 bwahahahahaa

 Glory to the Emperor ~ Brother Edward
 http://www.dragonrealm.com/exlibrismortis 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       Things that go bump in the night. (NT) (NT) . (0 Replies). littlepurplemonkey[]. 2/20/2002 17:56
 (2/20/2002 17:56) 
 No Text 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       RE: DA Tactical Thread (Input please) . (13 Replies). danimalicious[]. 2/20/2002 21:13 (3/4/2002 15:28) 
 I must admit to a certain lack of experience, generally speaking, but I would like to point out
 nonetheless that just because Dark Angels are viewed as a primarily shooty army, assault units
 should be ignored. Not to say that anyone has said this, but just in case you were thinking of
 filling up on more tactical troops - well, don't. I like using an Interragator-chaplain with a Jump
 Pack and letting him fight with an Assault Squad. Granted, I have to let them sit for one or
 even two turns in cover, but then I let loose and them cleave through the flank of my
 opponenet. 

 I have found success particularly because I've used a Ravenwing bike squad (vet sgt w/
 power weapon, 1 normal bike, 1 flamer and one attack bike with Heavy Bolter) to soften up
 a unit before the assault squad and chaplain make their move. Additionally, scouts can pin one
 unit, or a tactical squad can try to cut one unit off, so to speak, thereby eliminating threats
 from enemy units that could feasibly support the assault squad's target unity. Too many
 subjects in that sentence, but I think you know what I mean.

 And like others have said, mount as much as you can, or use jump-packs, and keep your
 marines on the move. Well, not too much so that htey can actually use their bolters, but by no
 means let the Ravenwing hog all the glory with fast vehicles.

 One question I'd like to raise, which speaks more generally to Space Marines rather than
 Dark Angels, is the use of Terminators. They are expensive and seem to have limited
 usefulness. Let's assume we don't teleport them into battle or give them a Land Raider. They
 are slow and have a relatively short ranged weapon. Yes, you can throw in an assault cannon,
 heavy flamer or even a cyclone, but not that many (go Deathwing - 2 heavy weapons!). And
 even then, say you go with a cyclone, then you're mixing ranges on weaponry. Furthermore,
 their standard issue CCW, despite its bonuses, can be problematic since it will always strike
 last, and any opponent worth his/her salt will throw power weapons galore at this unit to
 induce the 5+ save, which isn't that good. AND, once in close combat, and say that the
 terminators are stuck in a squad of termagants or cultists, that storm bolter jsut seems like it's
 going to be in the way. And so, is there a point to fielding a Terminator Squad that is not
 assault oriented?

 I would be more than happy to take a squad of Deathwing, give them a Heavy
 Flamer/Chainfist, Assault Cannon/power fist, 2 x lightning claw pairs, and then the Sgt. I
 would probably want to mount them in a Land Raider (ideally a Crusader) to get them into
 comabt really fast. But that's a lot of points right there. A lot. 

 So, those are my (probably) baseless comments on terminators - I don't use them often, nor
 do I like the lack of mobility and flexibility that characters in terminator armor must accept, so
 I don't use the armor often, either. But maybe I'm mis-understanding something, so please, do
 let me know what the key is to an effective Deathwing. 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           a reply... . (2 Replies). aurion[]. 2/21/2002 2:17 (2/25/2002 5:17) 
 >> I must admit to a certain lack of experience, generally speaking, but I would like to point
 out nonetheless that just because Dark Angels are viewed as a primarily shooty army, assault
 units should be ignored. Not to say that anyone has said this, but just in case you were
 thinking of filling up on more tactical troops - well, don't. I like using an Interragator-chaplain
 with a Jump Pack and letting him fight with an Assault Squad. Granted, I have to let them sit
 for one or even two turns in cover, but then I let loose and them cleave through the flank of
 my opponenet. 
 >> 

 I play a VERY shooty Dark Angel army but that doesn't mean that I discount their assault
 ability. As a general rule I like to keep at least one squad per army in a dedicated assault/fast
 attack role. To do otherwise is to limit your tactical flexibility. And isn't that what the marines
 are all about.

 Heck, just the normal tactical marines are no joke in HtH combat. They just aren't great at it.
 And the fact that you cannot take Veterans to equip with pistols, CCWs, and Rhinos limits
 you to very expensive (or very slow if you remove the jump packs) assault squads or bike
 squads as your primary fast assault units. 

 I tend to use scouts in an assault role also. You'd be suprised what 5 normal scouts, 4
 shotgunners, and a vet sgt. with a power weapon can do in HtH.

 So I just went to the other extreme and maxed out my shooting ability. That guarantees that
 when I actually do assault anyone they have been well mauled by my gunners beforehand.

 Additionally, scouts can pin one unit, or a tactical squad can try to cut one unit off, so to
 speak, thereby eliminating threats from enemy units that could feasibly support the assault
 squad's target unity. Too many subjects in that sentence, but I think you know what I mean.
 >> 

 Good point. I try really hard to isolate enemy units with gunfire before assaulting them to limit
 their support. At the same time, I never assault an enemy unit (if I can help it) without some
 sort of support nearby (such as a tac squad to gun down enemy units moving to "assault my
 assaulters").

 >> And like others have said, mount as much as you can, or use jump-packs, and keep your
 marines on the move. Well, not too much so that htey can actually use their bolters, but by no
 means let the Ravenwing hog all the glory with fast vehicles.
 >> 

 Go for it if that is the type of army you choose. I just think that there are better mobile SM
 armies out there that the DA. Such as any army that can give their troops pistols and CCWs
 or that can take Veterans that can do the same.

 >> One question I'd like to raise, which speaks more generally to Space Marines rather than
 Dark Angels, is the use of Terminators. And so, is there a point to fielding a Terminator Squad
 that is not assault oriented?
 >> 

 I whole-heartedly agree with you on this point. I really only ever field termies in a LR
 Crusader and always load them for HtH action.

 >> So, those are my (probably) baseless comments on terminators - I don't use them often,
 nor do I like the lack of mobility and flexibility that characters in terminator armor must accept,
 so I don't use the armor often, either. But maybe I'm mis-understanding something, so please,
 do let me know what the key is to an effective Deathwing.

 I'm still trying to figure out a good DW army myself. The only good I've done with these guys
 so far is to teleport them onto the table loaded for bear (an assault cannon and missile
 launcher in every squad) and gunned the enemy down.

 Aurion Shidhe 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               RE: Scout w/Shotguns . (1 Replies). smailliwat[]. 2/24/2002 20:47 (2/25/2002 5:17) 
 >> I tend to use scouts in an assault role also. You'd be suprised what 5 normal scouts, 4
 shotgunners, and a vet sgt. with a power weapon can do in HtH.

 How has the new assault rules affected your shooting before going into an assault with
 shotguns?
 

 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                   RE: Scout w/Shotguns . (0 Replies). bodycount[]. 2/25/2002 5:17 (2/25/2002 5:17) 
 >> >> I tend to use scouts in an assault role also. You'd be suprised what 5 normal scouts, 4
 shotgunners, and a vet sgt. with a power weapon can do in HtH.
 >> 
 >> How has the new assault rules affected your shooting before going into an assault with
 shotguns?

 with the beta rules ver. 2.0 i'd say that you have to get REALLY close to not shoot yourself
 out of charge range (ver. 2.0 states that you can charge the unit you have previously fired at).

 if these rules become official they will greatly affect terminators and (to a lesser extent)
 dreadnoughts. the bread and butter of terminators' use was shoot one target and charge
 another (with their awsome fire power within 24" you never really wanted to shoot and charge
 the same unit ;). so IMHO these troops will find the new rules disadvantageous. 

 on the other hand you'll see poeple making choices - do i charge form way over here and not
 shoot (for obvious reasons ;) or do i try to get closer and in next turn shoot and charge. and
 one more thing. flamers will become much more popular (close range & target selection).

 i could go on and grumble about the beta rules but i'd better do it on game development board
 :)

 thanks for your input on this thread - that was a good question you asked. we wait for more
 ...

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           on deathwing and other issues . (9 Replies). bodycount[]. 2/21/2002 4:22 (3/4/2002 15:28) 
 greetings battle brother,

 >> One question I'd like to raise, which speaks more generally to Space Marines rather than
 Dark Angels, is the use of Terminators. They are expensive and seem to have limited
 usefulness.

 before we get deeper into the subject, i'd like to point out one general remark. try to think of
 the terminators as SPECILIZED rather than having limited usefullness. this will help you realize
 that they can be extremely useful - to the point of being the MVU (most valuable unit :))) - if
 you are able to recognize their role on the battlefield and use them in that particular role with
 maximum effectiveness. i know it may sound a bit old, but it's one of the basic concepts
 behind general tactis - play to your strengths. now in case of deathwing, it looks even better
 than in case of standard SM termies, as you have an extremely flexible squad structure at your
 disposal: being able to take two heavy weapons of your choice (yes, that means you usually
 take the same) and the ability to combine heavy wepons, storm bolter/power fists and assault
 weapons in one squad. but remember that although DW are more universal and flexible they
 are still a SPECIALIZED unit and require specific use.

 >> Let's assume we don't teleport them into battle or give them a Land Raider. They are slow
 and have a relatively short ranged weapon.

 as any space marines that are on foot without transport ;). but i see your point - you have 47
 pts per model slugging it out through the mud. we'll get there soon.

 >> Yes, you can throw in an assault cannon, heavy flamer or even a cyclone, but not that
 many (go Deathwing - 2 heavy weapons!). And even then, say you go with a cyclone, then
 you're mixing ranges on weaponry. 

 IMHO the concept o mixing ranges generally applies to heavy weapons -i.e. an assault
 cannon and cyclone would be a mixed range (that is why i preach taking the same two heavy
 weapons within the squad). on a similar note: i wouldn't call a tac squad with missile launcher,
 plasma gun and bolters having mixed ranges. they simply max out on fire power within 24"
 range. as is the case with terminators. however, terminators have move&shoot capability
 (firing heavy weapons and having storm bolters) which makes them extremely deadly while on
 the move as well. give iit a thought. a squad with two cyclones has fire power comparable to a
 dreadnought with TL lascans and missile launcher at 25"+ and much better (not to mention
 versatile) fire power at 24" and less.

 >> Furthermore, their standard issue CCW, despite its bonuses, can be problematic since it
 will always strike last, and any opponent worth his/her salt will throw power weapons galore
 at this unit to induce the 5+ save, which isn't that good. AND, once in close combat, and say
 that the terminators are stuck in a squad of termagants or cultists, that storm bolter jsut seems
 like it's going to be in the way. And so, is there a point to fielding a Terminator Squad that is
 not assault oriented?

 to answer your questions one at a time. what is the standard issue of terminators? remember
 remember what i said inthe beginning? IMHO there is NO standard issue. termies are too
 specialized (and point expensive) for that. so what is their role you may ask? it is the task you
 need them to perform within a particular army list, against a particular opponent or in a
 particular mission, as long as you don't put them in a suicide run. i realize that it sound corny
 but look - and let's concentarte on your case - no transport and no deep strike:

 - in any mission that involves defence, take and hold or a similar task (or any battlefield that
 has terrain forming firing lanes and protecting you form being shot at from all around)
 terminators are superb: T4, 2+ armor save (5+ inv.) can change firing position and still fire in
 the same turn, get off a voley of shots (storm bolters, backed up by assault cannons), can
 have tank busting capabilities (cyclones). go ahead. engage in 24" firefights. if the enemy
 makes it to your lines and you're in cover you strike simultaneously ! if not you have he most
 staying power of all marines units and you should easily get to retaliate - with power fists and
 power weapons - perfectly able to take down any and all foes.

 - in advance-type misssions you have to walk it. so let's make the best of it. you can screen
 your approaching termies with scouts (enemy models block LOS) and keep firing cyclones on
 the move (friendly ones don't :))) and even if you attract fire, so what? like i said, you have
 excellent staying power and your enemy is NOT firing on those A11 fornt armor of your
 rhinos for a turn. a turn is all you need to make it to his lines with those 10 strong tac squads.
 be vary though that this cannot be taken to extremes - walking gainst tau or eldar or shooty IG
 is never a good idea. again - termies will perform within army, mission and enemy contexts.
 not in a standard issue.

 now imagine how much better they can be with a transport or being teleported? on a technical
 note, if plan to teleport it's usually quite useful to use a vet scout sarge with a homer to get
 them in.

 what about HtH? you say that your enemy will throw power weapon wielding troops at your
 termies - why do you let him? terminators are your elites that need to protected. the fact that a
 unit is in potential danger is no reason to not use it. this is when tactics come to the fore - who
 will outsmart the opponent? who will pull off the best tactics. set up fire traps. play delayed
 tactics. or use the termies themselves. if have 6 of them (standard issue wepons-wise and )
 against 10 howling banshees (classic :))). you fire 8 str4 ap5 bullets and 6 str6 ap4 bullets. and
 then YOU assault (+1A) if you were close enough you didn't shoot yourself out of charge. the
 exarch will reap you, but other banshees hit on 4+ and wound on 5+ and you SAVE on 5+.
 IMHO you loose 2 models tops. so four power fist swings in return. guess who's the last man
 standing? but the above examnple is extreme. you have an entire army at your disposal to
 prepare a tactical situation for your termies to exploit. this is the key to use them - create
 tactical situations where they will be the most effective - we come to the basics here - PLAY
 TO YOUR STRENGTHS.

 i think i already answered what good storm bolters and standard issue terminators are against
 'gaunts, didn't i :))) ?

 and now the icing on the cake. DW termies mix assault troops with heavy weapons with
 standard issue weapons. this translats into a more effective combat force that is IMHO even
 easier to put into a favorable tactical situation because of its versality.

 >> I would be more than happy to take a squad of Deathwing, give them a Heavy
 Flamer/Chainfist, Assault Cannon/power fist, 2 x lightning claw pairs, and then the Sgt. I
 would probably want to mount them in a Land Raider (ideally a Crusader) to get them into
 comabt really fast. But that's a lot of points right there. A lot. 

 a couple of observations that you may find useful:

 -if you give your termies a crusader make them 8-man strong. use your advatages (transport
 capacity) to the fullest- it'll make all the difference.

 - i'd suggest 2 assault cannons (more versatile and that mix-ranges thing :))). observe how
 your opponents deploy and move their troops. if they tend to have lines and space well forget
 about the flamer (a matter of personal taste though). oh, and definately bring them agaist
 bunkers. ever won by killing the whole bunker squad with one shot?

 and did an excellent job selecting DW and highlighting their strengths already - combining solid
 fire support with kill-fast HtH choices.

 one more general note - unless playing pure DW army i don't think LRs and DW termies mix
 well (unless you play above 2000 pts), as you select the most costly infantry and vehicles. this
 will effectively limit your point allowance significantly and you may not have enough other units
 to a) contain your enemy in other sections of the battlefield or b) create the advantageous
 tactical situation for termies. just a personal opinion here.

 >> So, those are my (probably) baseless comments on terminators - I don't use them often,
 nor do I like the lack of mobility and flexibility that characters in terminator armor must accept,
 so I don't use the armor often, either. But maybe I'm mis-understanding something, so please,
 do let me know what the key is to an effective Deathwing.

 in a nut shell:

 - treat terminators as a highly specialized force,
 - never let them on their own - support them with other units,
 - create a tactical situation for your terminators to exploit,
 - play to your strengths - it's gotta be you who controls what kind of engagements the
 terminators will end up in. a contest of tactical skill is a difficult isue but also one most
 rewarding if you win.

 and basically use them. you know, the "train hard, fight easy" thing :)))

 good hunting,

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum

 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               ASK ME WHAT U WANNA KNOW (NT) . (0 Replies). doomangel[]. 2/21/2002 5:48 (2/21/2002 5:48) 
 No Text 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               RE: on deathwing and other issues . (3 Replies). littlepurplemonkey[]. 2/21/2002 8:27 (3/4/2002
 15:28) 
 Just out of interest, I noticed that when you went through the Deathwing (And a very helpful
 article too I might add :)), however you didn't mention Thunder Hammers - Is there really any
 point in taking thunder hammers? I personally prefer lightning claws for HTH, but come across
 a lot of bloodthirsters, hive tyrants etc. where I really dont want them to be striking again next
 go? Or am I approaching this from the wrong angle (Half asleep at the moment)? What do
 you all think of using Thunder Hammers? 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                   thunder strike . (1 Replies). bodycount[]. 2/21/2002 9:09 (2/21/2002 9:31) 
 >> you didn't mention Thunder Hammers - Is there really any point in taking thunder
 hammers? I personally prefer lightning claws for HTH, but come across a lot of bloodthirsters,
 hive tyrants etc. where I really dont want them to be striking again next go? Or am I
 approaching this from the wrong angle (Half asleep at the moment)? What do you all think of
 using Thunder Hammers?

 welcome littlepurplemonkey (grand master littlepurplemonkey, how's taht sound :))) ?

 you are right i did omitt the thunder hammer, and i think that reflects in a way the frequency
 with which they appear on the battle field. now, about using them ...

 you already answered your own question in part - they are meant to engage those big, ugly
 things that frequent the battlefields of 40k universe all too often. the improved ability to
 withstand the inital attack (inv. save 4+, but remember that against 1 enemy model only - so
 it's crucial to engage enemy units of equal number of models tops) and then get precedence in
 HtH (assuming you wound and don't instant kill them :))) is good. so in this way they are
 perfect against largish brutes.

 as any power fist-like models they are quite ok versus vehicles (automatic crew shaken result
 if you hit), but with a chain fist available i wouldn't pay too much attention to that.

 the value of thunder hammers was greatly decreased when the crux terminatus rule was
 introduced, giving all termies a 5+ inv. applicable in any situation. let's try and compare the
 different typical weapons isssued to terminators:

 TH vs. lightning claws: against anything up to T5 i'd take the claws: +1 A (the only possibility
 to increase the A number for termies), S4, re-roll any failed to wound rolls. really, if combined
 wit heavy weapon and power fist in the same squad, to me it seems to be the ultimate combo.

 TH vs. power fist: one-on-one TH is better as it has an additional useful effect in combat,
 however at the expense of shooting. IMHO this trade-off is disadvantageous, so my vote is
 again against the TH.

 so, to sum things up, i'd use TH in two situations:

 1) a monster/daemon-busting squad, that would have 2 assault cannons and 4 THs. and
 against something really nasty i would even swap assault cannons with cyclones. this unit
 would deep strike (with a homer on the battlefield) to make sure they get where i want them
 to get (more or less :))). and that would be really great fluff wise: a unit of scouts encounters a
 monsterous creature and calls in the termies, sheesh ! :)))

 2) a single TH or two in a mixed squad; if i assault an enemy unit with invisible power
 weapons and the like, or i'm in Hth with a dread or monsterous creature, i could position and
 use them to take the hits, as they have a better inv. save (4+).

 so much from me, what do the others think?

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum

 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                       RE: thunder strike . (0 Replies). aurion[]. 2/21/2002 9:31 (2/21/2002 9:31) 
 >> >> you didn't mention Thunder Hammers - Is there really any point in taking thunder
 hammers? I personally prefer lightning claws for HTH, but come across a lot of bloodthirsters,
 hive tyrants etc. where I really dont want them to be striking again next go? Or am I
 approaching this from the wrong angle (Half asleep at the moment)? What do you all think of
 using Thunder Hammers?
 >> 

 much snippage of good pointage...

 >> so much from me, what do the others think?
 >> 

 My typical Deathwing squad consists of 2 thunder hammers, 2 lightning claws, cyclone,
 assault cannon, and sarge. 7 men gives me enough room to have my GM w/ Sword of Secrets
 join them and still fit into a LR Crusader. My DW are primarily focused on bringing down or
 containing big threats on the table (such as Greater Daemons, Juggernaughts [very popular
 around here], Carnifexi, etc.). The Land Raider keeps them alive and allows me to rapidly
 deploy them to any area on the table. I LOVE the thunderhammers as all I need is one wound
 on those monstrosities and they get stunned. That alone makes them worthy in my book.

 Aurion Shidhe 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                   RE: RE: on deathwing and other issues . (0 Replies). blackbone[]. 3/4/2002 15:28 (3/4/2002
 15:28) 
 I basically only use thunder hammer/storm shield for fluff value and the mere chance to make a
 cool bunker/vehicle/daemon attack.
 The thunder hammer resides in my only LR DW group (all DW army).
 2x claws, the hammer, a heavy flamer and a sgt in a regular LR. They focus on waiting for the
 right victim, then making their 20" assualt move, preceded by a quick blast from the flamer.
 They usually destroy their points worth, then consolidate or trudge into the next enemy unit
 while the LR provides cover for my footslogging or deep striking command squad.

 Blackbone

 >> Just out of interest, I noticed that when you went through the Deathwing (And a very
 helpful article too I might add :)), however you didn't mention Thunder Hammers - Is there
 really any point in taking thunder hammers? I personally prefer lightning claws for HTH, but
 come across a lot of bloodthirsters, hive tyrants etc. where I really dont want them to be
 striking again next go? Or am I approaching this from the wrong angle (Half asleep at the
 moment)? What do you all think of using Thunder Hammers? 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               RE: on deathwing and other issues . (3 Replies). danimalicious[]. 2/21/2002 21:02 (2/22/2002
 8:25) 
 Thank you for the words and wisdom re: The Deathwing. I don't much consider them, since
 they are so high in points (and yes, that's what I meant when I talked about how slow they
 are) and seem to be able to cause much damage. My general rule of thumb is make sure I'm
 rolling as many dice as possible, relatively speaking, so one squad of Deathwing does not
 translate into a whole lot of dice. 

 A question, though, that is outstanding, is what about putting characters in Terminator armor?
 It's mighty cheap for DA characters, but again, how worthwhile? I would not want to see a
 Master or GM or chaplain in terminator armor, as it seems to limit their awesome HTH
 abilities. I know that Term armor does afford great protection, but certainly at a cost. I would
 consider a Librarian in Terminator armor, since his powers don't neccesarily rely on close
 proximity to the enemy (though his force sword certainly does). And if I had him against
 someone that needed a force sword to be dealt with, then I'd be glad to put in term armor for
 the protection.

 But what are other people's thoughts of usign term armor on DA charcters, considering what
 sort of a deal it is. 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                   tactical dreadnought armor for ICs . (2 Replies). bodycount[]. 2/22/2002 4:17 (2/22/2002 8:25) 
 >> A question, though, that is outstanding, is what about putting characters in Terminator
 armor? It's mighty cheap for DA characters, but again, how worthwhile? I would not want to
 see a Master or GM or chaplain in terminator armor, as it seems to limit their awesome HTH
 abilities. I know that Term armor does afford great protection, but certainly at a cost. I would
 consider a Librarian in Terminator armor, since his powers don't neccesarily rely on close
 proximity to the enemy (though his force sword certainly does). And if I had him against
 someone that needed a force sword to be dealt with, then I'd be glad to put in term armor for
 the protection.

 an excellent question that is. let's try and weigh the pros and cons and let's start with the good
 things:

 - a good measure of protection, offering a 2+ armor save and a 5+ inv. save,
 - very cheap at 10 pts. now,
 - character can deep strike (without the whole army in drop pods),
 - can join a DW squad (no longer acting as cmd though :( and addd some punch to it.

 * i could add move&fire hvy. weapons, but since your character can't get it it's not an
 advantage *

 and now for the dark side:

 - you can't pursue - not always a disadvantage, agreed, but if joined by a cmd squad that you
 want to chase the enemy, your character would be left out,
 - limited access to weapon and wargear (to a smaller extent) choices. please note that you
 can't take pistols, so unless taking a pair of lightning claws you effectively lose one attack,
 - cannot ride in rhinos and 'backs (which also limits the ability to have a cmd squad AND
 mobility).

 as you could read in one of the first posts here, IMHO a character with 4 attacks NEEDS to
 make it into combat. this said i always give them iron halo (cannot take it with terminator
 armor) and usually mount them (and their command squad) in a transport. therefore my
 characters rarely see the actical dreadnought armor.

 so what's it good for? it's useful when you need a cheap character. or if you plan to deep
 strike some units and need support. or if you play a defensive mission and need an additional
 HQ that would be able to support your line whenever and wherever it's needed. and of course
 you can have your character join a DW squad and cause even more havoc :)

 check out the battle report in WD 253. Pete haines used a SM commander in terminator
 armor in a defensive mission against the 'nids.

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                       RE: tactical dreadnought armor for ICs . (1 Replies). littlepurplemonkey[]. 2/22/2002
 7:56 (2/22/2002 8:25) 
 >> - can join a DW squad (no longer acting as cmd though :( and addd some punch to it.

 Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but why can't an IC without Termie armour join a DW squad - I
 was under the impression that he could? Thanks in advance for clarification on this. 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                           oh well, my bad : ))) . (0 Replies). bodycount[]. 2/22/2002 8:25 (2/22/2002 8:25) 
 >> Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but why can't an IC without Termie armour join a DW squad -
 I was under the impression that he could? Thanks in advance for clarification on this.

 nothing is forgiven, nothing is forgotten : )))

 yes, you are absolutely right. they can. so disregard that last point from advantages section
 (one less reason to field them ;).
 my bad, i messed the rules up on that one. thank you for pointing it out.

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum
 
 

 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       c'mon, we need your ideas (that and a bump : ))) (NT) . (0 Replies). bodycount[]. 2/21/2002 11:43
 (2/21/2002 11:43) 
 No Text 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       DA standards... . (2 Replies). aurion[]. 2/21/2002 11:44 (2/25/2002 11:27) 
 Do any of you use the standards in your command squads?

 I haven't even owned a standard bearer since I started playing the DA (about 2 years now),
 mostly because I rarely take a command squad. However, I recently purchased the standard
 bearer and included him in my army. 

 All I can say is...WOW!

 When my opponent, a Tyranid player, tried to charge me last week I activated the Standard
 of Devestation and hit his hormagaunts with a eight bolters and two flamers. Needless to say
 the hormagaunts vaporized in the face of that.

 Just wondering if anyone else had similar experience with the Standards.

 Aurion Shidhe 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           RE: DA standards... . (1 Replies). xvr[]. 2/25/2002 10:50 (2/25/2002 11:27) 
 I use the standards too... 
 But mainly I use the Standard which lets you re-roll the to hit roll. I usually put it into an
 Deathwing Command squad (only in DW armies of course). Together with a Master of the
 Deathwing with sword of secrets and 4-7 Termies with lightning claws. Thats really fun.
 Mount them in Crusader and charge. First you get the re-roll for the to hit and after that the
 clwas get a re-roll for the to wound roll as well...

 xvr 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               the righteous retribution ... . (0 Replies). bodycount[]. 2/25/2002 11:27 (2/25/2002 11:27) 
 >> I usually put it into an Deathwing Command squad (only in DW armies of course).
 Together with a Master of the Deathwing with sword of secrets and 4-7 Termies with lightning
 claws. Thats really fun. Mount them in Crusader and charge. First you get the re-roll for the to
 hit and after that the clwas get a re-roll for the to wound roll as well...

 welcome xvr. i must admit i really like your idea of ... well fun :))) 

 i think i could use that too (and so could my opponents ;). if only it didn't cost that much
 *sigh*. so basically it looks that every time people take up standards it's either devastation or
 retribution. fortitude, anyone?

 re-rolling, limp bizkit style !!!

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       My thoughts on the RavenWing . (2 Replies). erdagon[]. 2/21/2002 15:02 (2/22/2002 10:07) 
 Well , I noticed people inhere talked about normal DA marines and our Elite attack force , the
 Deathwing . Now I'm gonna focus on the Ravenwing with what I've experienced so far with
 them . Although I'm not a Ravenwing player myself , I use Ravenwing squad(ron)s when ever
 I can and the point options allow it . My first advice is , if you are able (points wise) always go
 for full squads and squadrons . That extra twinlinked bolter could indeed save your hide from
 an assault . As for Landspeeders , well , I suggest you go for Tornado's since they can be
 fielded in squadrons and so deal out more damage (again , if points allow) . If you include
 atleast two Ravenwing squad(ron)s , make sure you use them BOTH on the same squad to
 maximise their damage potential (attack bikes and landspeeders firing on one squad can
 actually whipe it out) . I can't put any advice on the HB upgrade to MultiMelta on speeders
 since I haven't been able to test that out (but I will , soon) . Anyway , Ravenwing squads are
 best used together , the only exception perhaps is the Attack bike squad . When equipped
 with MultiMelta's , you should use them to hunt down enemy armour and use the other RW
 squads to make sure the Attack bikes don't get attacked (perhaps giving them more cover fire
 with your tac and dev squads or any other heavy firing troopkiller available) . Well , that's it
 for my point of view on the RW . Anybody who has other suggestions about them (especially
 RW players) put your thoughts here . :)
 

 Erdagon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander
 HBK 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           we need more ideas on RW . (1 Replies). bodycount[]. 2/22/2002 3:48 (2/22/2002 10:07) 
 >> My first advice is , if you are able (points wise) always go for full squads and squadrons .
 That extra twinlinked bolter could indeed save your hide from an assault . As for
 Landspeeders , well , I suggest you go for Tornado's since they can be fielded in squadrons
 and so deal out more damage (again , if points allow) .

 i agree that concentarated fire power is better but would like to ask to a question here:

 - is it really worth to field speeders (as part of regular army, not all-RW) in full squadrons? i
 would worry about hits carrying over. any high ROF weapon with S 5+ would have a decent
 chance of hittting more than one speeder?

 thanks Erdagon Faldan for your ideas on ravenwing units. we need more ideas on how to use
 them. anyone else?

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               like all things , it depends on your opponent . . (0 Replies). erdagon[]. 2/22/2002 10:07 (2/22/2002
 10:07) 
 >> - is it really worth to field speeders (as part of regular army, not all-RW) in full squadrons?
 i would worry about hits carrying over. any high ROF weapon with S 5+ would have a decent
 chance of hittting more than one speeder?

 As it is with all choices you make , it all depends on your opponents army . Against swarming
 armies like Nids or orks I think full speeder squadrons are very usefull to cripple or even
 anihilate the whole unit you fire upon . Then again , if you're facing an IG AC then I don't think
 it's usefull . Although , to beat that kind of style , three Multimelta armed speeders could do
 quite some damage . Many might perhaps disregard the speeder as not point effectively
 enough to be considered taken , i think with the rules revision for DA they're worth giving a
 thought since they can have multiple tasks themselves now too (a normal speeder with just the
 HB for supporting fire against infantry , with MM only as fast Tank hunters , with HB and AC
 As infantry squad destroyers or dual purpose with MM and AC) . As for your remark
 concerning their vulnerabilty against high rate s5 weaponry , you're right , but then again ,
 when they move at full speed they only get glancing hits and you still have a 6+ inv save .
 That's not much , but it's still better than nothing at all . Plus , like many other units (for
 instance DW) they can draw away alot of serious fire from other units . I think that despite
 their cost , they're almost as versatile as a Tac squad , only a little more pricey (pointswise)
 and a little more vulnerable , but not the less , they can deal out a serious punch , especially
 when you combine their firepower with other (RW)squads . Good hunting .
 

 Erdagon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander
 Heretic's Butt Kicker 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       OH MY GOD!! Sydney!!.....did you hear that?!?!?! it went BUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (NT) . (0 Replies).
 Broadsider[]. 2/21/2002 15:40 (2/21/2002 15:40) 
 No Text 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       Just another bump. (NT) . (0 Replies). littlepurplemonkey[]. 2/21/2002 19:00 (2/21/2002 19:00) 
 No Text 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       OK, Tactics... tactics... hmmm... tactics? (long) . (10 Replies). Drazden[]. 2/21/2002 20:19 (3/5/2002 0:42)
 Ok, here's a standard 1500 list for me

 1 Grand Master w/ plasma pistol, artificer armor, sword of secrets
 OR
 Librarian, force weapon, bolt pistol, bionics, artificer armor or a psychic hood
 (This gives you some choice--against simply well-armored troops, like SM or CSM, I usually
 take the GM, but, against, say, Eldar, where a psychic hood is needed, or against horde
 armies with multi-wound leaders *aherm Hive Tyrant* out comes my librarian.)

 These 2 are basically useless without a support squad, so a small command squad, 6 men,
 meltagun, vet sergeant w/ power weapon, and a transport usually follow

 Chaplain, plasma pistol, artificer armor, and a jump pack
 (Mobile death. what more can be said?)

 Dreadnought, twinlinked autocannon, power fist
 (the autocannon is new, but it basically just improves on the old light-vehicle-busting and
 troop-killing machine that is a dread)

 2 Tactical Squads, loaded to the brim, flamer, plasma gun, and plasma cannons or lascannons,
 depending on the foe

 Squad of 4 sniper scouts and a sergeant (of course)

 Big Assault Squad, 2 plasma pistols, vet. sergeant w/melta bomb, power weapon (just giving
 one model melta bombs is pretty tricky, but it works. And these guys provide nice cannon
 fodder until I can get my chaplain, who usually accompanies them, into HtH.)

 Devastators, 2 heavy bolters, 2 missile launchers
 (ive said it before and I'll say it again--this is the best possible combination a devastator squad
 can have against orks etc.)

 Predator Destructor w/ the lascannons

 And a Whirlwind

 Ok, now for the tactics. This may seem like a fairly standard list, and it is, but it still works.
 Very well. But your main objective is for your command squad, with character, and your
 chaplain to get stuck in, supported by your slower-dread, and for the rest of your army to just
 kind of sit back and fire at the other force, counter-charging as needed.

 Basically what you want to do, is identify two things about your enemy's army that really can
 cause you grief, usually his HQ and something that varies from race to race, and head straight
 for them with your characters. Combat specialists do not expect this usually, and wonder why
 you're running your expensively armored troopers into his choppas, so, if you play your cards
 right, he'll not only not figure out what you can do to his troopers until it's too late, you'll have
 been playing head games, and maybe the other player'll make a mistake. Hopefully. But
 anyway, as long as you're HQs assault the enemy, not the other way around, you're ok. well,
 with orks. with everyone else, you're fine anyway, i suppose. Just make sure you have initiatve
 on their main points of pride, such as warbosses, farseers, hive tyrants, etc. Then you lay into
 them.

 That's it. Your whirlwind fires at the troops, hopefully taking out lots, your tank fires at armor,
 your devastators fire at... whatever they want. Just remember to keep your tactical marines in
 between your heavy support and his front line, while your Hqs halt his advance (hopefully) and
 you'll be fine.

 Grand Master Drazden 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           artificer armor and psychic hood - do they really work that well ? . (4 Replies). bodycount[].
 2/22/2002 5:22 (3/5/2002 0:42) 
 >> 1 Grand Master w/ plasma pistol, artificer armor, sword of secrets
 >> Librarian, force weapon, bolt pistol, bionics, artificer armor or a psychic hood
 >> Chaplain, plasma pistol, artificer armor, and a jump pack
 >> (Mobile death. what more can be said?)

 ok. it's another issue that i've been trying to come to grips with. is it really worth it to get the
 artificer armor for my character?

 most of the time (and alwasy under 1700 pts) i play with one IC only. and having a choice
 between an iron halo (25 pts) and artificer armor (20 pts) i always settle for the first. let's have
 a look at what we gain:

 4+ inv. save vs. increasing my 3+ armor save by 1

 IMHO a no-brainer. i take the halo. and since i don't want to spend too much points on a
 single character combining the two is out of question for me. on the other hand it seems like
 "aa" has actually worked for drazden.

 and a similar rant about the psychic hood. against eldar you need to beat farseer's rolls by two
 and warlock's by 1. so i'm not a great fan of the hood either. but i figure it may way more be
 useful versus chaos sorcerers.

 c'mon share your opinions !

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum
 

 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               the other option... . (3 Replies). aurion[]. 2/22/2002 8:43 (3/5/2002 0:42) 
 >> ok. it's another issue that i've been trying to come to grips with. is it really worth it to get
 the artificer armor for my character?
 >> 
 >> 4+ inv. save vs. increasing my 3+ armor save by 1
 >> 
 >> IMHO a no-brainer. i take the halo. and since i don't want to spend too much points on a
 single character combining the two is out of question for me. on the other hand it seems like
 "aa" has actually worked for drazden.
 >> 

 Or for 10 points you can get terminator armor for your IC and get the 2+ save AND the inv
 save. The inv save IS a 5+ and not a 4+ but that's okay.

 Then you can put the Iron Halo on your Assault Squad Vet Sgt or get an Emperor's
 Champion if you allow special characters.

 Aurion Shidhe 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                   that's an idea ... . (1 Replies). bodycount[]. 2/22/2002 10:12 (2/22/2002 10:45) 
 >> >> ok. it's another issue that i've been trying to come to grips with. is it really worth it to
 get the artificer armor for my character?

 >> Or for 10 points you can get terminator armor for your IC and get the 2+ save AND the
 inv save. The inv save IS a 5+ and not a 4+ but that's okay.
 >> Then you can put the Iron Halo on your Assault Squad Vet Sgt or get an Emperor's
 Champion if you allow special characters.

 definately - that's what we considered in the terminator armor for ICs reply. thanks for
 highlighting that.

 but personally, i'm a little afraid to pile so many points/valuable wargear on 1-wound
 characters (i would probably settle with a storm shield for my vet sarge). and since i usually
 field only one hq ... :))) i still think artificer armor is too expensive to use.

 thanks for your comments,

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum
 

 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                       Artificer armour . (0 Replies). erdagon[]. 2/22/2002 10:45 (2/22/2002 10:45) 
 This is another one of those things that I usually consider depending on what you filed &
 encounter . In your case , since you use only one HQ choice you might indeed consider the
 Halo as good enough . Well , considering again what enemy you face , I think it might be
 worth it if you expect that your command choice might get under fire of those AP3 weaponry .
 I guess the less you need to rely on that 4+inv save , the better . But then again , if the best
 your opponent can throw at you are AP4 weapons then indeed (or when you face Tau), the
 AA are wasted points . They could be a good choice for protection if you field two HQ's .
 That way you could give one the Halo and give the second one AA (and perhaps also strap a
 JP on his ass and let him join the Assault Squad) .Anyway , again , it all depends on what
 opponets you come along . And in CC it's ofcourse as good as any other armour . The only
 advantage point I see in AA over TA is the fact that you still can give the char better mobility
 (by either get him a JP or bike) . Another thought just got struck in my mind . What about IC's
 on bikes ?

 Erdagon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander
 HBK 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                   nice idea!!! nt (NT) . (0 Replies). sutek[]. 3/5/2002 0:42 (3/5/2002 0:42) 
 No Text 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           *sigh* All right . (2 Replies). Drazden[]. 2/22/2002 15:56 (2/23/2002 10:44) 
 I dont understand why you guys don't seem to like AA. It's cheaper than the iron halo, and I'd
 rather have a 2+ save versus an aP3 gun as opposed to a 4+ invulnerable. Ok, as soon as
 your opponent wades into CC with power weapons tho its a moot point. My army relies on
 getting your characters stuck in so that they can get as much damage done as possible, not
 keeping them alive. All DA characters have I5, enough to strike first against just about
 everybody. With this in mind, I simply could not see an extra 5 points, at the expense of his
 2+ normal save. He's in a command squad anyway, so who cares if your opponent fires a
 lascannon into it? I just don't see why people are worrying about invulnerable saves when,
 with the SoS, a Grand Master has 7 WS5 S6 I5 attacks when charging. 

 That's plenty good to annihalate most anything that the opponenet will throw at you--and
 when it doesn't, take the librarian. That's how I beat ork and tyranid players every time. A
 librarian, going the same time as a HT, almost always WILL kill it. However, if the HT has an
 implant attack, once again, it doesn't matter.

 But I think we can all agree that an Artificer-armored, Jetpack-equipped, plasma-pistoled
 chaplain is one of the most devastating forces that we can unleash on our foes. Am I right? I'm
 right, I think.

 Oh yeah--just as an aside, in case any DA players actually DO get around to reading this, do
 you actually paint your masters in white armor? Azrael doesn't have white armor. It's just
 something I've never gotten. 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               white, as in deathwing ... . (0 Replies). bodycount[]. 2/23/2002 7:00 (2/23/2002 7:00) 
 >> I dont understand why you guys don't seem to like AA. It's cheaper than the iron halo, and
 I'd rather have a 2+ save versus an aP3 gun as opposed to a 4+ invulnerable. Ok, as soon as
 your opponent wades into CC with power weapons tho its a moot point. My army relies on
 getting your characters stuck in so that they can get as much damage done as possible, not
 keeping them alive. All DA characters have I5, enough to strike first against just about
 everybody. With this in mind, I simply could not see an extra 5 points, at the expense of his
 2+ normal save. He's in a command squad anyway, so who cares if your opponent fires a
 lascannon into it?

 therefore i rather have the iron halo - my IC won't be shot at, AP3 or worse ... and in HtH i
 akways have to face power weapons, fists and other nasties ... but like i said, this is what
 follows from my games. i'm going to give the AA another try in a bigger game with two HQs.

 I just don't see why people are worrying about invulnerable saves when, with the SoS, a
 Grand Master has 7 WS5 S6 I5 attacks when charging. 

 well if i take a master he ends up with a power fist, that's for one ;) and, unless i'm mistaken,
 grand master gets 6A max ?

 >> Oh yeah--just as an aside, in case any DA players actually DO get around to reading this,
 do you actually paint your masters in white armor? Azrael doesn't have white armor. It's just
 something I've never gotten.

 yes, i do. it really highlights the model, makes it recognizable in the field and, IMHO, just
 looks "muchos good" : ))) and fits the fluff well. but they get their left shoulder plate painted
 DA greeen with a black outline (ICs and termies too). chaplains get the same shoulder plate,
 to go with all-black armor. the apothecaries, techmarines and librarians have DA green armor
 and get their left shoulder plate painted, respectively, white, purple and blue. with a black
 outline.

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               White armour , eh ? . (0 Replies). erdagon[]. 2/23/2002 10:44 (2/23/2002 10:44) 
 >> But I think we can all agree that an Artificer-armored, Jetpack-equipped, plasma-pistoled
 chaplain is one of the most devastating forces that we can unleash on our foes. Am I right? I'm
 right, I think.

 Well , not to be a pain up the ass , but I have to disagree here , I think that that GM you
 described with a jump pack is more destructive since the SoS give him 6 S6 attacks where as
 the Chap only gets 6 S4 attacks . So the GM Will wound easier than the Chap .

 >> Oh yeah--just as an aside, in case any DA players actually DO get around to reading this,
 do you actually paint your masters in white armor? Azrael doesn't have white armor. It's just
 something I've never gotten.

 Who ever said that Az or any other SC of the DA has white armour ? The robes they wear
 are indeed white to reflect that they are DW but otherwise their armour is painted normally
 (which means dark green for Az , black of As and blue for Zeke) . So unless you're fielding
 the (Grand)Master of the Deathwing , all armours are painted Dark Green (Except of the
 Ravenwing ofcourse) with the specials excluded ofcourse (with this I mean the RW , chaps ,
 Lib's , Tech's and Apo's) . Hope this helped you . :) 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           RE: OK, Tactics... tactics... hmmm... tactics? (long) . (1 Replies). blackbone[]. 3/4/2002 16:22
 (3/5/2002 0:22) 
 I would strongly disagree with your statement that this is a standard list. Maybe a standard list
 for the beardiest player in the world
 If I would face this force in a tourney, I would be hiding my comment card from you so you
 couldn't see that I was madly scribbling insults and curses on it! I would venture to say that
 about 20% of your total points are in wargear alone. Further, you can only suit up one
 character in your army in articifer armor.

 Please don't take offense to this post, I'm just trying to expose you to the goodness of gaming.
 Make it fun for everyone and reconsider your all-powerful Blood Angels-type force!
 If even one of your uber-squads was destroyed, the rest would surely tumble down the tubes
 with it!

 Blackbone
 

 >> Ok, here's a standard 1500 list for me
 >> 
 >> 1 Grand Master w/ plasma pistol, artificer armor, sword of secrets
 >> OR
 >> Librarian, force weapon, bolt pistol, bionics, artificer armor or a psychic hood
 >> (This gives you some choice--against simply well-armored troops, like SM or CSM, I
 usually take the GM, but, against, say, Eldar, where a psychic hood is needed, or against
 horde armies with multi-wound leaders *aherm Hive Tyrant* out comes my librarian.)
 >> 
 >> These 2 are basically useless without a support squad, so a small command squad, 6 men,
 meltagun, vet sergeant w/ power weapon, and a transport usually follow
 >> 
 >> Chaplain, plasma pistol, artificer armor, and a jump pack
 >> (Mobile death. what more can be said?)
 >> 
 >> Dreadnought, twinlinked autocannon, power fist
 >> (the autocannon is new, but it basically just improves on the old light-vehicle-busting and
 troop-killing machine that is a dread)
 >> 
 >> 2 Tactical Squads, loaded to the brim, flamer, plasma gun, and plasma cannons or
 lascannons, depending on the foe
 >> 
 >> Squad of 4 sniper scouts and a sergeant (of course)
 >> 
 >> Big Assault Squad, 2 plasma pistols, vet. sergeant w/melta bomb, power weapon (just
 giving one model melta bombs is pretty tricky, but it works. And these guys provide nice
 cannon fodder until I can get my chaplain, who usually accompanies them, into HtH.)
 >> 
 >> Devastators, 2 heavy bolters, 2 missile launchers
 >> (ive said it before and I'll say it again--this is the best possible combination a devastator
 squad can have against orks etc.)
 >> 
 >> Predator Destructor w/ the lascannons
 >> 
 >> And a Whirlwind
 >> 
 >> Ok, now for the tactics. This may seem like a fairly standard list, and it is, but it still works.
 Very well. But your main objective is for your command squad, with character, and your
 chaplain to get stuck in, supported by your slower-dread, and for the rest of your army to just
 kind of sit back and fire at the other force, counter-charging as needed.
 >> 
 >> Basically what you want to do, is identify two things about your enemy's army that really
 can cause you grief, usually his HQ and something that varies from race to race, and head
 straight for them with your characters. Combat specialists do not expect this usually, and
 wonder why you're running your expensively armored troopers into his choppas, so, if you
 play your cards right, he'll not only not figure out what you can do to his troopers until it's too
 late, you'll have been playing head games, and maybe the other player'll make a mistake.
 Hopefully. But anyway, as long as you're HQs assault the enemy, not the other way around,
 you're ok. well, with orks. with everyone else, you're fine anyway, i suppose. Just make sure
 you have initiatve on their main points of pride, such as warbosses, farseers, hive tyrants, etc.
 Then you lay into them.
 >> 
 >> That's it. Your whirlwind fires at the troops, hopefully taking out lots, your tank fires at
 armor, your devastators fire at... whatever they want. Just remember to keep your tactical
 marines in between your heavy support and his front line, while your Hqs halt his advance
 (hopefully) and you'll be fine.
 >> 
 >> Grand Master Drazden 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               Come again ? . (0 Replies). erdagon[]. 3/5/2002 0:22 (3/5/2002 0:22) 
 >> If I would face this force in a tourney, I would be hiding my comment card from you so
 you couldn't see that I was madly scribbling insults and curses on it! I would venture to say
 that about 20% of your total points are in wargear alone. Further, you can only suit up one
 character in your army in articifer armor.
 

 Every body has his own taste about HQ units . But the thing that made me reply to your post
 is , where is it stated that you can only have 1 person in Artificer armour ? If you field 2 HQ
 choices then they both can wear the Arty armour , it's independable chars only .
 

 Erdagon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander
 HBK 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       Novice's Strategy . (2 Replies). boltgunfire[]. 2/21/2002 22:41 (2/22/2002 18:11) 
 I'm just a novice player. I paint and read fluff more often. But with my few games, here are
 some things I've learned.

 Beforehand, here's some things that have influenced my pickings. 1- I'm an absolutely horrible
 dice roller 2- Nids are my primary enemy. 3- I would have taken Tau if it was out when I
 started playing. That means my strategy is more of their style.

 A must is a lot of tactical squads just because they're so damn good at doing a bit of
 everything. And if you have lots of tactical squads, you have lots of bits that amount to big
 things. I give them missiles just because they're very good multi-role weapons and they come
 with the tactical spruce. I don't have to shell out more money this way too. Another heavy I
 would take though would be the H/Bolter. Lots of shots are always worth something to me.
 Lol, I once had my H/bolters go ping ping ping and have the bolters actually do the damage.

 With the tactical squads, I would give about all of them a rhino 
 w/ extra armor and pintle storms. This is because my Nid' friend has Warriors chock full of
 heavy toys that likes to point at me and the mobility is a must against a Nid' army. The pintle
 storm is so I can provide some very helpful fire support against the waves of Genestealers
 (moderate fire support if against my Chaos friend). And if I move from the Nids, I can at least
 rake them and take down some of his absolutely hated genestealers (he has virtual waves of
 them. no gaunts whatsoever) 
 This makes my army rather mobile and I like it that way. If I'm not going to be using the
 Rhinos, I can always trade them in for something better suited.
 Other than tacticals, I would always take at least 1 scout squad. Scouts are good screening
 units against close combaty units like Berzerkers. A full strength squad tends to hold up for at
 least a turn before being overwhelmed. If you use them to screen Nid' deadly cannon fodder
 (ie- Genestealers) and place them over 6" away from your midline shooty troops, ;) it's usually
 a bloodbath in waiting

 I WOULD take 2 squads of 2 landspeeders. 1 tornado squad with h/bolters and assault
 cannons. 1 reg. squad with meltas because that gives a 3rd anti-tank unit for them to worry
 about. Hive Tyrants are always annoying and he's going to field 2 of them later... I have no
 landspeeders as of now because I use my dough slowly and am gradually building my army.
 That's why I say Would.
 A Ravenwing bike squad is also definitely good. Mobile reserves that spits a lot of lead and
 mount some wonderful assault toys are very useful in multiple roles. They can probably serve
 a nice bait role, flanking and shooting. Get close and almost let the enemy assault. Then run
 away and leave the enemy in the open. Or if the bikes get clobbered, the same happens, but
 you hope the squad you took down was worth more than the bikes.
 

 For heavies, all I take are dual Annihilators. Why? They're cheaper than a Devastator squad.
 They mount a twin-link lascannon, which I like because I get to reroll my desperate shots
 against the Hive Tyrant, which always advances menacingly with its tail lashing violently in
 anticipation... Oops, back on track. Yes, in conjunction with the melta mounting Landspeeder,
 these are my 3 priniciple anti-tank heavies. Though the tactical squads could fill this roll fine
 sometimes. Gotta love those tactical squads:). True that a Devastator squad can mount more
 weapons, but I think that the Annihilator is the better bargain and is more suited to me as a
 mobile blasting force. To those who didn't here me the first time, Tau weren't out when I
 started playing.
 

 Command wise, I'm still trying to figure out what I want and I'm trying to keep the costs low.
 Going to take a master instead of a chaplain only because of fluff writing that I've been doing. 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           hey, whats that? a bump!! (NT) . (1 Replies). Thomo[]. 2/22/2002 5:07 (2/22/2002 18:11) 
 No Text 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               Huh? (NT) . (0 Replies). boltgunfire[]. 2/22/2002 18:11 (2/22/2002 18:11) 
 >> No Text 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       an army list (guess what, DW included :) . (5 Replies). bodycount[]. 2/22/2002 9:58 (3/5/2002 12:26) 
 since we have discussed several concepts here i thought it may be good to try and put them in
 an army list for us all to have a closer look and further comments. also, since brother edward
 frequents our thread, i thought we can make use of his valuable experience. therefore the army
 list below was done with a view to go against blood angels. this way we can discuss dark
 angels tasks, while brother edward (HINT, HINT :))) may help us by telling the story form the
 other side (or even propose a counter army list - how about that ;). anyways, let's roll:

 HQ:
 grand master w/iron halo & sword of secrets, leads:
 cmd squad (sarge, standard bearer, apothecary - all w/ CCW & bolt pistols, marine w/ melta
 gun)
 transport: razorback w/lascan, TL plasma guns, extra armor
 324 pts.

 ELITES:
 deathwing terminators (sarge w/power weapon & storm bolter, 1 with assault cannon & chain
 fist, 1 w/ power fist & storm bolter, 4 w/pair of lgth. claws)
 344 pts.

 TROOPS:
 4 x tac squads (each has: sarge w/bolter, 1 missile launcher, 1 plasma gun, 3 bolters)
 4 x 106 pts. = 424 pts.

 HEAVY SUPPORT:
 dev squad (sarge w/bolter, 2 plasma cannons, 2 missile launchers, marine w/ bolter)
 transport: razorback w/ TL lascans
 285 pts.

 vindicator tank w/smokers
 123 pts.

 1500 pts in total nice and clean.

 since i would expect the BA to advance i assumed a defensive concept for this army. if they
 turn out to be trigger happy i should be more than able to hold my own anyways.

 the grand master with his squad (and terminators) are the counter charge units. i'd keep the
 squad inside and the vehicle hull down, provided it can get a good firing lane this way. even if
 the command 'back will buy it, the troops inside should easily make their saves. use the lascan
 to provide aa fire. as theenemy approaches drive ahead, blaze away (love that co-axial mount
 - move six" and still fire all barrels ;) and disembark to engage the enemy.

 terminators need to be either screened by one of the tac squads or positioned so that enemy
 canot draw multiple LOS to it. they need to be protected form heavy incoming fire to be able
 to perform heir role - counter charge. move up, pre-assault fire and engage in hth.

 tac squads. and four of them - too few if you ask me ;) first off, they provide fire support and
 are supposed to screen other elements in the army. secondly, i'd try to put them into position
 where they get assaulted and if any sweeping advances are made (hopefully ;) the rest of the
 army lets loose.

 devastators's task is to provide suppresing fire on the assaulting elements. it's geared to be
 equally able to engage armor or infantry. with the 'back at their service, they should take up a
 firing position in turn one (actually they have to, in order to be effective) and then the 'back fills
 in as a tank-hunter.

 the vindicator is just - well i couldn't resist. it's biggest value would probably be adding some
 confusion and second thoughts in the opponent and blocking one corridor of assault. if it does
 get a shot off at enemy squad i'll be all smiles ;).

 the battle plan would involve three issues:

 - don't get assaulted simultaneously or across a wide front,
 - use fire support elements to channel the enemy to my counter charge units,
 - try to drag enemy squads into kill zones as they sweeping advance.

 on the first turn (or two if that's possible ;) the target priority would be transports. with my
 vehicle hull down and less need of rapid advance i think i would have the luxury to ignore
 enemy shooters for a turn.

 having stranded my enemy assault elements will be crucial. so jumpack troops become a
 threat as they will move 12" without a transport. infantry that walks across he battlefield will
 definately be a secondary target.

 i fear that i may have too few tac squads to perform both the screen and kill zone tasks. their
 missile lauchers are ideal for taking out DC 9provided there are no transports left and the DC
 are not in HtH yet :))). 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           My vision on this . . (1 Replies). erdagon[]. 2/22/2002 10:33 (2/22/2002 10:52) 
 >> HQ:
 >> grand master w/iron halo & sword of secrets, leads:
 >> cmd squad (sarge, standard bearer, apothecary - all w/ CCW & bolt pistols, marine w/
 melta gun)
 >> transport: razorback w/lascan, TL plasma guns, extra armor
 >> 324 pts.
 >> 
 >> ELITES:
 >> deathwing terminators (sarge w/power weapon & storm bolter, 1 with assault cannon &
 chain fist, 1 w/ power fist & storm bolter, 4 w/pair of lgth. claws)
 >> 344 pts.
 >> 
 >> TROOPS:
 >> 4 x tac squads (each has: sarge w/bolter, 1 missile launcher, 1 plasma gun, 3 bolters)
 >> 4 x 106 pts. = 424 pts.
 >> 
 >> HEAVY SUPPORT:
 >> dev squad (sarge w/bolter, 2 plasma cannons, 2 missile launchers, marine w/ bolter)
 >> transport: razorback w/ TL lascans
 >> 285 pts.
 >> 
 >> vindicator tank w/smokers
 >> 123 pts.
 >> 
 >> 1500 pts in total nice and clean.

 It would be indeed wise to keep the Grandmaster and the DW as a back up counterassaulting
 force . As for the BA , well I think most field them as an assault heavy army so you should
 suspect much rhino's and probably alot of Jump packs too . Anayway , if you manage to get
 the first turn I guess it would be best to use the tac squads missiles to bust the Rhino's and
 perhaps let them be joined by fire of the backs and DW AC . With the way the Dev's are
 equipped , I would use them to kill the Jump packs . If you succeed in killing the rhino's and
 they have to slug it on foot , I think then it will be usefull to concentrate Tac squad fire and
 reduce the troops from the rhino's with them . Keep your Dev's firing at the DC and other
 Assault troops to kill them off faster with their heavy weaponry . Also I think by the second
 turn you should expect some of the BA to be able to charge you . Another bad trick to pull on
 them would be to use one of the tac squad as a bait and force him to assault it only to end up
 in a firelane from anything else and in doing so effectively anihilate that unit . And if you think
 you don't have enough Tac squads , well drop the Vindi then in favour of another Tac squad .
 Again , more fire power and perhaps one that can be used as charge bait . :) If you have the
 ability to try that one out , let us know how it went . Good hunting .

 "For the Emperor and the Lion"
 Erdagon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander
 HBK 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               oh my - questions about Blood Angels? . (0 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[].
 2/22/2002 10:52 (2/22/2002 10:52) 
 Hello there!

 I'm been keeping a casual eye on this thread - and now I see some discussion of Blood
 Angels - sadly I'm walking out the door at the moment - but later today I'll have a careful
 peek at things and see if there is anything useful I can add to your discussions :-)

 Glory to the Emperor ~ Brother Edward
 http://www.dragonrealm.com/exlibrismortis 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           RE: an army list (guess what, DW included :) . (2 Replies). blackbone[]. 3/4/2002 16:37 (3/5/2002
 12:26) 
 I'll never understand the value of the Razorback! Why not just use a Rhino, take the max size
 tac leave a minimum size tac with lascannon behind to lay down fire!? Additionally, this allows
 the tac to sit still if they want and fire heavy weapsons or special wpns out of the top (2 at a
 time).
 VS. BA, I would focus on shooting. Sacrifice scouts to the initial charge, then blast them to
 pieces with everything when they inevitably sweep. Keep models at full 2" apart to maximize
 the weaknesses of the BA assault.
 Keep the distance between the units at least 6" so they cannot consolidate under any
 circumstances.
 VS. BA, deploy right out in the freakin open! Rhinos sit still in the first few turns, fire heavy
 wpsn, and wait to consider where actual manuevers should take place. Let fast attack units
 hang back and wait for the opportune moment to strike.
 RW Landspeeders are awesome in this scenario. Let the BA advance, then use your full
 movement to fly behind them. Wipe out their deploy zone defense or simply harass them so
 they begin to move and lose objectives.

 BA are really a joke, as long as you can anticipate where their assaults will take place. The
 only BA shooting I worry about is from Predators and Dreads, which will have to reveal
 themselves to heavy fire and rear fire from speeders.

 Destroy your BA opponents super-waste-o-pts command squad and watch him bawl and
 curse! Don't bother throwing a tooled-up DA squad at them, just bring tons of marines and
 scouts. The more bolters the better. Here's where to use the new Plasma Cannon rules!!

 Blackbone

 >> since we have discussed several concepts here i thought it may be good to try and put
 them in an army list for us all to have a closer look and further comments. also, since brother
 edward frequents our thread, i thought we can make use of his valuable experience. therefore
 the army list below was done with a view to go against blood angels. this way we can discuss
 dark angels tasks, while brother edward (HINT, HINT :))) may help us by telling the story
 form the other side (or even propose a counter army list - how about that ;). anyways, let's
 roll:
 >> 
 >> HQ:
 >> grand master w/iron halo & sword of secrets, leads:
 >> cmd squad (sarge, standard bearer, apothecary - all w/ CCW & bolt pistols, marine w/
 melta gun)
 >> transport: razorback w/lascan, TL plasma guns, extra armor
 >> 324 pts.
 >> 
 >> ELITES:
 >> deathwing terminators (sarge w/power weapon & storm bolter, 1 with assault cannon &
 chain fist, 1 w/ power fist & storm bolter, 4 w/pair of lgth. claws)
 >> 344 pts.
 >> 
 >> TROOPS:
 >> 4 x tac squads (each has: sarge w/bolter, 1 missile launcher, 1 plasma gun, 3 bolters)
 >> 4 x 106 pts. = 424 pts.
 >> 
 >> HEAVY SUPPORT:
 >> dev squad (sarge w/bolter, 2 plasma cannons, 2 missile launchers, marine w/ bolter)
 >> transport: razorback w/ TL lascans
 >> 285 pts.
 >> 
 >> vindicator tank w/smokers
 >> 123 pts.
 >> 
 >> 1500 pts in total nice and clean.
 >> 
 >> since i would expect the BA to advance i assumed a defensive concept for this army. if
 they turn out to be trigger happy i should be more than able to hold my own anyways.
 >> 
 >> the grand master with his squad (and terminators) are the counter charge units. i'd keep the
 squad inside and the vehicle hull down, provided it can get a good firing lane this way. even if
 the command 'back will buy it, the troops inside should easily make their saves. use the lascan
 to provide aa fire. as theenemy approaches drive ahead, blaze away (love that co-axial mount
 - move six" and still fire all barrels ;) and disembark to engage the enemy.
 >> 
 >> terminators need to be either screened by one of the tac squads or positioned so that
 enemy canot draw multiple LOS to it. they need to be protected form heavy incoming fire to
 be able to perform heir role - counter charge. move up, pre-assault fire and engage in hth.
 >> 
 >> tac squads. and four of them - too few if you ask me ;) first off, they provide fire support
 and are supposed to screen other elements in the army. secondly, i'd try to put them into
 position where they get assaulted and if any sweeping advances are made (hopefully ;) the rest
 of the army lets loose.
 >> 
 >> devastators's task is to provide suppresing fire on the assaulting elements. it's geared to be
 equally able to engage armor or infantry. with the 'back at their service, they should take up a
 firing position in turn one (actually they have to, in order to be effective) and then the 'back fills
 in as a tank-hunter.
 >> 
 >> the vindicator is just - well i couldn't resist. it's biggest value would probably be adding
 some confusion and second thoughts in the opponent and blocking one corridor of assault. if it
 does get a shot off at enemy squad i'll be all smiles ;).
 >> 
 >> the battle plan would involve three issues:
 >> 
 >> - don't get assaulted simultaneously or across a wide front,
 >> - use fire support elements to channel the enemy to my counter charge units,
 >> - try to drag enemy squads into kill zones as they sweeping advance.
 >> 
 >> on the first turn (or two if that's possible ;) the target priority would be transports. with my
 vehicle hull down and less need of rapid advance i think i would have the luxury to ignore
 enemy shooters for a turn.
 >> 
 >> having stranded my enemy assault elements will be crucial. so jumpack troops become a
 threat as they will move 12" without a transport. infantry that walks across he battlefield will
 definately be a secondary target.
 >> 
 >> i fear that i may have too few tac squads to perform both the screen and kill zone tasks.
 their missile lauchers are ideal for taking out DC 9provided there are no transports left and the
 DC are not in HtH yet :))). 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               Ah , the Razorback . (1 Replies). erdagon[]. 3/5/2002 0:28 (3/5/2002 12:26) 
 >> I'll never understand the value of the Razorback! Why not just use a Rhino, take the max
 size tac leave a minimum size tac with lascannon behind to lay down fire!? Additionally, this
 allows the tac to sit still if they want and fire heavy weapsons or special wpns out of the top (2
 at a time).
 

 The big advantage of the Razorback over the Rhino is the fact that it can fire heavy weapons
 and can be configured to certain roles . For tank busting , give it a twinlinked lasgun turret , for
 infantry killing use the Twinlinked heavy bolter Turret and for anti marines , use the
 lascannon/plasmagun turret . The rhino is good for fast transport , but that's it , the Razorback
 is able to lend it's fire power to the squad it transports .
 

 Erdagon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander
 HBK 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                   RE: Ah , the Razorback . (0 Replies). blackbone[]. 3/5/2002 12:26 (3/5/2002 12:26) 
 What can the Razorback fire when it moves 12"? If it can't fire its primary weapon, then its
 useless to me.

 Blackbone

 >> >> I'll never understand the value of the Razorback! Why not just use a Rhino, take the
 max size tac leave a minimum size tac with lascannon behind to lay down fire!? Additionally,
 this allows the tac to sit still if they want and fire heavy weapsons or special wpns out of the
 top (2 at a time).
 >> 
 >> 
 >> The big advantage of the Razorback over the Rhino is the fact that it can fire heavy
 weapons and can be configured to certain roles . For tank busting , give it a twinlinked lasgun
 turret , for infantry killing use the Twinlinked heavy bolter Turret and for anti marines , use the
 lascannon/plasmagun turret . The rhino is good for fast transport , but that's it , the Razorback
 is able to lend it's fire power to the squad it transports .
 >> 
 >> 
 >> Erdagon Faldan
 >> Dark Angels commander
 >> HBK 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       Givin it "ze" boot (NT) . (0 Replies). erdagon[]. 2/22/2002 15:24 (2/22/2002 15:24) 
 No Text 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       Review this DA army please . (7 Replies). Broadsider[]. 2/22/2002 18:21 (2/24/2002 9:32) 
 Be kind...I usually play IG, Eldar, or Tau so keep that in mind

 -HQ-

 Grandmaster /w Sword of Secrets, Bionics, Iron Halo
 --Command Squad
 + Apothercary /w Narthecium
 + Techmarine /w Servo-arm and Signum
 + Standard Bearer /w Standard of Devastation
 + 1 heavy bolter 1 plasma gun
 Mounted in Razorback with Lascannon and twinlinked PG's

 Chaplain on Bike /w Blade of Reason(is it a power weapon), Bionics, artificer armour, Power
 Weapon and Bolt pistol
 -Elites-

 Deathwing Terminator Squad (fire support)
 1x Sargent
 9x Terminators
 - 2 chain fists
 - 1 cyclone and 1 assualt cannon

 Deathwing Terminator Squad (Assualt)
 1x Sargent
 4x Terminators
 -1x heavy flamer
 -1x Thunderhammer hammer and storm shield
 -2x storm bolter and power fist
 ---Land Raider /w extra armour, dozer blades, smoke lauchers

 Dreadnought Parallax
 -Missle Launcher
 -Twin-linked lascannons
 -Extra Armour and Smoke Lauchers

 -Troop-
 2x Assualt Oriented Tac Squads
 Each With:
 1x Vet sarge /w Bolt Pistol, CCW, and Terminator honors
 9x Marines
 -1 Heavy Bolter
 -1 Meltagun
 -Frag grenades
 ---Rhino /w Extra armour, amokers, and Hunter-killer missle, spot light, dozer blades

 2x Fire support Tac Squads
 Each with:
 1x Vet Sarge /w BP and CCW
 7x Marines
 -1 Plasma Cannon
 -6 bolters

 1 Sniper scout squad
 -1 vet sarge wtih auspex
 -1 heavy bolter
 -4 scouts with sniper rifles

 -Fast Attack-

 Bike Squadron
 -1x Sarge
 -4x Bikes
 -3 /w CCW (or two with CCW and 1 with flamer)
 -1 /w melta-gun

 Land Speeder Squadron
 -3x Speeder 1 with Assualt Cannon
 or
 Typhoon Land Speeder
 -/w Heavy Bolter

 Assualt Squad
 -1 vet sarge /w termie honours
 -9x space marines
 -2 plasma pistols
 -krak and melta bombs

 -Heavy support-

 Devastator Squad
 -1 Sarge with bolter
 -7x Devastator Marines 
 -2x missle launcher
 -1x lascannon
 -1x plasma cannon
 -3x bolters
 ---Moutned in bolter /w HK missle + Storm Bolter, and smoke, spot light

 Whirlwind
 -Extra armor, smoke launchers, spot light, dozer blades

 Land Raider in the Elite section
 

 Thats it...............phfeew that took a long time 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           a 1500pt DA tourney Army . (5 Replies). doomangel[]. 2/22/2002 20:33 (2/24/2002 9:32) 
 here is my list

 HQ

 chaplain with Jump Pack, Blades of Reason, Power Weapon, Frag Grenades, Crozius
 Arcanum, Rosarius
 131pts

 Elites

 Dred with Missile Launcher, Twin Link Lascannon, Search Light, Extra Armour, Smoke
 Launchers
 144pts

 Troops

 10 man tac squad with Veteran Sergeant: Power Weapon, Stubborn. Squad: Rhino, Flamer

 10 man tac squad with Veteran Sergeant: Power Weapon, Stubborn. Squad: Rhino, Flamer

 7 man tac squad with Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun

 7 man tac squad with Heavy Bolter

 5 man tac squad with Sniper Rifles x3, Heavy Bolter

 Fast Attack

 6 Man assault squad with Veteran Sergeant: Power Fist. Squad: 2 Plasma Pistols

 Heavy Support

 Devastator Squad with 2 Lascannons, 1 Plasma Cannon, 1 Heavy Bolter

 total Army pts: 1500

 so what do u think

 the chaplian joins the assault squad and advances with the 2 squads in the rhino while the
 other squads give covering fire
 
 
 
 
 

 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               lemme see . . (0 Replies). erdagon[]. 2/23/2002 3:33 (2/23/2002 3:33) 
 >> HQ
 >> 
 >> chaplain with Jump Pack, Blades of Reason, Power Weapon, Frag Grenades, Crozius
 Arcanum, Rosarius
 >> 131pts

 Nice .

 >> Elites
 >> 
 >> Dred with Missile Launcher, Twin Link Lascannon, Search Light, Extra Armour, Smoke
 Launchers
 >> 144pts

 I suggest you leave the search lights behind . If you do play a night time mission , those
 searchlight will attrack more heavy weaponsfire than you would like .

 >> Troops
 >> 
 >> 10 man tac squad with Veteran Sergeant: Power Weapon, Stubborn. Squad: Rhino,
 Flamer
 >> 
 >> 10 man tac squad with Veteran Sergeant: Power Weapon, Stubborn. Squad: Rhino,
 Flamer
 >> 
 >> 7 man tac squad with Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun
 >> 
 >> 7 man tac squad with Heavy Bolter
 >> 
 >> 5 man tac squad with Sniper Rifles x3, Heavy Bolter

 I think this is supposed to be a 5 man scout squad ? :)

 >> Fast Attack
 >> 
 >> 6 Man assault squad with Veteran Sergeant: Power Fist. Squad: 2 Plasma Pistols
 >> 
 >> Heavy Support
 >> 
 >> Devastator Squad with 2 Lascannons, 1 Plasma Cannon, 1 Heavy Bolter
 >> 
 >> total Army pts: 1500
 >> 
 >> so what do u think
 >> 
 >> the chaplian joins the assault squad and advances with the 2 squads in the rhino while the
 other squads give covering fire

 That's where the Chaplain should be , in the fore smashing enemies with his weapons . Looks
 nice . Let us now how it went for you . Good Hunting .
 

 Erdagon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander
 HBK 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               another rewiev ... . (3 Replies). bodycount[]. 2/23/2002 9:09 (2/24/2002 9:32) 
 >> HQ
 >> chaplain with Jump Pack, Blades of Reason, Power Weapon, Frag Grenades, Crozius
 Arcanum, Rosarius
 >> 131pts

 let me see ... crozius AND power weapon? your guy costs 117 pts. with all that gear and a
 bolt pistol instead of that power weapon typo ;)

 >> Elites
 >> Dred with Missile Launcher, Twin Link Lascannon, Search Light, Extra Armour, Smoke
 Launchers
 >> 144pts

 well, it's similar to my remarks in the previous review - smoke launchers on a oh-so-shooty
 vehicle mean that you won't shoot for a turn. IMHO no use. and you'd probably want the
 search light on something cheaper.

 >> Troops
 >> 10 man tac squad with Veteran Sergeant: Power Weapon, Stubborn. Squad: Rhino,
 Flamer
 >> 10 man tac squad with Veteran Sergeant: Power Weapon, Stubborn. Squad: Rhino,
 Flamer

 love them with two little restrictions (oh, there goes the unconditinal love thing :))) though. 1)
 get them extra armor and smokers. these babes need to make to the enemy lines, right? 2)
 what if your stubborn squad gets charged by a dread, walker or their organic counterparts?
 be careful, as you'll have no means to hurt them and cannot fall back. stubborn troops are
 very useful in HtH but need carefull support at times.

 >> 7 man tac squad with Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun
 >> 7 man tac squad with Heavy Bolter

 bread and butter DA tac squads :)

 >> 5 man tac squad with Sniper Rifles x3, Heavy Bolter

 yeah, i know, it's a typo ;) and a good unit too.

 >> Fast Attack
 >> 6 Man assault squad with Veteran Sergeant: Power Fist. Squad: 2 Plasma Pistols

 fine. when advancing, try to cover them with the rhinos.

 >> Heavy Support
 >> Devastator Squad with 2 Lascannons, 1 Plasma Cannon, 1 Heavy Bolter

 i always spend the most time planning out weapons for my devs :) no suggestions here, as i
 realize how strongly these decisions are influenced by whom you're goingto face, or in case of
 a tourney army, by what you thing you'll need and feel comfortable with the most.

 >> so what do u think

 i'm thinking about the combination of assault and supporting fire you put together. the
 supporting units have 36" range and no move&shoot capability, save for the excellent
 dreadnought. and you may need at 1 turn to take up firing positions (imagine the devs arriving
 as reserves ...). IMHO a difficult combination.

 but this force selectionreminds me a lot of the "slant line" tactics - what you may call an
 offensive variant of the refused flank. you put the assault elments on the extreme flank, then
 move&shoot units, and finally an anchor of fire support units in the center (refusing the other
 flank). advance and engage a portion of his army (extreme flank), move up support (flank),
 blst his other units (center). try to create an isolation for your assault element to exploit,
 prefereably engaging one enemy unit at a time. this depends on several conditions though. how
 many respnose/countercharge units your opponent has? how mobile is he? can he redeploy his
 shooting units whithout losing the opportunity to fire? and you could use more move&shoot
 support.

 well, just a thought. and my tactical rumblings notwithstanding i like your army a lot.

 good hunting,

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                   a tactical concept ... . (2 Replies). bodycount[]. 2/24/2002 7:56 (2/24/2002 9:32) 
 coming back to the subject of "slant line" tactics. do you think it's possible to use it effectively
 in 40k with the DA?

 before we delve deeper into it, a brief summary of its principles:

 - a variant of refused flank (center of the battlefield becomes your flank),
 - a solid anchor in the center, made up of slow or stationary troops, able to engage the enemy
 with long range weaponry,
 - assault element is concentarted on the extreme flank with a purpose of a fast advance and
 engaging a portion of the enemy line with a numerical and/or quality advantage,
 - mobile and move&shoot elements are positioned between the extreme flank and center and
 advance, being able to support both (ideally this group should also posess some HtH
 capabilities to join in with the assault element, once the enemy flank had ben broken).

 there you have it. and now an example of a 1700 pts. DA force selected to fit with the above
 tactics:

 ASSAULT ELEMENT (extreme flank):
 grand master w/power fist&bolt pistol, iron halo.
 leads: 
 cmd squad (sarge, apothecary, standard bearer (all CCW&bolt pistol), 6 bolters, all have
 frags), mounted in a rhino (extra armor, smokers).
 337 pts.

 tac squad (sarge w/CCW&bolt pistol, 1 melta gun, 8 bolters), mounted in a rhino (extra
 armor, smokers).
 218 pts.

 assault squad (sarge & 7 marines w/CCW&bolt pistol, 2 plasma pistol&CCW, all have frags
 and jump packs).
 260 pts.

 SUPPORT ELEMENT (flank):
 dreadnought w/TL lascans, dread CCW&storm bolter, extra armor.
 130 pts.

 2xRW land speeder (separate choices) w/ hvy. bolter.
 2x55 pts = 110 pts.

 ANCHOR ELEMENT (center):
 2xtac squad (sarge w/bolter, 1 missile launcher, 4 marines).
 2x100 pts = 200 pts.

 dev squad (sarge w/bolter, 2 missile launchers, 2 plasma cannons, 1 marine), mounted in a
 razorback w/TL lascans, extra armor.
 295 pts.

 2xwhirlwind support platform.
 2x75 pts = 150 pts.

 a few coments on the units first. the cmd squad is geared up for HtH as you could expected.
 being hard pressed on point total i settled for a power fist for my grand master (with his 5 to 6
 As per turn against most enemy characters it will be enough that they fail just 1 save *evil
 grin*). the fellow tac squad will rely more on their bolter&melta fire, rather than HtH. but they
 are 10 strong so should fare well in combat against an average opponent (like eldar,
 guardsmen and the like). i was thinking about another IC choice and another cmd squad but
 points would not allow it. and then the assault squad they have just enough punch to make the
 difference in HtH.

 the dread has TL lascans as i will need pint-point accuracy and aa fire power to take out
 enemy transports in turn 1. i need to isolate the extreme flank so that no enemy response units
 can redeploy there (hence the tank busting capability). and i would like some additional HtH
 punch in my support element - so i kept the dread's CCW instead of giving it a missile
 launcher (and that explains the extra armor - i want my dread to keep closing with the enemy).
 two land speeders complment teh dread as support. extremely fast and have decent
 anti-infantry fire power.

 and finally the anchor. 2 tac squads and devs ofer me a lot of fire power and a decent control
 zone (36"). tacs screen the devs. ths is needed to achieve two very important tasks: 1)prevent
 the enemy from mounting a counter assault in the opposing flank, 2)support my own assault.
 with available fire power i should be able to do just that. then there is the 'back - and its
 awsome TL lascans (at +20 pts ;). last but not least i took two whirlwinds - with their
 concentrated fire i can almost asure that their will be at least one enemy unit pinned each turn.

 having thought about it, this army would be best suited against eldar, IG or orks. since this
 amries will outnumber me, the refused flank would really work then - an army with a lot of
 models usually would be spread across the battlefield more evenly. still, being able to isolate
 the extreme flank would be the crucial elemnt of the battle. i will need time to get there and
 engage (2 y\turns in total perhaps?) a part of the enemy force, so i can overwhelm it and face
 whatever comes as next.

 this means i have to put target priority on two kinds of units: transports with HtH squads and
 shooters that pose a direct threat to my assault element's mobility. 2 TL lascans, 2 missile
 lauchers, 2 hvy bolters should be enough. the devs have two missile lauchers more, but these
 can't be used for selective fire, so i'd probably direct them elsewhere. and then there are two
 whirlwinds. against the armies i mentioned they usually prove invaluable, due to their mass-kill
 and pining capabilities. especially the latter would come to the fore as the need to isolate a
 part of the battlefield becomes crucial.

 what is your opinion - would this tactics work? can it be used against other armies? let me
 hear your ideas.

 bodycount,
 si vis pacem para belum

 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                       Some small suggestions . . (0 Replies). erdagon[]. 2/24/2002 8:40 (2/24/2002 8:40) 
 >> ASSAULT ELEMENT (extreme flank):
 >> grand master w/power fist&bolt pistol, iron halo.

 Since he's gonna be in the tick of it , why not give him either a SoS or normal powerweapon ?
 That way you're sure that he strikes first .

 >> leads: 
 >> cmd squad (sarge, apothecary, standard bearer (all CCW&bolt pistol), 6 bolters, all have
 frags), mounted in a rhino (extra armor, smokers).
 >> 337 pts.

 I see that you included a Techmarine . Why not giving him a Servo arm to gain a futher
 powerfist attack ? And incase the rhino should get fried then you still would have a small
 chance of fixing it .

 >> tac squad (sarge w/CCW&bolt pistol, 1 melta gun, 8 bolters), mounted in a rhino (extra
 armor, smokers).
 >> 218 pts.

 Nice . Well , don't know , since you're assaulting with these , perhaps the Flamer should work
 well here . 

 >> assault squad (sarge & 7 marines w/CCW&bolt pistol, 2 plasma pistol&CCW, all have
 frags and jump packs).
 >> 260 pts.

 good choice there .

 >> SUPPORT ELEMENT (flank):
 >> dreadnought w/TL lascans, dread CCW&storm bolter, extra armor.
 >> 130 pts.
 >> 
 >> 2xRW land speeder (separate choices) w/ hvy. bolter.
 >> 2x55 pts = 110 pts.

 Looks good . if you could spare the points , I would recommend to upgrade them both to
 Tornado's , but only if you can miss the points . Always good to have two fast infantry killers .

 >> ANCHOR ELEMENT (center):
 >> 2xtac squad (sarge w/bolter, 1 missile launcher, 4 marines).
 >> 2x100 pts = 200 pts.

 Small and cheap , but if they get charged ..... But then on the other hand , for tying up (and
 then sucker them into a fire trap) i bet they would do good enough (and if you have achieved
 destroying all armoured threats they can be used as anti-infantry too) . Versatile though .

 >> dev squad (sarge w/bolter, 2 missile launchers, 2 plasma cannons, 1 marine), mounted in a
 razorback w/TL lascans, extra armor.
 >> 295 pts.

 Well , I guess that those could indeed serve as armour killers . Yet , when facing A14 tanks , I
 hope for you you'll able to get a side shot at them otherwise I'm afraid that they could get
 charged (even tank shocked) soon .

 >> 2xwhirlwind support platform.
 >> 2x75 pts = 150 pts.

 The nightmare of any infantry heavy army . Their destructive capabilities combined with the
 ability to pin will make many an opponent think twice .

 Well ,I guess your tactics could work well against those armies you described . The only thing
 that could give you some headaches would be Armour14 tanks , well , I hope that the 'back
 will be able to take care of those . Anyway , as always , my suggestions are just my thoughts .
 Up to you to decide if they're good enough . :) Good Hunting .

 Erdagon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander
 HBK 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                       RE: a tactical concept ... . (0 Replies). littlepurplemonkey[]. 2/24/2002 9:32 (2/24/2002 9:32)
 I'm no expert, but I think that slant line tactics can work pretty well for DA versus opponenets
 fielding large numbers -In 1500 pts I have found that a slight variant on these tactics has
 allowed me to pull off some nice victories against a tyranid friend of mine who always fields
 huge numbers. Something mobile on the extreme flank such as bikes (led by a character
 maybe) and some nice solid tac squads with lots of shooty power, termies or whatever in the
 centre does nicely and some scouts used properly get to play holdup with his big termagant
 squad. Half his army usually spends the first half of the game floundering around doing a not a
 lot because they cant reach me from the other corner of the battlefield :) btw I like your army
 list - I can play the game well enough (well I may be mistaken) but seem to have some strange
 inability to make a nice happy army list (see my list below to see what I mean).
 Happy gaming.
 GM Little Purple Monkey 
 Reply  
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           a review ... . (0 Replies). bodycount[]. 2/23/2002 8:11 (2/23/2002 8:11) 
 before the review - just a thought. army lists usually refelect the personal tastes of the player,
 so i think it's always useful to include a bit of tactics you plan to use with your army, outlining
 the purpose of each unit. IMHO it makes for a much more interesting exchange of opinions
 for both, the reviewer and "reviewee" :). and what point total is it - seeing the list it seems as a
 LOT ;)
 and now on with the rewiev ...

 >> -HQ-
 >> Grandmaster /w Sword of Secrets, Bionics, Iron Halo
 >> --Command Squad
 >> + Apothercary /w Narthecium
 >> + Techmarine /w Servo-arm and Signum
 >> + Standard Bearer /w Standard of Devastation
 >> + 1 heavy bolter 1 plasma gun
 >> Mounted in Razorback with Lascannon and twinlinked PG's

 i think that the signum isn't that useful with this squad - unless you plan to re-roll the plasma
 gun - then it makes all the sense. but still - it's another marine points wise. are you going to use
 that cmd squad in "come-and-get-me" fashion (shooty within 24", SoD, HtH punch) - if so
 remember that you're going to play versus tau and IG - they will be more than happy to
 engage in a firefight with you. IMHO a controversial tactics versus these opponents.

 >> Chaplain on Bike /w Blade of Reason(is it a power weapon), Bionics, artificer armour,
 Power Weapon and Bolt pistol

 ok. BoR - oh, man - if your chaplain survives, then againt these armmies you can get yourself
 a lot of points. crafty ;)))

 >> -Elites-
 >> Deathwing Terminator Squad (fire support)
 >> 1x Sargent
 >> 9x Terminators
 >> - 2 chain fists
 >> - 1 cyclone and 1 assualt cannon

 well, i'd say you're mixing ranges (we discussed that quite lot in this thread). but this time you'd
 want to have 24" range - you have 8 storm bolter after all. so, i'd take another assault cannon
 insted of the cyclone. keep them screened or -perhaps the best idea for tau and IG - deep
 strike them if you can.

 >> Deathwing Terminator Squad (Assualt)
 >> 1x Sargent
 >> 4x Terminators
 >> -1x heavy flamer
 >> -1x Thunderhammer hammer and storm shield
 >> -2x storm bolter and power fist
 >> ---Land Raider /w extra armour, dozer blades, smoke lauchers

 this is a general concept of mine - if any vehicle can be used for effective fire support/tank
 busting - don't give it the smokers. you want to shoot as much as you can with it, right? and
 definately get lightning claws. aganst the armies you mentioned they are the ultimate killer.
 keep one power fist (on the heavy weapon perhaps) and get them the claws.

 >> Dreadnought Parallax
 >> -Missle Launcher
 >> -Twin-linked lascannons
 >> -Extra Armour and Smoke Lauchers

 same thing about the smokers.

 >> -Troop-
 >> 2x Assualt Oriented Tac Squads
 >> Each With:
 >> 1x Vet sarge /w Bolt Pistol, CCW, and Terminator honors
 >> 9x Marines
 >> -1 Heavy Bolter
 >> -1 Meltagun
 >> -Frag grenades
 >> ---Rhino /w Extra armour, amokers, and Hunter-killer missle, spot light, dozer blades

 just to clarify - the vet sarge already has the terminator honorus. don't know about the HK
 missile (and therefore about the spotlight - and if you plan to usethe rhino as a forward
 observer, remember that then enemy will have an excellent chance to shoot it - not exactly a
 good idea ;)

 >> 2x Fire support Tac Squads
 >> Each with:
 >> 1x Vet Sarge /w BP and CCW
 >> 7x Marines
 >> -1 Plasma Cannon
 >> -6 bolters

 fine. personally, i'd take a missile laucher and be protected by its 48" range but this will really
 depend on the table you'll play on.

 >> 1 Sniper scout squad
 >> -1 vet sarge wtih auspex
 >> -1 heavy bolter
 >> -4 scouts with sniper rifles

 very good choice.

 >> -Fast Attack- 
 >> Bike Squadron
 >> -1x Sarge
 >> -4x Bikes
 >> -3 /w CCW (or two with CCW and 1 with flamer)
 >> -1 /w melta-gun

 oh, i'm no good with bikes so don't ask me ;)))

 >> Land Speeder Squadron
 >> -3x Speeder 1 with Assualt Cannon
 >> or
 >> Typhoon Land Speeder
 >> -/w Heavy Bolter

 well, i'd either take them as separate choices or drop the assault cannons and have better
 protection thanks to their 36" range. IMHO speeders are quite fragile and need all the
 protection they can get to be realy effective. also against IG tank heavy army, multi-melta
 equipped speeders (and definately separate choices then) can be most useful. only three FA
 slots available though.

 >> Assualt Squad
 >> -1 vet sarge /w termie honours
 >> -9x space marines
 >> -2 plasma pistols
 >> -krak and melta bombs

 you mean frags and melta bombs, right ? ;)

 >> -Heavy support-
 >> Devastator Squad
 >> -1 Sarge with bolter
 >> -7x Devastator Marines 
 >> -2x missle launcher
 >> -1x lascannon
 >> -1x plasma cannon
 >> -3x bolters
 >> ---Moutned in bolter /w HK missle + Storm Bolter, and smoke, spot light
 >> Whirlwind
 >> -Extra armor, smoke launchers, spot light, dozer blades
 >> Land Raider in the Elite section

 as strange as it sounds, i'd take another whirlwind and fire support tac squad instead of the
 devastators. and another idea. take an assault squad without jump packs (150 pts with no
 upgrades) and put them in the LR. number-wise they may just prove to be a better choice. but
 this will further limit your available fast attack choices. a description of some planned tactics
 would definately allow for a better reply ;)

 good hunting,

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       Givin it the ole' one two punch!!!!1 (NT) . (1 Replies). Broadsider[]. 2/22/2002 22:29 (2/22/2002 23:52) 
 No Text 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           one word . (0 Replies). doomangel[]. 2/22/2002 23:52 (2/22/2002 23:52) 
 BUMP 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       I wonder where the GW DA specialist are . . (0 Replies). erdagon[]. 2/23/2002 3:36 (2/23/2002 3:36) 
 Hmmm , now where could those GW DA specialist be ? Would love to hear some advice and
 tactics of them (and ofcourse use this message to keep this on the first page :p) Anyway , we'll
 se if we can keep this up untill they find it good enough to answer . *l* Good Hunting to all
 DA here .
 

 Erdagon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander
 HBK 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       My Army . (4 Replies). Thomo[]. 2/23/2002 5:04 (2/24/2002 3:24) 
 Heres a rough list of what i use in a 1500 pt game (not sure of exact pts due to the new rulz
 tho) Anyways here goes...

 Grand Master
 Iron Halo, Storm Bolter, Sword of Secrets

 Deathwing Termies
 Hvy Flamer, 4 Pwr Fists, 1 Pwr Sword, Storm Bolter

 Tac Squad (10)
 Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun

 Tac Squad (10)
 Missile Launcher, Flamer

 Tac Squad (10)
 Bolters

 Assault Squad (10)
 2 Plasma Pistols, Stubborn Vet Sarge

 2 Landspeeders (normal, not ravenwing)

 3 Bikes (same as speeders)
 Flamer

 Predator Annihilator
 Lascannons, extra armour

 Anyways, this is a brief overview of the tactics i use:
 The Grand Master goes with the Termies at the front/centre. The Tac Squads form a line
 beside/behind the Termies. The Assault Squad forms up behind the Tac Squads with the bikes
 on one flank and the Speeders on the other. The Pred is in the middle behind the tac squads.
 The Assault squad and bikes try an outflanking move, the speeders do the same on the othere
 side always moving 12". The rest of the Army stays still and blasts away. The Terminators will
 usually advance after the 2nd or 3rd turn and charge into CC.

 Not very good, but it sometimes works!!

 Please add suggestions and whatever. Good to see the DA Tac Thread is still on the 1st Page.
 

 The Primarch is our Saviour!
 Grand Master Thomo 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           reviewing . (2 Replies). erdagon[]. 2/23/2002 10:59 (2/24/2002 3:24) 
 >> Grand Master
 >> Iron Halo, Storm Bolter, Sword of Secrets

 Don't know , but in your case it could be better to give your GM TA instead of the Halo , it
 costs less , and only gives a 5+ inv save instead of 4+ but since he joins your DW squad it
 could be better because you could deepstrike them then . Just my thought .

 >> Deathwing Termies
 >> Hvy Flamer, 4 Pwr Fists, 1 Pwr Sword, Storm Bolter

 As stated above , with the HF I think it would be better if you could DS them so that you can
 fire your flamer at full effect from the first time . Otherwise that guy walks two-three turns
 doing nothing at all . Perhaps the AC could be better because that way you keep your CCW
 and can firing every turn whilst moving (if it doesn't blow up that is)

 >> Tac Squad (10)
 >> Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun

 Nice

 >> Tac Squad (10)
 >> Missile Launcher, Flamer

 Hmmm , I think the Flamer is a little misplaced here since flamers are very short ranged
 weaponry . Just like I stated above , you'll have one marine being idle while the others fire at
 full strenght . Better give him a PG then instead .

 >> Tac Squad (10)
 >> Bolters
 >> 
 >> Assault Squad (10)
 >> 2 Plasma Pistols, Stubborn Vet Sarge
 >> 
 >> 2 Landspeeders (normal, not ravenwing)

 Why normal Speeders ? For the same cost you get an extra 6+inv save (I know , not much
 but still better than nothing at all) .

 >> 3 Bikes (same as speeders)
 >> Flamer

 Hmm , my point on bikes is that you should atleast go for 5 man , three ain't that much and
 they can also die fast when targetted with high RoF weaponry (Heavy bolters for instance) .
 And again , the flamer will only be good when you assault in hth (not a good role for bikers ,
 unless they're White Scars) . Same as with the speeders , go for RW bikers since they get a
 6+inv save .

 >> Predator Annihilator
 >> Lascannons, extra armour
 >> 
 >> Anyways, this is a brief overview of the tactics i use:
 >> The Grand Master goes with the Termies at the front/centre. The Tac Squads form a line
 beside/behind the Termies. The Assault Squad forms up behind the Tac Squads with the bikes
 on one flank and the Speeders on the other. The Pred is in the middle behind the tac squads.
 The Assault squad and bikes try an outflanking move, the speeders do the same on the othere
 side always moving 12". The rest of the Army stays still and blasts away. The Terminators will
 usually advance after the 2nd or 3rd turn and charge into CC.
 >> 
 >> Not very good, but it sometimes works!!
 >> 
 >> Please add suggestions and whatever. Good to see the DA Tac Thread is still on the 1st
 Page. 
 >> 
 >> The Primarch is our Saviour!
 >> Grand Master Thomo
 

 Well , perhaps the advice given above might do you well . As always , this is what I think and
 it's up to you to decide if you want to follow it or not . Anyway , Good Hunting .
 

 Erdagon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander
 HBK 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               RE: reviewing . (1 Replies). Thomo[]. 2/24/2002 0:44 (2/24/2002 3:24) 
 I'll change a few things once i get more models, at the moment, what you see is what you get.
 As for the Speeders - they still cost an extra 5 pts (not much i know but...) and i really wanted
 them to fit into the army so i had to use normal ones.
 Thanks for the advice. The next thing i'm getting would have to be more plasma as well as
 more tac squads.

 Grand Master Thomo 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                   Uh , I forgot . . (0 Replies). erdagon[]. 2/24/2002 3:24 (2/24/2002 3:24) 
 >> As for the Speeders - they still cost an extra 5 pts (not much i know but...) and i really
 wanted them to fit into the army so i had to use normal ones.
 

 You're right . Normal Speeders are cheaper . Unless you want to field squadrons of
 Tornado's you might be better of using normal ones (pointswise that is ) . Well , like I said
 before , everything is up to you . I'm already glad that you've considered what I mentionned .
 :) Anyway , good hunting .
 

 Erdagon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander
 HBK

 PS : I think this post should atleast reach over 100 replies . ;) 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           RE: My Army . (0 Replies). micahmbg[]. 2/23/2002 11:04 (2/23/2002 11:04) 
 >> Heres a rough list of what i use in a 1500 pt game (not sure of exact pts due to the new
 rulz tho) Anyways here goes...
 >> 
 >> Grand Master
 >> Iron Halo, Storm Bolter, Sword of Secrets

 Nice..but a master would be better for what you want, same number of attacks, just a lower
 wound and leadership, two wounds is usually enough.

 >> Deathwing Termies
 >> Hvy Flamer, 4 Pwr Fists, 1 Pwr Sword, Storm Bolter

 Nice, adding another special/heavy weapon wouldn't be a bad idea...remember these are not
 invincable and cost more than normal termies..they wont run however so use them to hold
 objectives or crucial points in your line.

 >> Tac Squad (10)
 >> Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun

 Good...my oh my is that a lot of plasma! 

 >> Tac Squad (10)
 >> Missile Launcher, Flamer

 Hmm..missile launchers are good for long range stuff (48" range)..flamers are close up...where
 is this squad going to be? For max effectiveness i would say take out the flamer and give a
 plasma gun or put it in a rhino that way you can use the flamer sometime.

 >> Tac Squad (10)
 >> Bolters

 Good, solid...but why not add a special weapon with the points saved from GM to Master..

 >> Assault Squad (10)
 >> 2 Plasma Pistols, Stubborn Vet Sarge

 Good..a nice solid attacking element (or counter charging)

 >> 2 Landspeeders (normal, not ravenwing)
 Good, but fragile...

 >> 3 Bikes (same as speeders)
 >> Flamer
 Two flamers are twice as good as one....or , melta guns :)

 >> Predator Annihilator
 >> Lascannons, extra armour

 Drop the extra armor...looks nice but does nothing..you in all likely hood will never be
 moving, and if you get it, and can't shoot, moving won't be a big deal.

 >> Anyways, this is a brief overview of the tactics i use:
 >> The Grand Master goes with the Termies at the front/centre. The Tac Squads form a line
 beside/behind the Termies. The Assault Squad forms up behind the Tac Squads with the bikes
 on one flank and the Speeders on the other. The Pred is in the middle behind the tac squads.
 The Assault squad and bikes try an outflanking move, the speeders do the same on the othere
 side always moving 12". The rest of the Army stays still and blasts away. The Terminators will
 usually advance after the 2nd or 3rd turn and charge into CC.
 >> 
 >> Not very good, but it sometimes works!!
 >> 
 >> Please add suggestions and whatever. Good to see the DA Tac Thread is still on the 1st
 Page. 
 >> 
 >> The Primarch is our Saviour!
 >> Grand Master Thomo

 Good Luck to you!
 -Micah 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       My really bad army list. :) . (2 Replies). littlepurplemonkey[]. 2/23/2002 16:58 (2/24/2002 14:55) 
 This thread had dropped to page 4 so I thought I better bump it back up. Below is a
 theoretical 2000 pts DA army list I am working on (I currently play 1500pt battles). I realise
 that there are several flaws and would appreciate any constructive criticism and advice.
 IMHO the main two problems with my list are the lack of troops (I would like to include some
 sniper scouts and a full sized tac squad with ML and PG, perhaps in a rhino, but I don't know
 what to drop - I like DW, RW etc. too much :)) and also I think that my Crusader plus GM
 plus termies is probably a bit heavy, but I cant really see how to lighten it without completely
 dropping one element. Any suggestions would be mucho warmly welcomed, thnx.

 2000pts
 HQ
 Grand Master - SOS, AA, IH, PP, (180)
 Interrogator Chaplain - BP, Blades of Reason (96)
 command squad - 5 men, 4 CC+BP, 1 plasma gun (87)
 Rhino - smokes + armour (58)

 Elite
 Termies - sgt with crafted claws, 4 x Hammers, Heavy flamer (297)
 Dread - TL Lascannon (125)

 Troops
 Scouts - Vet sgt w/ PW,Bp stubborn + 5 BP+CC scouts (111)
 Tactical - three 5 man squads - Lascannon, plasma cannon, missile launcher (265)

 Fast
 4Bikes - plasma,melta, vet sgt w/PW (206)
 Attack bike w/ melta (70)
 Speeder w/ HB +AC (80)

 Heavy
 Crusader (255)
 Annihilator (170)

 Total (2000)

 General Tactics (If you can call them that :))
 My termies and Gm sit in the crusader and target scary things e.g. Carnifex plus tyrant guard. 
 Against elite but small armies such as chaos the comm squad in rhino may attempt to zoom
 down one flank and take out the shooty elements (Tac squads, eldar snipers etc.) of such
 armies. If for example the chaos player then diverted his attention towards it with other troops
 there would be lees demand on my main force.
 The bikes and speeder will try to utilise their mobility to the full down one flank and hopefully
 the rest of the force can hold the centre and shoot. The scouts can also attempt to cause a
 little chaos in the enemy ranks and hold up the odd thing. Against a shooty opponent I will try
 and get the crusader, rhino and scouts into the enemy ranks asap (assuming they survive). I
 get the feeling that I'm blabbering now so I'm going to stop. Once again, any advice however
 sceptical will be appreciated.
 (btw the main opponents I seem to face are Chaos, Tyranids, Eldar, and occasionally IG -I
 may be facing some fellow marines soon as well) 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           Here goes . (1 Replies). erdagon[]. 2/23/2002 20:36 (2/24/2002 14:55) 
 >> HQ
 >> Grand Master - SOS, AA, IH, PP, (180)
 >> Interrogator Chaplain - BP, Blades of Reason (96)
 >> command squad - 5 men, 4 CC+BP, 1 plasma gun (87)
 >> Rhino - smokes + armour (58) 

 Well , since you let your GM join the DW , I suggest you give him Termie Armour , for 10pts
 you get a 2+:5+inv save and so safe some points out on wargear . A good idea for the
 Chaplain would be to drop the Com squad and give him a bike and let him join the bike squad
 .

 >> Elite
 >> Termies - sgt with crafted claws, 4 x Hammers, Heavy flamer (297)
 >> Dread - TL Lascannon (125)
 >> 
 >> Troops
 >> Scouts - Vet sgt w/ PW,Bp stubborn + 5 BP+CC scouts (111)
 >> Tactical - three 5 man squads - Lascannon, plasma cannon, missile launcher (265)

 Use some of the points you earned back with my suggestion to either give them Razorback or
 extra troopers (I think atleast 6 would do)

 >> Fast
 >> 4Bikes - plasma,melta, vet sgt w/PW (206)
 >> Attack bike w/ melta (70)
 >> Speeder w/ HB +AC (80)

 If possible , try to get 5 bikes and add the Assault bike to it . As for the Speeder , try to get
 atleast two (I even recommend 3) in your squadron .

 >> Heavy
 >> Crusader (255)

 A serious choice , but since you use it as a transport for a fast attack , well , I guess it's ok ,
 but try to increase your DW's then so that you use all 8 places in it .

 >> Annihilator (170)
 >> 
 >> Total (2000)
 >> 
 >> General Tactics (If you can call them that :))
 >> My termies and Gm sit in the crusader and target scary things e.g. Carnifex plus tyrant
 guard. 
 >> Against elite but small armies such as chaos the comm squad in rhino may attempt to zoom
 down one flank and take out the shooty elements (Tac squads, eldar snipers etc.) of such
 armies. If for example the chaos player then diverted his attention towards it with other troops
 there would be lees demand on my main force.
 >> The bikes and speeder will try to utilise their mobility to the full down one flank and
 hopefully the rest of the force can hold the centre and shoot. The scouts can also attempt to
 cause a little chaos in the enemy ranks and hold up the odd thing. Against a shooty opponent I
 will try and get the crusader, rhino and scouts into the enemy ranks asap (assuming they
 survive). I get the feeling that I'm blabbering now so I'm going to stop. Once again, any advice
 however sceptical will be appreciated.
 >> (btw the main opponents I seem to face are Chaos, Tyranids, Eldar, and occasionally IG
 -I may be facing some fellow marines soon as well)
 

 Well , seeing what you're facing , I notice you miss one real needed squad here . A
 Devastator squad . Some extra heavy weapons would do well . If you decide to take them ,
 make sure you use them all four to the fullest (for instance no Anti-tank weaponry
 [lascannons] combining with Anti-infantry weaponry [heavy bolters] for the simple reason that
 you wouldn't waste shots) . You can also try to give your tac squads anti-personel heavy
 weaponry and use the Dev's for tank busting or vice versa .I'm afraid you gonna have to try
 and find out what suits you best . Anyway , good hunting .
 

 Erdagon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander
 HBK 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               Thanks . (0 Replies). littlepurplemonkey[]. 2/24/2002 14:55 (2/24/2002 14:55) 
 Thanks Erdagon. I think I may take up some of your suggestions such as putting the chaplain
 on a bike and using the saved pts to expand those tac squads. Terminator armour would
 probably also make sense for my GM, but I really love that extra attack that I can get from a
 pistol though I'll probably drop his Artificer Armour. I do like the idea of a Dev squad, but
 don't know where to get the points from and I find that the most useful heavy weapon against
 my main opponents tends to be lascannons, which makes a predator a more point-efficient
 way of zapping people, although it can be blasted by one lucky shot. Once again, thanks, and,
 oh look I've bumped this thread back to the front :).
 Happy gaming. 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       One small bump for man...... (NT) . (1 Replies). littlepurplemonkey[]. 2/24/2002 17:25 (2/25/2002 4:05) 
 No Text 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           ...... but one big BUMP for mankind (NT) . (0 Replies). erdagon[]. 2/25/2002 4:05 (2/25/2002 4:05) 
 No Text 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       Could you wise Grandmasters review this? . (7 Replies). Yaj[]. 2/25/2002 7:00 (2/25/2002 23:59) 
 Notice how I said 'wise grandmasters'

 Any way here it is!

 Here it is!

 HQ

 Interrogator Chaplain Auzikiel
 Rosarius, Crozius arcanum, bolt pistol, frag grenades
 92 

 Command squad (5) inc vet sgt 
 bolt pistols, chainswords, heavy bolter, meltagun, frag grenades, power sword, plasma pistol 
 162

 Razorback
 Twin-linked lascannons, extra armour 
 95 

 TROOPS

 2 Tactical squads (12)
 bolters, missile launchers, plasma guns
 212 

 2 Razorbacks
 Twin-linked heavy bolters, extra armour
 150 

 2 Tactical squads (12)
 bolters, heavy bolter, plasma guns 
 202 

 2 Razorbacks
 Twin-linked lascannons, extra armour
 190 

 FAST ATTACK

 Assault squad (10) 
 bolt pistols, chain swords, jump pack 
 250 

 HEAVY SUPPORT

 Annihilator
 lascannons 
 145 

 Total= 1498 

 Comments?

 Thanks

 Yaj, 3 Units Advance for the Lion!! 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           we could ; ))) . (0 Replies). bodycount[]. 2/25/2002 8:27 (2/25/2002 8:27) 

 welcome yaj! 

 still haven't read my reply on the heavy bolter cost, have you? :))) 

 and why does that army look familiar? - thanks for finally posting it here ;) since i already
 made some comments on it, let me focus on the heavy bolter thing again :)))

 >> Command squad (5) inc vet sgt 
 >> bolt pistols, chainswords, heavy bolter, meltagun, frag grenades, power sword, plasma
 pistol 
 >> 162

 first, cost break-down:

 - 5 marines = 75 pts
 - 5 x frags = 5 pts
 - vet sarge = 15 pts
 - plasma pistol & power weapon = 30 pts
 - meltagun = 10 pts
 - 2 x bolt pitol & CCW (for free character upgrades) = 4 pts

 and ...

 - heavy bolter = 5 pts !!!

 well, i DO know that in codex SM hvy bolter in cmd squad costs 15 pts but ... let's look at
 some quotes:

 form codex dark angels:

 "the standard weapons and options available to the squad type chosen are available to the
 command squad."
 p.7 under cmd squad entry

 and:

 "any other model [execept for masters of the deathwing and ravenwing]- dark angels tactical
 squad."
 p.7 cmd squad description on the sidebar.

 "tac squad - see codex space marines"
 p.8 under tac squad entry.

 and guess how much a hvy. bolter costs for a tac marine squad ?

 *all smiles*

 so acording to the best of my mathemathical ability (which is not much, for one thing ;))) the
 cost of your cmd sqd should be 144 points.

 don't you just love those wise grand masters? :)))

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           Thanks, bodycount!!, anymore? BUMP!!(NT) . (0 Replies). Yaj[]. 2/25/2002 10:05 (2/25/2002 10:05) 
 No Text!! 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           Not sure if I'm wise , but anyway ...... . (4 Replies). erdagon[]. 2/25/2002 12:30 (2/25/2002 23:59) 
 >> Notice how I said 'wise grandmasters'

 Up to kissing ass , huh ? *lol*

 >> Any way here it is!
 >> 
 >> Here it is!
 >> 
 >> HQ
 >> 
 >> Interrogator Chaplain Auzikiel
 >> Rosarius, Crozius arcanum, bolt pistol, frag grenades
 >> 92 
 >> 
 >> Command squad (5) inc vet sgt 
 >> bolt pistols, chainswords, heavy bolter, meltagun, frag grenades, power sword, plasma
 pistol 
 >> 162

 Well , seeing that you take a 'back to trasnport there I wonder if you do well on taking the HB
 . Correct me if I'm wrong but I'll guess you intend to assault with these guys , so go for a
 second special weapon instead and perhaps upgrade to special chars , since they can also
 take ccw (even powerweapons) and pistols to increase further hth capabilities and so increase
 the effect of the Chap with his retinue .

 >> Razorback
 >> Twin-linked lascannons, extra armour 
 >> 95 

 Despite the above note , I'm not that fond of Com squads , unless in big battles or DW armies
 . But this is completely your choice . You could for instance give the Chap a JP and let him
 join the assault squad . But those are my thoughts . If you do keep it , do like I suggested
 above and have them some true CC capabilities .

 >> TROOPS
 >> 
 >> 2 Tactical squads (12)
 >> bolters, missile launchers, plasma guns
 >> 212 
 >> 
 >> 2 Razorbacks
 >> Twin-linked heavy bolters, extra armour
 >> 150 
 >> 
 >> 2 Tactical squads (12)
 >> bolters, heavy bolter, plasma guns 
 >> 202 
 >> 
 >> 2 Razorbacks
 >> Twin-linked lascannons, extra armour
 >> 190 

 Those can be true devastatating and compensate the lack of a Dev squad . Nice . And if you
 set them up correctly they can be deadly against so called assault armies .

 >> FAST ATTACK
 >> 
 >> Assault squad (10) 
 >> bolt pistols, chain swords, jump pack 
 >> 250 

 Nice punch . But I think this should atleast include a Vet sarge with a powerweapon . For the
 extra kill capacity that is .

 >> HEAVY SUPPORT
 >> 
 >> Annihilator
 >> lascannons 
 >> 145 

 I guess that this one combined with the 'backs has to serve as Tank buster ? Good choice .
 Most will fear the sight of all those LC's .

 >> Total= 1498 
 >> 
 >> Comments?
 >> 
 >> Thanks
 >> 
 >> Yaj, 3 Units Advance for the Lion!!

 Again , this is my advice . Up to you to decide what you do . :) Good Hunting . 

 "Repent ! For tommorow you die!"

 Erdagon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander
 HBK

 "Glory to the Angels of Death" 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               important question on force selection ... . (3 Replies). bodycount[]. 2/25/2002 15:53 (2/25/2002
 23:59) 
 welcome battle-brothers,

 seeing several posts in this thread made me thinking about rules for selecting a DA command
 squad. please have a look at my post (two or three above this one) for reference.

 basically, i would like to know how do you select your TACTICAL squad to act as
 COMMAND squad. do you choose weapon options according to cmd squad entry in codex
 SM, or do you choose according to tac squad entry? IMHO according to the rules in codex:
 DA it should be tac entry. what's your opinion on it?

 again, please check my previous post for reference.

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                   RE: important question on force selection ... . (1 Replies). GrandmasterUlysses[].
 2/25/2002 16:15 (2/25/2002 16:32) 
 To me it looks like Tactical Squad Options, which means:
 1. Lower Leadership Values
 2. Cheaper weapons, but fewer options (i.e. you can't have two meltaguns)
 3. No Land Raider as a Transport Option

 The codex says that they use basic tactical squads, not veteran squads.

 Let me know if anyone has found a ruling different. 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                       welcome ... . (0 Replies). bodycount[]. 2/25/2002 16:32 (2/25/2002 16:32) 
 >> To me it looks like Tactical Squad Options, which means:
 >> 1. Lower Leadership Values
 >> 2. Cheaper weapons, but fewer options (i.e. you can't have two meltaguns)
 >> 3. No Land Raider as a Transport Option
 >> 
 >> The codex says that they use basic tactical squads, not veteran squads.
 >> 
 >> Let me know if anyone has found a ruling different.

 welcome grand master ulysses - what took you so long to join in? must've been a warp storm
 or something ;)

 anyways, good to see that i'm not the only one to have this opinion on cmd squads. and about
 that land rider- you can always select it as a heavy support choice and have the cmd squad
 ride in it. and i'm not sure about the prometheus, but i think you can always select it for a cmd
 squad.

 thanks for your input. what about the others?

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                   I don't know if you can count this as official but ...... . (0 Replies). erdagon[]. 2/25/2002 23:59
 (2/25/2002 23:59) 
 I have the Interactive Army Builder (full version) and according to that it's the Tactical squad
 options . So indeed , that means lower ld , less options but cheaper weaponry . The only thing
 that is just the same as com squads are the trooper upgrades (Vet Sarge , Tech , Apo and
 Bearer) .
 

 Erdagon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander

 PS : and a free boot back to page 1 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       bumps for the bump god :-) . (3 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 2/26/2002 5:26 (3/8/2002
 21:16) 
 back to the front with this one! :-) 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           and on the subject of nurgle ... . (2 Replies). bodycount[]. 2/26/2002 5:39 (3/8/2002 21:16) 
 >> back to the front with this one! :-)

 welcome back brother edward - and what is that rumor about nurgle we've been hearing? ;)

 hope you'll find time to have a look at how our thread developed since your last visit to our
 inner circle chamber ;)

 happy gaming,

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               nurgle is just first :-) . (1 Replies). BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 2/26/2002 14:07 (3/8/2002 21:16)
 >> >> back to the front with this one! :-)
 >> 
 >> welcome back brother edward - and what is that rumor about nurgle we've been hearing?
 ;)
 >> 
 >> hope you'll find time to have a look at how our thread developed since your last visit to
 our inner circle chamber ;)
 >> 
 >> happy gaming,
 >> 
 >> bodycount
 >> si vis pacem para bellum

 ++++ Thank you :-) I have experience against most armies - but now the time has come that I
 must really learn the deepest secrets about the other armies so I can throw the BEST of the
 other armies against my Blood Angels - so this year will be a year of me learning other armies
 (so that I can fight them against my Blood Angels). Nurgle ended up first when some plague
 marines caught my attention (with their freakish toughness), but we have other armies lined up
 for fun as well :-) I'll be recording what I learn the whole time - hopefully at the end we'll see
 some universal lessons coming out of it all. Unfortunately the answer I keep bumping into is
 that it almost doesn't matter what you take as long as you use it correctly (oh sure some army
 lists make things a LOT easier don't get me wrong!) but the more I look into all of this the
 more I'm seeing things much as a chef might I think - in the end I'll have a variety of specialty
 recipes that should really only be used on special occassions, and a number of other dishes
 than can be served with a variety of flavors and spices at most any occassion - and from these
 I'll be forced (due to my poor communication skills) to share likely the most sure fire recipes
 that most anyone can use under most any circumstances (yikes) :-) I hope that made some
 sense - otherwise I may well be losing my mind :-) oh well - even if I am losing my mind I'm
 sure having a lot of fun :-)

 Glory to the Emperor and Sanguinius ~ Brother Edward
 http://www.dragonrealm.com/exlibrismortis

 PS. I've been dutifully saving the information in this thread for later study, and bumping it back
 to the front when it gets too far away :-) When the thread finally comes to an end I'll post it in
 the Tactical Library on my site (since it will begin to disappear after 30days from GW's
 server). By saving the information in this way we can still serve the needs of the Dark Angel
 players in later more challenging times :-) 

 PSPS. Scott (my 40K mentor) and I have been working on Nurgle stuff today - soon I'll post
 some pics of a nurgling base that Scott sculpted - it is hysterical :-)
 

 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                   A quick couple o' things (plus another boot to the front ;) . (0 Replies). irskin[]. 3/8/2002
 21:16 (3/8/2002 21:16) 
 1) THANK YOU Brother Edward for your promise to post this thread for those of us with
 lesser technical skills! Your site rocks and I'll definately be visiting it more now that this great
 tome of DA lore will be there (and of course to check out the rest of the site too!)

 2) More on topic here: A querry that's likely been answered many a time before, can you use
 assassins in a DA army? I know we're not allowed to use choices from the heroes of the
 imperium list, but since the Codex:Assassins came out does this make a loophole or am I just
 hallucinating?

 3) A note to those who dislike or just dont use command squads (me being one of the latter at
 the moment). If you decide to take a devastator squad with multiple plama cannons,
 remember the CA rule that you can detatch techmarines and apothecaries to other squads. A
 techmarine with a signum just might save your plasma cannons enough to make the points
 expenditure worthwile...

 4) A quick question for bodycount. What does 'si vis pacem para bellum' mean? I can pick
 out most of the words but I can't turn it into a sentance.

 Greetings and respects again brother Angels!
 Irskin
 'e tenebrae lux' 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       Bodycount , do you think we're the only two DA Tactical masterminds ? ( and a free BUMP
 ofcourse) . (3 Replies). erdagon[]. 2/26/2002 11:42 (2/28/2002 7:27) 
 Well , looking back to this whole thread I see the most replies come from you or me . So I
 guess we're either the only experienced DA players or the other ones don't want to share their
 wisdom with us . And now that I have your attention , what do you think about IC's on a bike
 ? Do you think they're worth their points ?
 

 Erdagon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander
 HBK

 "Glory to the Angels of Death" 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           I know this isn't meant for me, but . (2 Replies). littlepurplemonkey[]. 2/26/2002 12:32 (2/28/2002
 7:27) 
 >>what do you think about IC's on a bike ? Do you think they're worth their points ?

 I just thought I'd mention that my experience with IC's on bikes has been a good one. In a
 1500pt army I tend to take a GM on a bike with SOS and halo - pricy I know, but of all my
 models he is the one that my regular opponents fear most. I reckon that if you have a bike
 squad in your army then putting an IC on a bike is not a bad idea (the extra speed gets him
 into CC quickly -where he ought to be with those 4A and the SOS; and that extra toughness
 proves useful as well).

 Well, whatever you choose to do, happy gaming. 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               Thanks . :) . (1 Replies). erdagon[]. 2/26/2002 13:35 (2/28/2002 7:27) 
 I know , despite the fact that my post was directed to Bodycount , any thoughts concerning
 IC's on bikes are welcome . I've seen alot of things discussed inhere except the fact of putting
 an IC on a bike . Your thoughts have convinced me to try it out sometime , so thanks for a
 little advice to this old fart here . *lol* Anyway , good hunting .
 

 Erdagon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander
 HBK

 "Glory to the Angels of Death" 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                   back on the thread ... . (0 Replies). bodycount[]. 2/28/2002 7:27 (2/28/2002 7:27) 
 greetings erdagon faldan,

 sorry for a late reply, but i was cought in a warp distortion of sorts (that and a business
 project :))) so it seems i have some catching up do do. 

 >> Well , looking back to this whole thread I see the most replies come from you or me . So I
 guess we're either the only experienced DA players or the other ones don't want to share their
 wisdom with us . 

 thank you for your words of praise. seeing the last couple of posts i was glad to notice that
 there are new names on our thread - thank you guys for your input. and a big shout out of
 gratitude to all who participated in our discussions so far (big thanks you erdagon , aurion,
 littlepurplemonkey - a.k.a. the creator ;) - and everyone else). damn, almost souded as a
 good-bye, which it defiately is not :)))

 >> And now that I have your attention , what do you think about IC's on a bike ? Do you
 think they're worth their points ?

 a very good question. since i strongly believe that my ICs should end up in close combat (i
 think that basic A4 makes this justified) i like to make them as well prepared to CC as
 possible. and i can hardly think of a beter protection than the numbers of troops
 accompanying them - preferably a 10-men cmd squad.

 with bikes you gain three important advantages:
 - speed,
 - toughness,
 - excellent fire power.

 to tell you the truth i'm nowhere close to mastering the use of bikes yet, but from my limited
 experience i learned that bikes are NOT suited for CC - becouse of low numbers, high per
 model cost and becouse they can't shoot (IMHO their biggest strength) whrn stuck in cc.

 so i think that bikers are better off without an IC - he could add HtH punch - but i'd rather
 keep my bikes out of it, he can fire with BS 5 but he'll either shoot TL bolters or have range
 12" (plasma pistol or combi bolter w/ melta) - in any case i would spend too many points and
 gain too little.

 then there is the option to let him ride all by himself (and keep him screened by other units).
 this is perfectly ok, but you have to bear in mind that then he becomes a pure supporting unit
 (preferably riding behind a rhino or behind an asault squad).

 and finally there is the point cost. i'm not sure i'd go for the bike for my ic for 35 pts. that many
 points would buy a lot of wargear.

 so in a summary:
 - IMHO giving an IC a bike costs too many points for what i gain,
 - bikers have specific tactics (which IMHO do not suit the IC too well) and can get along
 without a character just fine,

 therefore i'd consider a bike for my IC only for my second HQ choice (the first obligatory
 choice is always geared up for HtH), and that preferably in a 2000 pts. battle or bigger. then i
 could either have the IC ride by himself (and lend HtH support wherever it's needed - thanks
 to effective 18" charge range) or join in a squad of bikers and act as "skirmishers" or tank
 hunters (lots of meltas ;).

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       RE: DA Tactical Thread (Input please) . (9 Replies). danimalicious[]. 2/26/2002 11:53 (3/5/2002 0:38) 
 I know that this may result in some repetition, or maybe it might bring make some of our ideas
 thus far more concise. I think that DA "suffer" from a lack of obviously different troops - and
 their special rules - as compared to Blood Angels or Black Templars or Space Wolves, and
 so it's difficult to consider strategies and tactics that work especially well for DA alone. Most
 strategies for a vanilla space marine army ought to work just fine for DA. However, there are
 special rules, and we ought to make sure we make full use of them. There is a reason why we
 all chose DA, after all.

 So, here's a list of all I can think of off-hand:
 -The Deathwing - 2 heavy weapons in a squad, as well as the option to field whatever
 combination of weaponary that we want
 -The Ravenwing - for a rather low cost, we get speeders and bike with an invulnerable save,
 and good drivers. and a nifty paint scheme
 -along those lines, we get the options of Ravening and Deathwing armies - very specialized
 forces that could really surprise an opponent
 -cheap terminator armor - best value among the different chapters
 -free plasma cannon upgrade from lascannon
 -command squad - the ability to take a cheap command squad that is as effective as many
 others is very nice - any way to shave a point here or there ought not be overlooked
 -stubborn sergeants/intractable rule - this may be a liability just when we want an advantage,
 but still, if you're going to hold your ground, DA are effective. On the other hand, if you get
 charged by a Bloodthirster, the last thing that you want to do is stick around. 
 -hunt for the fallen - easy way to maybe score some extra victory points - sure, why not? ^_^
 -the best fluff out there 

 So, how do we use these special rules to our fullest? I really like the aforementioned tactic of
 using a refused flank and then moving units up along an extreme flank, ultimately rolling
 through the opponent's flank. The Ravenwing with its speed and weaponry would make an
 effective extreme flank, while the intractable rule would make Deathwing units or even normal
 DA squads would be good for an anchor. 

 Are there other, vanilla tactics that would work well? Could they be adapted to take
 advantage of what makes DA special? 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           RE: RE: DA Tactical Thread (Input please) . (0 Replies). littlepurplemonkey[]. 2/26/2002 12:38
 (2/26/2002 12:38) 
 >> -the best fluff out there 
 Definitely :)
 On the subject of bikes I just thought I'd add that their ability to re-roll terrain saves can in
 certain situations be useful too. (If there's a wood on the table, you'd be amazed at what you
 can do :)) Ambushes galore! :) 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           a bag of tricks ... . (7 Replies). bodycount[]. 2/28/2002 18:25 (3/5/2002 0:38) 
 good work danimaliciuos, that is a very useful summary. it is true that a DA commander can
 usually resort to two kinds of strategies: vanilla marines-based concepts or specific DA
 tactics, usually based on chapter-specific rules/units/items.

 and i would like to come back to that last point, as it seems to missing from your list: DA
 restricted wargear.

 here is an example of what you can achieve with a tactical idea based around one of such
 items:

 standard of devastation (SoD). seemingly it is very simple - apart form sacred standard rules,
 once per game you get to shhot in enemy's assault phase before he moves his models. and you
 count as moving for shooting resolution purposes (even if you actually remained stationary).

 so two conclusions come to mind first: can't rapid fire or fire heavy weapons, and i'd better be
 moving, as not doing so does not give me any advantages. now let's have a look at a specially
 designed command squad:

 1 master w/ iron halo, power weapon, storm bolter
 1 vet sarge w/storm bolter
 1 apothecary w/storm bolter
 1 tachmarine w/storm bolter
 1 standard bearer w/storm bolter, SoD
 1 marine w/meltagun
 4 marines w/bolters
 mounted in a rhino w/extra armor, smokers, extra storm bolter
 total: 378 pts.

 imagine this: i move the rhino 6". the squad disembarks and takes up a firing position (i want to
 be within 12" of the enemy). in the shooting phae i open up:

 - 4 bolter shots from the rhino (extra s-bolter fires regardless of circumstances),
 - 14 bolter shots from the squad
 - 1 melta shot from the squad

 i can assault now - or wait and take a charge - especially if the enemy has no heavy weapons
 trained on my squad. i can use the rhino to cover my squad from one side - remember that
 when disembarking. if i decide to take a charge - the enemy gets it all over again minus the
 four shots from the rhino.

 and an equally interesting variant of this tactic, this time with the standard of fortitude (SoF).
 SoF lets you move and rapid fire. so instead of storm bolters the charcters get bolt pistols and
 CCW weapons (master gets a power weapon again), the vet sarge becomes sarge and the
 melta is replaced by a plasma gun. the cost is 345 if i'm not mistaken. the shooting phase
 begins (i'm within 12" of the enemy:

 - 4 bolter shots from the rhino,
 - 18 bolter shots from the squad
 - 2 plasma shots from the squad

 and i then i'm better prepared to take a charge as all my characters get 1 additional attack
 (that's 5 aditional attacks in total).

 what do you think - an idea worth pondering or not?

 also a very important question about general rules - can you raid fire using the SoF AND
 assault? i think it's illegal as you can't rapid fire and assault and SoF rules mention only the
 movement phase. but i'll be glad to hear some comments on this. 

 let me hear your tactics with DA restricted wargear.

 good hunting,

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               Tricky indeed . (6 Replies). erdagon[]. 2/28/2002 23:47 (3/5/2002 0:38) 
 >> also a very important question about general rules - can you raid fire using the SoF AND
 assault? i think it's illegal as you can't rapid fire and assault and SoF rules mention only the
 movement phase. but i'll be glad to hear some comments on this. 
 

 I think you can rapid fire and assault when you use the SoF . Normally without the Standard
 this isn't allowed to do so , but with the SoF I think you can , because it's something that is
 given by an Item . To make clear what I mean I'm gonna give an example from WHFB .
 Normally in WHFB undead can't march move , the only exception to this is when the Necro
 casts Van Hels Dance Macabre , then they can march move . I think that the SoF kinda
 works like that .
 

 Erdagon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander
 HBK 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                   about the undead ... . (5 Replies). bodycount[]. 3/1/2002 5:06 (3/5/2002 0:38) 
 >> I think you can rapid fire and assault when you use the SoF . Normally without the
 Standard this isn't allowed to do so , but with the SoF I think you can , because it's something
 that is given by an Item . To make clear what I mean I'm gonna give an example from WHFB
 . Normally in WHFB undead can't march move , the only exception to this is when the Necro
 casts Van Hels Dance Macabre , then they can march move . I think that the SoF kinda
 works like that .

 greetings erdagon,

 now, it's a long time since i played WHFB but as far as i know the undead CAN march in the
 last ed. :)))

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                       You're right . Almost . :p . (4 Replies). erdagon[]. 3/1/2002 11:42 (3/5/2002 0:38) 
 >> greetings erdagon,
 >> 
 >> now, it's a long time since i played WHFB but as far as i know the undead CAN march in
 the last ed. :)))
 >> 
 >> bodycount
 >> si vis pacem para bellum
 

 I can see that it has been a while indeed . *lol* You're right , they can march move , well , that
 is if there is a character in the unit or they are within 12" from the general at the start of the
 movement . Bur this is off topic . *lol* Anyway , I just used that example of the undead to
 state how I think the SoF works . Good hunting .
 

 Erdagon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander
 HBK

 "Glory to the Angels of Death" 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                           plasma frenzy ... . (3 Replies). bodycount[]. 3/4/2002 3:52 (3/5/2002 0:38) 
 greetings again, 

 if i ever consider coming back to wfb i now know whom to ask for advice and rules updates
 ;) thanks for clearing that up for me.

 and just to add a little to possible uses of standard of fortitude, what if ...

 1 chaplain/crozius arcanum, rosarius, plasma pistol
 1 vet sarge w/plasma pistol, CCW
 1 apothecary w/plasma pistol, CCW
 1 techmarine w/plasma pistol, CCW
 1 standard bearer w/plasma pistol, CCW, SoF
 1 marine w/plasma gun
 mounted in a razorback w/extra armor, lascan & TL plasma guns
 total: 392 (more or less, i'm (ab)using my memory ;)

 since you can use SoF in games of 2000+ points, this HQ would take less (but heck, just
 barely) than 20% of your force - so is more or less acceptable points-wise.

 now, i move up 6" with my 'back, disembark and atke up firing position within 12" of the
 enemy ...

 - 2 plasma bolts hitting on 2+
 - 8 plasma bolts hitting on 3+
 - 2 plasma bolts hitting on 3+ (re-roll misses)
 - and a lascan blast (hitting on 3+) on top of that ...

 and you thought those plague marines are tough ... :)))

 well just athought to cheer up everyone's begining of the week.

 good hunting,

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       RE: DA Tactical Thread (Input please) . (4 Replies). deathdroidMK[]. 2/26/2002 12:41 (3/8/2002 19:15) 
 A cout in a rhino, an assalt marine squad. Send them forward to distract and delay the enemy
 (dont charge them, in case they take you out in the first round). A vet sarg with stubborn and a
 power fist works wonders. Take at least 1 vindicator supported by a pred annialator (hv
 bolters for low armour, lascannons for heavy armoured). Screen the tanks with marines.
 remember MODELS block line of sight not units. A dev squad with missle launchers shoould
 also do the trick since they work against most armies. You could try this with plasma cannons
 but it is more costly. Last but mot least REMEMBER YOUR OBJECTIVES IN THE
 GAME!! I lost because of that.

 P.S NEVER LET A DEATH COMPANY UNIT IN A RHINO GET WITHIN 24". There
 is a trick for them so they can cover 24" in one turn. (Im sure its illegal). 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           Blood Angels trouble , eh ? . (1 Replies). erdagon[]. 2/26/2002 13:30 (2/27/2002 12:40) 
 >> P.S NEVER LET A DEATH COMPANY UNIT IN A RHINO GET WITHIN 24".
 There is a trick for them so they can cover 24" in one turn. (Im sure its illegal).

 Thanks for your bits of wisdom . For that PS of yours , I would like to say that don't let ANY
 Blood Angels Squad in a Rhino get near to you . Or better , just don't let any Blood Angel get
 near to you . Unfortunately , they can cover indeed 24" in 1 turn and it's all perfectly legal
 (there has been enough topics on the board crying about how beardy/cheesy the BA are [also
 according to view]) . Anyway , I think Against the BA your priority targets are the Rhino's
 and anything wearing a Jump Pack .
 

 Erdagon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander
 HBK 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               RE: Blood Angels trouble , eh ? . (0 Replies). deathdroidMK[]. 2/27/2002 12:40 (2/27/2002 12:40) 
 >> Thanks for your bits of wisdom . For that PS of yours , I would like to say that don't let
 ANY Blood Angels Squad in a Rhino get near to you . Or better , just don't let any Blood
 Angel get near to you . Unfortunately , they can cover indeed 24" in 1 turn and it's all perfectly
 legal (there has been enough topics on the board crying about how beardy/cheesy the BA are
 [also according to view]) . Anyway , I think Against the BA your priority targets are the
 Rhino's and anything wearing a Jump Pack .
 >> 

 Last time I fired at the rhinos and somehow I killed them in the first turn. At the end of the
 game the BA player moaned because the table (or my bedroom floor) was 5 foot long. He
 just said that cause he hates trudging along on foot. Note to him. Take more rhinos.

 To the other reply At least my friend was out of range anyway :D 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           reply . (1 Replies). aurion[]. 2/26/2002 14:22 (3/8/2002 19:15) 
 >> A cout in a rhino, an assalt marine squad. 

 I'm not sure what a "cout" is but you cannot put an assault squad in a rhino (it sucks but it's not
 an option for them).

 >>Send them forward to distract and delay the enemy (dont charge them, in case they take
 you out in the first round). A vet sarg with stubborn and a power fist works wonders. Take at
 least 1 vindicator supported by a pred annialator (hv bolters for low armour, lascannons for
 heavy armoured). Screen the tanks with marines. remember MODELS block line of sight not
 units. >>

 Don't forget that you CANNOT screen models with an AV with models with an armor save.
 Vehicles are just too massive to be screened by non-vehicles. It's in the Chapter Approved.

 I prefer to run the Annihilator with all lascannons. This allows me to specialize it in taking
 down vehicles and monstrous creatures. I leave the anti-infantry work to the plasma cannons
 and heavy bolters in my tac squads. I always take at least four tac squads (two with HBs and
 two with PCs). Vindicators also make great anti-infantry weapons. *grin*

 >>A dev squad with missle launchers shoould also do the trick since they work against most
 armies. You could try this with plasma cannons but it is more costly. Last but mot least
 REMEMBER YOUR OBJECTIVES IN THE GAME!! I lost because of that.
 >>

 NEVER forget your objectives. I win more games with one or two units left on the table but in
 control of the objective. Even a pyrrhic victory is a victory.

 >> P.S NEVER LET A DEATH COMPANY UNIT IN A RHINO GET WITHIN 24".
 There is a trick for them so they can cover 24" in one turn. (Im sure its illegal).>>

 I just shoot them with my Vindicator, lascannons, and missile launchers. Ain't no coming back
 from that. 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               ignore this im just posting so i can find the dang thread again my computer messed up
 (NT) . (0 Replies). irskin[]. 3/8/2002 19:15 (3/8/2002 19:15) 
 No Text 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       What's our best HQ choice? . (2 Replies). Drazden[]. 2/26/2002 16:54 (2/27/2002 5:41) 
 I'm just making up a 1-HQ list and I'm wondering, what HQ unit of the DA do you guys like
 best? GM, Chap, or Librarian (havent found a short form i can live with for Librarians yet)

 Personally, with the new tweak, I'm leaning towards the librarian--he rules! But Chaplains are
 decent too, especially when jump-packed, and GMs... Well, what can you say about the
 members of the inner circle without getting your head lopped off? Not much, I think.

 Ok, that's it. Which?
 
 

 Grand Master Drazden
 Currently engaged in a massive campaign against orks, so much so that his army would just
 about die against anything else. 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           GM w Term Armor, Storm Bolter, and SoS (NT) . (0 Replies). aurion[]. 2/26/2002 17:31 (2/26/2002
 17:31) 
 No Text 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           best hq choice ? . (0 Replies). erdagon[]. 2/27/2002 5:41 (2/27/2002 5:41) 
 Hmmm , though one . I think a GM with the SoS , a pistol , Iron Halo and a JP should be a
 true hth combat monster (6 strenght 6 power weapon attacks , I think that kills , even Death
 guard are wounded on a 3+) . But I think Aurion is right , a GM with the SoS , storm bolter
 and in TA can kill enemies in hth and shoot them up too . Also ,a Lib might be good , if given
 TA and a Force weapon . One wound and a force test and there they go . :)
 As I said , though decision to make . *l* I guess after all it depends on what you like . I think
 they're all good choices when you use them right . Well , that's my rant . 
 

 Erdagon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander
 HBK

 "Glory to the Angels of Death"

 PS : wow , close to 100 replies , cool . And ofcourse , the boot back to page 1 . :) 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       Repent for Tommorow you Die!!!! . (7 Replies). Masterofthedeathwing[]. 2/26/2002 18:09 (2/28/2002
 0:01) 
 ++++Hq:(Grand)Master o'Deathwing(goes with Deathwing)
 S.O.S. stormbolter T.armor
 Pts:135
 ++++Hq 2:Interrogator Chaplain Zeru(my 40k name!!)(goes with the Assault squad)
 J.pack,A.armor,ccw(yes realy!!),Crozius arcanum,Rosarius
 Pts:131

 +++Elite:8 man Deathwing squad
 Srg.powersword,stormbolter
 4xBasic:Sbolter,powerfists
 Specialists:assaultcannon,H.flamer,2xChainfists
 assault spec:2xlightningclaws
 pts:416
 (((Note:planing on replacing H.flamer with another A.cannon,and replacing 2 normal for 2
 T.hammer termis)))))

 ++Elite 2:Dreadnought "Lucky"
 T.L.lascannon,S.launcher,E.armor,D.ccw w/stormbolter
 pts:130

 The Troops:(3 in all!!!!)
 +++(10 man)Tac.1:(Elim's boys)
 V.sarg(Elim)p.sword,P.pistol,stubborn
 H.weapon:H.bolter
 A.weapon:P.gun
 The rest are the basics:Bolters
 pts:201
 (Elim is named after a DA from a Imperialliterature story[Darkest angel]he earned the name
 when he wounded a carnifex in CC and the carnifex missed him completly!!!!)
 +++(10 man)Troop 2:
 V.Sarg:P.sword,P.pistol,stubborn
 H.weapon:lascannon
 A.weapon:P.Gun
 The basics:bolters
 pts:211
 +++Troop 3(The Old men)
 V.sarg:ccw,boltpistol,stubborn("Gramps" himself)
 H.weapon:L.cannon
 A.weapon:P.gun
 Basics:Bolters
 pts:185
 ((((They are called the old men because there mostly 2nd ed models!!!))))) 
 

 Fast attack:
 ++++AssaultSqd:
 V.sarg:powersword,stubborn,boltpistol
 specialists:2xP.pistols,ccw
 The rest:ccw,boltpistols,frag grenades
 pts:290

 HEAVY SUPPORT:
 ++Dev.Squad:(The Devils)
 Sarg:bolter
 2xP.cannon
 2xM.launcher
 pts:165

 Over all pts: 1866(I just made it with the new rules)
 

 THINGS I ALREADY KNOW:
 I am going to get the new DA Tac squad
 and swap the H.bolter in Elims squad for one of the P.cannons from the Devils.
 And another thing I dont use tanks often they get blown up easily
 and have limitations that my Dread doesnt.

 Well give me,advice,be a critic,and use my army as a guide if you see it fit,and remember
 every thing counts in large amounts!!!!
 

 REPENT for tommorow you Die!!!!
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           RE: Repent for Tommorow you Die!!!! . (3 Replies). danimalicious[]. 2/26/2002 19:32 (2/27/2002 11:30)

 >> ++Elite 2:Dreadnought "Lucky"
 >> T.L.lascannon,S.launcher,E.armor,D.ccw w/stormbolter
 >> pts:130
 >> 

 One thing to say about this Dread is why the launchers? He has twin-linked lascannons - don't
 you want to use them every turn? hell, even if there aren't tanks to be seen, that's still two
 models insta-killed. 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               twinlinked = 2kills ? No way . . (2 Replies). erdagon[]. 2/26/2002 23:48 (2/27/2002 11:30) 
 >> hell, even if there aren't tanks to be seen, that's still two models insta-killed. 

 Sorry to say , but a twin linked Las allows you to reroll a failed hit . I don't see where that
 second hit comes from .
 

 Erdagon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander
 HBK 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                   RE: twinlinked = 2kills ? No way . . (1 Replies). danimalicious[]. 2/27/2002 10:55 (2/27/2002
 11:30) 
 >> >> hell, even if there aren't tanks to be seen, that's still two models insta-killed. 
 >> 
 >> Sorry to say , but a twin linked Las allows you to reroll a failed hit . I don't see where that
 second hit comes from .
 >> 
 >> 
 >> Erdagon Faldan
 >> Dark Angels commander
 >> HBK

 nuts - my clever ruse is not so clever. Still used to 2nd edition rules, where twin-linked meant
 two weapons and therefore two shots. I mean, there are two lascannons... oh well. 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                       I know . . (0 Replies). erdagon[]. 2/27/2002 11:30 (2/27/2002 11:30) 
 >> nuts - my clever ruse is not so clever. Still used to 2nd edition rules, where twin-linked
 meant two weapons and therefore two shots. I mean, there are two lascannons... oh well.

 I know . Back in second ed twinlinked was more fun . :) one hit actually meant two hits and
 with a lascannon it spelled almost certain doom to what ever got hit . Ah , good ole 2nd ed
 times .....
 

 Erdagon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander
 HBK 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           A word in your ear ..... . (2 Replies). erdagon[]. 2/26/2002 23:59 (2/28/2002 0:01) 
 >> ++++Hq:(Grand)Master o'Deathwing(goes with Deathwing)
 >> S.O.S. stormbolter T.armor
 >> Pts:135

 Nice .

 >> ++++Hq 2:Interrogator Chaplain Zeru(my 40k name!!)(goes with the Assault squad)
 >> J.pack,A.armor,ccw(yes realy!!),Crozius arcanum,Rosarius
 >> Pts:131

 I don't see the point of gicving him a second CCW , if you gave him a pistol instead he could
 still help firing up the squad you want to charge .

 >> +++Elite:8 man Deathwing squad
 >> Srg.powersword,stormbolter
 >> 4xBasic:Sbolter,powerfists
 >> Specialists:assaultcannon,H.flamer,2xChainfists
 >> assault spec:2xlightningclaws
 >> pts:416
 >> (((Note:planing on replacing H.flamer with another A.cannon,and replacing 2 normal for 2
 T.hammer termis)))))

 Cool . A nice weapon mix .

 >> ++Elite 2:Dreadnought "Lucky"
 >> T.L.lascannon,S.launcher,E.armor,D.ccw w/stormbolter
 >> pts:130

 My advice here would be to drop the Smoker and give him a Missile Launcher and use him to
 kill from a long distance .

 >> The Troops:(3 in all!!!!)
 >> +++(10 man)Tac.1:(Elim's boys)
 >> V.sarg(Elim)p.sword,P.pistol,stubborn
 >> H.weapon:H.bolter
 >> A.weapon:P.gun
 >> The rest are the basics:Bolters
 >> pts:201
 >> (Elim is named after a DA from a Imperialliterature story[Darkest angel]he earned the
 name when he wounded a carnifex in CC and the carnifex missed him completly!!!!)
 >> +++(10 man)Troop 2:
 >> V.Sarg:P.sword,P.pistol,stubborn
 >> H.weapon:lascannon
 >> A.weapon:P.Gun
 >> The basics:bolters
 >> pts:211
 >> +++Troop 3(The Old men)
 >> V.sarg:ccw,boltpistol,stubborn("Gramps" himself)
 >> H.weapon:L.cannon
 >> A.weapon:P.gun
 >> Basics:Bolters
 >> pts:185
 >> ((((They are called the old men because there mostly 2nd ed models!!!))))) 
 >> 

 Unless you use these as extra assault groups I don't see a point of making the Vet Sarge
 stubborn . Afterall , it can be wise to sometimes fall back . If you do use them as extra assault
 teams then I don't see much use of the heavy weapons . Afterall , you can't move these and
 then fire your heavy weaponry (And wasting a turn before you can assault could spell these
 guys their doom) .

 >> Fast attack:
 >> ++++AssaultSqd:
 >> V.sarg:powersword,stubborn,boltpistol
 >> specialists:2xP.pistols,ccw
 >> The rest:ccw,boltpistols,frag grenades
 >> pts:290

 Should be one of the Standard fast attack choices (in numbers and equipment , only the Vet
 Sarge can differ) in every DA army that uses Assualt squads as a FA choice .

 >> HEAVY SUPPORT:
 >> ++Dev.Squad:(The Devils)
 >> Sarg:bolter
 >> 2xP.cannon
 >> 2xM.launcher
 >> pts:165

 If this is a 5 man squad then I suggest you expand them with atleast one extra trooper . The
 more the better so that they can soak a little damage . With only 5 men in that squad you'll
 take heavy weapon losses too soon .
 

 As usual , this is my view on your army , feel free to change what you think that sounded
 reasonable to you . Anyway , good luck and Good hunting .
 

 Erdagon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander
 HBK

 "Glory to the Angels of Death" 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               RE: A word in your ear ..... . (1 Replies). Masterofthedeathwing[]. 2/27/2002 17:18 (2/28/2002 0:01)
 >> >> ++++Hq:(Grand)Master o'Deathwing(goes with Deathwing)
 >> >> S.O.S. stormbolter T.armor
 >> >> Pts:135
 >> 

 >> Nice .
 >> 
 

 >> >> ++++Hq 2:Interrogator Chaplain Zeru(my 40k name!!)(goes with the Assault squad)
 >> >> J.pack,A.armor,ccw(yes realy!!),Crozius arcanum,Rosarius
 >> >> Pts:131
 >> 

 >> I don't see the point of gicving him a second CCW , if you gave him a pistol instead he
 could still help firing up the squad you want to charge . 
 

 +++++I play what you see is what you get and my chaplain is using the Asmodia model+a
 jumppack
 

 >> 
 >> >> +++Elite:8 man Deathwing squad
 >> >> Srg.powersword,stormbolter
 >> >> 4xBasic:Sbolter,powerfists
 >> >> Specialists:assaultcannon,H.flamer,2xChainfists
 >> >> assault spec:2xlightningclaws
 >> >> pts:416
 >> >> (((Note:planing on replacing H.flamer with another 
 A.cannon,and replacing 2 normal for 2 T.hammer termis)))))
 >> 
 >> Cool . A nice weapon mix .
 >> 

 +++Note:there are only 3 norm. termis messedup and put 4 instead

 >> >> ++Elite 2:Dreadnought "Lucky"
 >> >> T.L.lascannon,S.launcher,E.armor,D.ccw w/stormbolter
 >> >> pts:130
 >> 

 >> My advice here would be to drop the Smoker and give him a Missile Launcher and use
 him to kill from a long distance .

 ++see chaplain response and also The powerfist is there for big things and other dreads
 because I fight nids alot,and my lascannon gets blown of often so I use smokelaunchers to
 help him get closer to the enemy.Also I play aggresivly I advance with my Dread and termis
 and they fire on the way to assault

 >> 
 >> >> The Troops:(3 in all!!!!)
 >> >> +++(10 man)Tac.1:(Elim's boys)
 >> >> V.sarg(Elim)p.sword,P.pistol,stubborn
 >> >> H.weapon:H.bolter
 >> >> A.weapon:P.gun
 >> >> The rest are the basics:Bolters
 >> >> pts:201
 >> >> (Elim is named after a DA from a Imperialliterature story[Darkest angel]he earned the
 name when he wounded a carnifex in CC and the carnifex missed him completly!!!!)
 >> >> +++(10 man)Troop 2:
 >> >> V.Sarg:P.sword,P.pistol,stubborn
 >> >> H.weapon:lascannon
 >> >> A.weapon:P.Gun
 >> >> The basics:bolters
 >> >> pts:211
 >> >> +++Troop 3(The Old men)
 >> >> V.sarg:ccw,boltpistol,stubborn("Gramps" himself)
 >> >> H.weapon:L.cannon
 >> >> A.weapon:P.gun
 >> >> Basics:Bolters
 >> >> pts:185
 >> >> ((((They are called the old men because there mostly 2nd ed models!!!))))) 
 >> >> 
 >> 
 

 >> Unless you use these as extra assault groups I don't see a point of making the Vet Sarge
 stubborn . Afterall , it can be wise to sometimes fall back . If you do use them as extra assault
 teams then I don't see much use of the heavy weapons . Afterall , you can't move these and
 then fire your heavy weaponry (And wasting a turn before you can assault could spell these
 guys their doom) .
 

 They slow down my enemys assault units and forces them to sweeping advance and get shot
 by my Devils or other tactical squads and stoping a carnifex for a few turn and possible
 harming it is worth the casualties.(plus my tyranid buddie likes to leave the sarg alive so they
 are stuck but often my sarg ends up killing or wounding the carnifex. 
 Also you would by suprised at the damage 1 V.sarg can do!!! 
 

 >> >> Fast attack:
 >> >> ++++AssaultSqd:
 >> >> V.sarg:powersword,stubborn,boltpistol
 >> >> specialists:2xP.pistols,ccw
 >> >> The rest:ccw,boltpistols,frag grenades
 >> >> pts:290
 >> 
 >> Should be one of the Standard fast attack choices (in numbers and equipment , only the
 Vet Sarge can differ) in every DA army that uses Assualt squads as a FA choice .
 >> 
 >> >> HEAVY SUPPORT:
 >> >> ++Dev.Squad:(The Devils)
 >> >> Sarg:bolter
 >> >> 2xP.cannon
 >> >> 2xM.launcher
 >> >> pts:165
 >> 
 >> If this is a 5 man squad then I suggest you expand them with atleast one extra trooper .
 The more the better so that they can soak a little damage . With only 5 men in that squad
 you'll take heavy weapon losses too soon .
 

 ++++Too true
 

 >> 
 >> 
 >> As usual , this is my view on your army , feel free to change what you think that sounded
 reasonable to you . Anyway , good luck and Good hunting .
 >> 
 >> 
 >> Erdagon Faldan
 >> Dark Angels commander
 >> HBK
 >> 
 >> "Glory to the Angels of Death"
 

 Master Zeru interrigator Chaplain
 Repent For tommorow you Die!!!! 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                   I see . . (0 Replies). erdagon[]. 2/28/2002 0:01 (2/28/2002 0:01) 
 >> >> >> ++++Hq 2:Interrogator Chaplain Zeru(my 40k name!!)(goes with the Assault
 squad)
 >> >> >> J.pack,A.armor,ccw(yes realy!!),Crozius arcanum,Rosarius
 >> >> >> Pts:131
 >> >> 
 >> 
 >> >> I don't see the point of gicving him a second CCW , if you gave him a pistol instead he
 could still help firing up the squad you want to charge . 
 >> 
 >> 
 >> +++++I play what you see is what you get and my chaplain is using the Asmodia model+a
 jumppack

 Ah , it makes sense now . :)

 >> >> 
 >> >> >> +++Elite:8 man Deathwing squad
 >> >> >> Srg.powersword,stormbolter
 >> >> >> 4xBasic:Sbolter,powerfists
 >> >> >> Specialists:assaultcannon,H.flamer,2xChainfists
 >> >> >> assault spec:2xlightningclaws
 >> >> >> pts:416
 >> >> >> (((Note:planing on replacing H.flamer with another 
 >> A.cannon,and replacing 2 normal for 2 T.hammer termis)))))
 >> >> 
 >> >> Cool . A nice weapon mix .
 >> >> 
 >> 
 >> +++Note:there are only 3 norm. termis messedup and put 4 instead

 Still , a nice weapon mix . 

 >> >> >> ++Elite 2:Dreadnought "Lucky"
 >> >> >> T.L.lascannon,S.launcher,E.armor,D.ccw w/stormbolter
 >> >> >> pts:130
 >> >> 
 >> 
 >> >> My advice here would be to drop the Smoker and give him a Missile Launcher and
 use him to kill from a long distance .
 >> 
 >> ++see chaplain response and also The powerfist is there for big things and other dreads
 because I fight nids alot,and my lascannon gets blown of often so I use smokelaunchers to
 help him get closer to the enemy.Also I play aggresivly I advance with my Dread and termis
 and they fire on the way to assault

 Ah , I guess that's thenindeed a good choice hen you find your main opponent to be Nids .

 >> >> >> The Troops:(3 in all!!!!)
 >> >> >> +++(10 man)Tac.1:(Elim's boys)
 >> >> >> V.sarg(Elim)p.sword,P.pistol,stubborn
 >> >> >> H.weapon:H.bolter
 >> >> >> A.weapon:P.gun
 >> >> >> The rest are the basics:Bolters
 >> >> >> pts:201
 >> >> >> (Elim is named after a DA from a Imperialliterature story[Darkest angel]he earned
 the name when he wounded a carnifex in CC and the carnifex missed him completly!!!!)
 >> >> >> +++(10 man)Troop 2:
 >> >> >> V.Sarg:P.sword,P.pistol,stubborn
 >> >> >> H.weapon:lascannon
 >> >> >> A.weapon:P.Gun
 >> >> >> The basics:bolters
 >> >> >> pts:211
 >> >> >> +++Troop 3(The Old men)
 >> >> >> V.sarg:ccw,boltpistol,stubborn("Gramps" himself)
 >> >> >> H.weapon:L.cannon
 >> >> >> A.weapon:P.gun
 >> >> >> Basics:Bolters
 >> >> >> pts:185
 >> >> >> ((((They are called the old men because there mostly 2nd ed models!!!))))) 
 >> >> >> 
 >> >> 
 >> 
 >> 
 >> >> Unless you use these as extra assault groups I don't see a point of making the Vet
 Sarge stubborn . Afterall , it can be wise to sometimes fall back . If you do use them as extra
 assault teams then I don't see much use of the heavy weapons . Afterall , you can't move these
 and then fire your heavy weaponry (And wasting a turn before you can assault could spell
 these guys their doom) .
 >> 
 >> 
 >> They slow down my enemys assault units and forces them to sweeping advance and get
 shot by my Devils or other tactical squads and stoping a carnifex for a few turn and possible
 harming it is worth the casualties.(plus my tyranid buddie likes to leave the sarg alive so they
 are stuck but often my sarg ends up killing or wounding the carnifex. 
 >> Also you would by suprised at the damage 1 V.sarg can do!!! 

 I didn' say it's bad to make Vet sarges stubborn . I just don't see a point in making a Vet
 sarge stubborn if the only thing you do with that squad is just sit around and shoot , or if you
 use the Tac squad as a fire platform , in that case I think it's betterto justt havea Vet Sarge that
 ca add firepower to his squad and can fall back incase some enemy squads would be able to
 reach them . When used to assault , then indeed it's better to have him stubborn so that the
 Squad can tie up those dangerous squads long enough to trick them in a fire zone .

 >> >> >> Fast attack:
 >> >> >> ++++AssaultSqd:
 >> >> >> V.sarg:powersword,stubborn,boltpistol
 >> >> >> specialists:2xP.pistols,ccw
 >> >> >> The rest:ccw,boltpistols,frag grenades
 >> >> >> pts:290
 >> >> 
 >> >> Should be one of the Standard fast attack choices (in numbers and equipment , only
 the Vet Sarge can differ) in every DA army that uses Assualt squads as a FA choice .
 >> >> 
 >> >> >> HEAVY SUPPORT:
 >> >> >> ++Dev.Squad:(The Devils)
 >> >> >> Sarg:bolter
 >> >> >> 2xP.cannon
 >> >> >> 2xM.launcher
 >> >> >> pts:165
 >> >> 
 >> >> If this is a 5 man squad then I suggest you expand them with atleast one extra trooper .
 The more the better so that they can soak a little damage . With only 5 men in that squad
 you'll take heavy weapon losses too soon .
 >> 
 >> 
 >> ++++Too true
 >> 
 >> 
 >> >> 
 >> >> 
 >> >> As usual , this is my view on your army , feel free to change what you think that
 sounded reasonable to you . Anyway , good luck and Good hunting .
 

 Anyway , good hunting .
 

 Eragon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander
 HBK

 "Glory to the Angels of Death" 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       Uhhhhh *BUMP* :)(N/T) . (0 Replies). Masterofthedeathwing[]. 2/27/2002 8:40 (2/27/2002 8:40) 
 >> Hello, could you Dark Angels guys give me some general tactical advice and force
 composition advice please.
 >> Thanks. 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       Confusion over Command Squads... . (8 Replies). Yaj[]. 2/27/2002 8:41 (2/27/2002 13:29) 
 I just look through the DA codex & when I read the command squad entry it said I should use
 the command squad entry in the SM codex, thats fine but next to it said...

 Deathwing master - Deathwing terminators

 Ravenwing master - Ravenwing bike/landspeeder squadron

 Anyother - Dark Angels Tactical squad.

 Do I select a command squad from the command squad entry in the SM codex or the Tactical
 squad entry in the SM codex?

 Thanks

 Yaj, 3 Units Advance for the Lion!! 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           RE: Confusion over Command Squads... . (0 Replies). littlepurplemonkey[]. 2/27/2002 11:13
 (2/27/2002 11:13) 
 >> Do I select a command squad from the command squad entry in the SM codex or the
 Tactical squad entry in the SM codex?

 I'm pretty sure you use the tactical squad entry (with modifications applied as per the entry in
 the DA book e.g. apothecaries etc.). Well I hope that helps.
 Happy Gaming.

 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           the Tac squad it is . . (0 Replies). erdagon[]. 2/27/2002 11:56 (2/27/2002 11:56) 
 Hail Brother . Indeed , where other marines have a command squad consisiting of veterans ,
 we Dark Angels use our Tac squads instead since our Elite only fights in Terminator Armour .
 Ofcourse , this has it's advantages and disadvantages . The disadvantages are the fact that our
 Com Squad marines only have a ld of 8 and we have to pay 6pts for the Flamer . Also , we're
 only allowed one special weapon and one Heavy weapon were as other Marines may use
 either one of both , or either two heavy or two special weapons . The advantages are that we
 only pay 15pts per Com squad Marine and the heavy weapons are cheaper to buy ( up to
 twice or thrice times cheaper) . All other options available to normal SM Com squads are also
 available to us . So let our command squads rain death upon our enemies . Good Hunting
 

 Erdagon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander
 HBK

 "Glory to the Angels of Death" 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           things have changed... . (5 Replies). aurion[]. 2/27/2002 12:07 (2/27/2002 13:29) 
 >> I just look through the DA codex & when I read the command squad entry it said I should
 use the command squad entry in the SM codex, thats fine but next to it said...
 >> 
 >> Deathwing master - Deathwing terminators
 >> 
 >> Ravenwing master - Ravenwing bike/landspeeder squadron
 >> 
 >> Anyother - Dark Angels Tactical squad.
 >> 
 >> Do I select a command squad from the command squad entry in the SM codex or the
 Tactical squad entry in the SM codex?
 >> 

 The original DA codex allowed you to purchase a Master or Grand Master of the
 Deathwing/Ravenwing to lead your standard army. If you took one of those choices you had
 the option to take their "army type" as your command squad. BUT...You had to take one of
 those to lead one of the special armies. In other words, you couldn't create a Deathwing army
 with a Librarian HQ unless you took his as the secondary HQ (which is expensive).

 Since the WD update to the codex any leader can now lead any army but they are limited with
 their command squad to the type of army they are leading. Your command is no longer
 divided up into the special leader types.

 Hope that helps.

 Aurion Shidhe 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               RE: things have changed... . (4 Replies). danimalicious[]. 2/27/2002 12:29 (2/27/2002 13:29) 
 this is in regards to the Ravenwing Master. Which might be more effective - the Master in his
 landspeeder with all of its special rules and what not (and high point value), or just putting him
 on a bike? Yes, we get a command squad with the bike squadron, but how effective would
 that be? I guess that that would be the only/best way to make an effective HTH bike unit - 
 Master on Bike
 Apothecary on Bike
 Techmarine on Bike
 Vet Sgt. on bike
 Standard bearer on Bike (it would be damn hard to drive that bike though with a giant
 banner...)
 Attack Bike w/ Heavy Bolter

 give the characters some power weapons and have at the enemy. Or are bikes not really
 tough enough to support this kind of HTH unit? 

 On a related note, the squad entry for a Ravenwing Bike Squad says that a squad consists of
 at most 4 bikes. We can buy an Attack Bike for this squad. Does this bike replace one of the
 4 existing bikes in teh squad, or does it come in addition to it, allowing us to field 4 bikes
 *and* 1 attack bike? 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                   ravenwing goodness... . (2 Replies). aurion[]. 2/27/2002 12:45 (2/27/2002 13:29) 
 >> this is in regards to the Ravenwing Master. Which might be more effective - the Master in
 his landspeeder with all of its special rules and what not (and high point value), or just putting
 him on a bike? Yes, we get a command squad with the bike squadron, but how effective
 would that be? I guess that that would be the only/best way to make an effective HTH bike
 unit - 

 I am personally a shooty commander. Just the thought of the Master of the RW with a
 Landspeeder Retinue all armed with Heavy Bolters and Assault Cannon gives me a woody. I
 need to get out more!

 >> give the characters some power weapons and have at the enemy. Or are bikes not really
 tough enough to support this kind of HTH unit? 
 >> 

 I don't think they're worth the cost. They still die easily to anything with an AP of 3 or better.

 >> On a related note, the squad entry for a Ravenwing Bike Squad says that a squad consists
 of at most 4 bikes. We can buy an Attack Bike for this squad. Does this bike replace one of
 the 4 existing bikes in teh squad, or does it come in addition to it, allowing us to field 4 bikes
 *and* 1 attack bike?

 I don't think this replaces any of the other bikes. The entry says it may be included in the unit.
 Most other units that replace models with upgrades will say so (such as the Ork Nob
 upgrade).

 Aurion Shidhe 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                       RE: ravenwing goodness... . (1 Replies). littlepurplemonkey[]. 2/27/2002 12:59 (2/27/2002
 13:29) 
 :( - so much anti-bike feeling around these days. If used well and with a bit of luck they can do
 wonders (Or maybe I'm just lucky with my bikes). I was having a discussion with a chaos
 playing friend of mine the other day and he was commenting on how his bikes always die,
 unlike mine, which is interesting since he always beats me! But I like the Ravenwing bikes both
 in terms of fluff and manoeuverability. Obviously everyone has their own tastes but I think that
 bikes are a little undervalued by many people. There are few things with more
 manoueverability and that makes their tactical potential fairly large. anyway the choice is
 always that of the commander as to whether or not he takes them, and either way happy
 gaming. :) 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                           RE: RE: ravenwing goodness... . (0 Replies). aurion[]. 2/27/2002 13:29 (2/27/2002 13:29) 
 >> :( - so much anti-bike feeling around these days. If used well and with a bit of luck they
 can do wonders (Or maybe I'm just lucky with my bikes). I was having a discussion with a
 chaos playing friend of mine the other day and he was commenting on how his bikes always
 die, unlike mine, which is interesting since he always beats me! But I like the Ravenwing bikes
 both in terms of fluff and manoeuverability. Obviously everyone has their own tastes but I
 think that bikes are a little undervalued by many people. There are few things with more
 manoueverability and that makes their tactical potential fairly large. anyway the choice is
 always that of the commander as to whether or not he takes them, and either way happy
 gaming. :)

 Oh, don't get me wrong, I love the RW bikes! I just prefer the Master with Landspeeder
 Retinue for the sheer amount of firepower it gives you.

 Aurion Shidhe 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                   RW command squads . (0 Replies). erdagon[]. 2/27/2002 13:09 (2/27/2002 13:09) 
 >> this is in regards to the Ravenwing Master. Which might be more effective - the Master in
 his landspeeder with all of its special rules and what not (and high point value), or just putting
 him on a bike? Yes, we get a command squad with the bike squadron, but how effective
 would that be? I guess that that would be the only/best way to make an effective HTH bike
 unit - 

 I think it all depends on what you want to do with your RW (grand)Master . If you like
 serious anti-infantry fire power then he'll do fine in his Landspeeder joined with a Com squad
 of speeders (indeed , 4 LS with HB and AC can kill off any infantry (or swarm) squad , not to
 mention the the Master's LS is twin linked ) . If you want to use them as a fast assault
 response team I think he'll better of on a bike then (and ofcourse joined with a command
 squad , also , go for the GrandMaster) , plus , on a bike he's allowed 50pts of wargear (but
 no master crafting 
 :( ) .

 >> Master on Bike
 >> Apothecary on Bike
 >> Techmarine on Bike
 >> Vet Sgt. on bike
 >> Standard bearer on Bike (it would be damn hard to drive that bike though with a giant
 banner...)

 Well , fixed on the back of the bike ....... ;) .

 >> Attack Bike w/ Heavy Bolter
 >> 
 >> give the characters some power weapons and have at the enemy. Or are bikes not really
 tough enough to support this kind of HTH unit? 

 I don't know . After all , you get a T increase , but still anything with an AP of 3 or better kills
 them off as before . the only advantage of the bike so far is that they've become a little more
 reselient against standard weaponry . But I think they can do as well as an Assault squad in
 hth . If they get there , that is .

 >> On a related note, the squad entry for a Ravenwing Bike Squad says that a squad consists
 of at most 4 bikes. We can buy an Attack Bike for this squad. Does this bike replace one of
 the 4 existing bikes in teh squad, or does it come in addition to it, allowing us to field 4 bikes
 *and* 1 attack bike?

 It's 4 bikes and an attack bike . Not just 4 (including attack bike) in total . So in total you get
 6 bikes , the (G)MOTRW , his 4 Com Squad bikers and the Attack Bike . Well , if you truly
 want to know , I would say that you try out both Master versions and see which one you like
 the most . Good Hunying .
 

 Erdagon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander
 HBK

 "Glory to the Angels of Death" 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       Deathwing Armies... . (1 Replies). aurion[]. 2/27/2002 13:35 (2/28/2002 0:08) 
 Just wondering how many of you play pure Deathwing armies. I finally purchased enough
 models (pricy little buggers) to field one last week. On Saturday I played a take and hold vs.
 IG and they were the defenders.

 It wasn't pretty. I decided to Drop Pod my entire army in and he just gave up at the end of the
 first turn. I managed to at least stun all of his tanks and flamered all his squads in his bunkers. I
 felt kinda sorry for him. By the end of the turn he only had one unit on the table that could
 actually control the objctive. And he really only had his HQ left to bring on the table.

 Aurion Shidhe 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           Deathwing Army . (0 Replies). erdagon[]. 2/28/2002 0:08 (2/28/2002 0:08) 
 I don't play a DW army yet , but I'm considering it . Well , I think I would be able to field a
 decent army , if I get all the required figs painted . *l* Don't know how much exactly I have
 pointswise , but I guess it should be between 1500 and 2000 pts . Yeah , I bet that when the
 DW drop pod (or teleport) in that many players get desperate . I think that the ability to mix
 assault weapons with the big guns makes a DW squad more favorable (and so slightly better)
 than other Marine Termies . I think that if I would have been hitted so hard like you hitted
 your opponent I would probably give up too . I guess that you showed how much damage a
 DW army can do when they drop in . Good hunting .

 Erdagon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander
 HBK 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       a bump for stewardofgondor, your newest Dark Angel (NT) . (0 Replies).
 BloodAngelBrotherEdward[]. 2/27/2002 15:28 (2/27/2002 15:28) 
 No Text 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       RE: DA Tactical Thread (Input please) . (0 Replies). Glorfindel_888[]. 2/27/2002 17:48 (2/27/2002 17:48) 
 Well I thought I would add to this post a few thoughts, and post my army when I get back to
 my list at home. Anyways I have had great success with a few items.

 -10 Man scout squad with 8 Sniper Rifles, and a Heavy Bolter

 With this combo I left the sargent as having 2 weapons in case of an assault, but you could try
 9 sniper rifles if you wish. This is one squad I constantly have people look at and go how
 many snipers? or look at all the snipers! Hee Hee. Bit of a shock actually, as this squad can
 cause some nasty damage. I know this isn't a DA specific squad, but I find it works well and
 thought I would pass it on.
 

 The other is my Deathwing and how I use them. Although I don't have a full army yet I have
 had some really good success with just a few standard options in my DA army.

 Add 5 man Deathwing Terminators with 1 Assualt Cannon and Sargent armed with power
 sword,
 1 Dreadnought with Twin-linked Autocannon, and Power Fist, with Storm bolter.
 1 GM armed with Storm Bolter, and SoS.

 This combo I found works quiet nicely together. It is the type of Scenerio where the
 Terminators, and the Dreadnought support eahc other very well. Although they are slow their
 realtively long range for shooting. Also I have had a good success with using the GM and
 Dreadnought as counter charge units. This combo I found can also be extremly hard to move
 out of an area if I desided that I want them to hold it.
 

 -Glorfindel_888 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       RE: DA Tactical Thread (Input please) . (2 Replies). Glorfindel_888[]. 2/28/2002 2:17 (2/28/2002 12:50) 
 Well here is a listing of everything I have. Normally don't have a set list I used, but make it up
 choosing from the listing below, so I know I have more heavy support, or fast attack or etc.
 then I am allowed. Any advice or suggestions as to what to add though. I am thinking of
 making an all Ravenwing army next(expensive though OUCH)
 

 HQ (Normally take only one of the below)
 -Grandmaster - Sword of Secrets, Terminator Armour, Storm Bolter
 or
 -Grandmaster - Sword of Secrets, PLasma Pistol, Jump Pack, Iron Halo

 -Interregator Chaplin - Standard Equiment on a bike with Melta Bombs
 or
 -Interregator Chaplin - Standard Equipment in Terminator armour, with a Storm Bolter
 or
 -Interregator Chaplin - Stnadard Equipment in Terminator Armour, with a Storm Bolter, and
 Power Fist

 -Librarian - Force Weapon, Plasma Pistol, Jump Pack, Iron Halo/Artificer Armour(Depends
 on if he is the only character)
 or
 -Librarian - Force Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Pyscic Hood, Iron Halo/Artificer Armour(Depends
 on if he is the only character)

 -10 man Command Squad - Apothecary(Jump Pack, Plasma Pistol, CC Weapon to join
 Assualt marines), Techmarine(Servo Arm, Plasma Pistol), Standard Bearer(Plasma Pistol,
 Standard of somekind) I have to say that I never field the command squad as I find it too
 expensive 98% of the time and not as effective as a standard tactical squad. I know you don't
 need to take the extra options, but what is the point of the squad if you don't.
 

 Troops
 -10 Man Scout Squad - 8 Sniper Rifles, 1 Heavy Bolter, Standard Sargent with Bolt Pistol,
 and CC weapon

 -2 X 10 Man Tactical Squad - 8 Bolters, 1 Plasma Gun, 1 Heavy Bolter mounted in Rhinos

 -1 X 6 Man Tactical Squad - 4 Bolters, 1 Plasma Gun, 1 Plasma Canon mounted in a
 Razorback with Twinlinked Heavy Bolters
 

 Elites
 -7 Man Deathwing Terminator Squad - Sargent with Power Sword and Storm Bolter, 1
 Terminator with 2 lightning claws, 1 Assualt Cannon/Power fist, 1 Heavy Flamer/Power fist, 3
 Storm Bolter/Power fist (I need some more Terminators I know. I want to add a second
 Assualt Cannon, and some more lightning claws, as well as Cyclone Missile Launchers)

 -1 Dreadnought - Twinlinked Autocannons, Powerfist with Storm Bolter
 

 Fast Attack 
 -10 Man Assualt Squad with Vet Sargent - 2 Plasma Pistols, Vet Sargent(stubborn) with
 Plasma Pistol

 -2 Ravenwing Attack bikes with Multi-Meltas

 -3 Man Ravenwing Bike Squad - Melta Gun, Flamer

 -1 Ravenwing Landspeeder - Heavy Bolter
 

 Heavy Support
 -2 Whirlwinds

 -1 Landraider Crusader

 -8 Man Devastator Squad - 4 Bolters, 2 Lascannons, 2 Missile Launchers

 -1 Predator Annhilator - Side Sponson Lascannons
 

 Well that is everything I own. I pick and choose what I want to play, and am not sure what
 the total points are, but I believe I am 1500+ depending on what the mission parameters are.
 All the games I play are 1000 point battles at the local GW store, which makes most of my
 choices limited points wise. Any thoughts on what I have though as to what I could add to
 make it better, or something to look at changing let me know. Also was wondering what you
 thought of Smoke Launchers, and extra armour. I most often don't use it with little problems,
 but I wonder if it could be worth it.
 

 -Glorfindel_888 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           a couple of thoughts (rivendell style, i guess ; ) . (1 Replies). bodycount[]. 2/28/2002 10:18
 (2/28/2002 12:50) 
 welcome glorfindel_888,

 hope you didn't get bored with reading the army composition concept post again :))) thanks
 for your bump whan it was originally posted.

 >> Well here is a listing of everything I have. Normally don't have a set list I used, but make it
 up choosing from the listing below, so I know I have more heavy support, or fast attack or
 etc. then I am allowed. Any advice or suggestions as to what to add though. I am thinking of
 making an all Ravenwing army next(expensive though OUCH)

 that is a great collection indeed. and i see that you like to play WYSIWYG. not exactly my
 point of you, but you sure thing have an impressive array of minis.

 >> HQ 

 i presume you do have the ezekiel model? IMHO 'zeke mini is by far the best in the whole
 SM range.

 >> I have to say that I never field the command squad as I find it too expensive 98% of the
 time and not as effective as a standard tactical squad. I know you don't need to take the extra
 options, but what is the point of the squad if you don't.

 funny you should say that. to the contrary, i always preach the use of cmd squads in battle. for
 one thing - they offer protection to your ICs, count as a single HQ choice (saving those
 valuable troops and fast attack choices for other use) and (quite often overlooked IMHO) if
 you should end up in reserves you guarantee that your IC and his squad arrive at the same
 time.

 since my ICs are my best HtH specialists i consider giving them a cmd squad somewhat of a
 necessity. and considering the point cost - you get 3 free character upgrades - give each a bolt
 pistol and CCW (all at the great cost of 6 pts ;) and take a basic sarge (same combo) and
 together with your IC that is the most effective basic HtH unit you can think of. and at a very
 favorable price i might add. who needs Ld9 if a Ld10 grand master leads the way ? paying
 just 15 points per cmd squad trooper AND having access to character upgrades is IMHO a
 great asset that should be used as often as possible.

 >> Troops
 >> -10 Man Scout Squad - 8 Sniper Rifles, 1 Heavy Bolter, Standard Sargent with Bolt
 Pistol, and CC weapon

 accuracy seems to be your middle name. or is it "no you have to test for pinning" :)))

 >> -1 Landraider Crusader

 how did you paint it? since we are allowed just one *sigh* crusader i thought it fitting to paint
 it white - deathwing style.

 >> Any thoughts on what I have though as to what I could add to make it better, or something
 to look at changing let me know. 

 ever thought of a shooty dread? also i would endulge (good word, that ;) myself with several
 more tac squads (6 to 8 men strong) and a corresponding number of missile lauchers or other
 heavy weaons you like, for supporting fire purposes.

 >> Also was wondering what you thought of Smoke Launchers, and extra armour. I most
 often don't use it with little problems, but I wonder if it could be worth it.

 case study A): object - a rhino - never leave without extra armor and smokers unless you like
 your troops end up strolling the battlefield ("oh, look that's the squad we where supposed to
 charge, there on the far left, and to my right, in that smoking crater is whatever's left from our
 rhino" ;).

 case study B): object - a fire platform - as a rule of thumb, never take smokers as you
 WANT to shoot every turn. exception: vindicator that needs to roll into position. smokers
 welcome.

 case study C): object - troop carring vehicle - as a rule of thumb, always take extra armmor -
 there is nothing more frustrating than being unable to disembark because your crew is stunned.
 

 hope that helps. unless you find that you can really get along without it, but in that case you
 better let us all know how you do that :)))

 happy inserting command squads into your line-ups,

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               RE: a couple of thoughts (rivendell style, i guess ; ) . (0 Replies). Glorfindel_888[]. 2/28/2002
 12:50 (2/28/2002 12:50) 
 Well to answer your crusader question I have mine painted the Green right now. I think it
 depends on who you talk to, but in the conversations I have had with versious people the
 choice of painting it white or green is more of a personal one then a required one. The
 Terminators painted their armour white, but I have never heard any mention of the vehicles.
 So I don't think it matters. Mine is green as I don't have enough troops yet for an all
 Deathwing army. 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       Termie Sgt. Question . (6 Replies). littlepurplemonkey[]. 2/28/2002 10:11 (3/1/2002 1:25) 
 Can DW Terminator sergeants take lightning claws or thunder hammers and storm shields?
 I know that sergeants aren't usually allowed to take upgrades, but surely as the points are not
 different this is not an 'upgrade' in the same sense as a plasma gun is for a tac squad?
 After all if you're aiming for a combat orientated DW squad it might make more sense to
 equip him with LC/TH +SS. depending on style of play of course.
 Thanks in advance. 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           RE: Termie Sgt. Question . (0 Replies). aurion[]. 2/28/2002 10:47 (2/28/2002 10:47) 
 >> Can DW Terminator sergeants take lightning claws or thunder hammers and storm
 shields?

 On pg. 7 of the Dark Angel codex it states the Deathwing Sgts. may take equipment from the
 armory. So, yes, they can take whatever weapon combo they want. You just have to pay the
 points for them (unlike the regular terms, where the LC or TH/SS are free upgrades).

 Aurion Shidhe 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           Termie Sgt. Answer . (0 Replies). bodycount[]. 2/28/2002 10:46 (2/28/2002 10:46) 
 >> Can DW Terminator sergeants take lightning claws or thunder hammers and storm
 shields?
 >> I know that sergeants aren't usually allowed to take upgrades, but surely as the points are
 not different this is not an 'upgrade' in the same sense as a plasma gun is for a tac squad?

 yes, you can. DA codex states (p.7):

 "character: the sargeant may have additional equipment from the dark angels armory"

 remember that this is a member of the deathwing (an "invisible" character so to speak). so
 there you go - equip him as you like.
 but remember about the point cost - for your basic 47 points you already have a storm bolter
 and a power weapon. 

 good hunting,

 bodycount
 si vis pacem parra bellum 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           Termie Sgt. answer . (0 Replies). erdagon[]. 2/28/2002 11:01 (2/28/2002 11:01) 
 >> Can DW Terminator sergeants take lightning claws or thunder hammers and storm
 shields?
 >> I know that sergeants aren't usually allowed to take upgrades, but surely as the points are
 not different this is not an 'upgrade' in the same sense as a plasma gun is for a tac squad?
 >> After all if you're aiming for a combat orientated DW squad it might make more sense to
 equip him with LC/TH +SS. depending on style of play of course.
 >> Thanks in advance.

 Well , one fact that many Sm players seems to overlook is the fact that the Termie Sarge is a
 Vet Sarge and so can be equipped with Lighting claws or a ThunderHammer and Storm
 shield since those weapons are in the Armoury list . But unlike a normal marine , he has to pay
 the points stated in the Armoury instead of the squad upgrade pts . And since he's a Vet , he
 can choose wargear too .

 Erdagon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander
 HBK 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           RE: Termie Sgt. Question . (2 Replies). Glorfindel_888[]. 2/28/2002 13:44 (3/1/2002 1:25) 
 Well I am not sure about Thunderhammer/Storm Shield Combos, but I thought it said that any
 model may upgrade to 2 lightning claws for free. Now I don't have my codex here with me,
 but if this is the case then is this not like the debate over wether or not the Sargent in a scout
 squad could have a sniper rifle? I believe the final resolution was yes the sargent could have a
 sniper rifle, which would mean the Deathwing Sargent should be able to replace his storm
 bolter with the lightning claws for free without having to buy them. You you might say he his a
 veteren sargent, but at no point do you have to pay for this upgrade, so why would he not be
 able to take the same options as the rest of the squad. His stats are not different in any way. If
 someone has the codex handy check it out and see. I could be wrong on this though. Besides
 this will bump the thread again =)
 

 >> Can DW Terminator sergeants take lightning claws or thunder hammers and storm
 shields?
 >> I know that sergeants aren't usually allowed to take upgrades, but surely as the points are
 not different this is not an 'upgrade' in the same sense as a plasma gun is for a tac squad?
 >> After all if you're aiming for a combat orientated DW squad it might make more sense to
 equip him with LC/TH +SS. depending on style of play of course.
 >> Thanks in advance. 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               Don't know how official this is but ...... . (1 Replies). erdagon[]. 2/28/2002 14:47 (3/1/2002 1:25) 
 >> Well I am not sure about Thunderhammer/Storm Shield Combos, but I thought it said that
 any model may upgrade to 2 lightning claws for free. Now I don't have my codex here with
 me, but if this is the case then is this not like the debate over wether or not the Sargent in a
 scout squad could have a sniper rifle? I believe the final resolution was yes the sargent could
 have a sniper rifle, which would mean the Deathwing Sargent should be able to replace his
 storm bolter with the lightning claws for free without having to buy them. You you might say he
 his a veteren sargent, but at no point do you have to pay for this upgrade, so why would he
 not be able to take the same options as the rest of the squad. His stats are not different in any
 way. If someone has the codex handy check it out and see. I could be wrong on this though.
 Besides this will bump the thread again =)
 

 I have the Interactive army list builder , and according to that program you'll have to pay for
 the equipment like any other Vet Sarge has to pay for extra equipment . Again , I don't know
 how official this product is , but since it's a GW released product I think it's very official , but
 then again , that's my point of view here . Now if a GW member could answer that one ......
 Oh , and also according to the IAL , you can't give the scout Sarge a sniper , just to let you
 know .
 

 Erdagon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                   RE: Don't know how official this is but ...... . (0 Replies). Glorfindel_888[]. 3/1/2002 1:25
 (3/1/2002 1:25) 
 Yup I was wrong. I read the rules and it says that the normal squad members can, but the
 sargent still has to buy them. that kind of sucks. 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       2000 Ravenwing army list . (1 Replies). danimalicious[]. 3/1/2002 2:05 (3/8/2002 22:58) 
 Well, here's a stab at a Ravenwing army list. I don't think we've seen any yet, so let's see how
 this one stands up to ya'lls criticisms.

 HQ:
 Grand Master of the Ravenwing (255)
 Ravenwing Command squad (240)
 -Ravenwing Landspeeder w/ Heavy Bolter, Assault Cannon x3
 

 Troops:
 Ravenwing Bike squad (227)
 -Ravenwing Bikes x4
 -Plasma Gun x2
 -Ravenwing Attack Bike w/ Heavy Bolter

 Ravenwing Bike squad (227)
 -Ravenwing Bikes x4
 -Plasma Gun x2
 -Ravenwing Attack Bike w/ Heavy Bolter

 Ravenwing Bike squad (196)
 -Ravenwing Bikes x4 
 -Vet Sgt. w/ Power Weapon
 -Flamer x2

 Ravenwing Bike squad (280)
 -Ravenwing Bikes x4
 -Vet Sgt. w/ Power Weapon
 -Meltaguns x2
 -Ravenwing Attack Bike w/ Multimelta

 Fast Attack:
 Ravenwing Landspeeder squad (160)
 -Ravenwing Landspeeder w/ Heavy Bolter, Assault Cannon x2
 

 Heavy Support:
 Ravenwing Attack Bike squad (175)
 -Ravenwing Attack Bike w/ Heavy Bolter x3

 Ravenwing Attack Bike squad (210)
 -Ravenwing Attack Bike w/ Multimelta x3
 

 TOTAL: 1970 points

 I might move the command squad to a Fast Attack choice so that the Grand Master can fight
 as an IC. Um, general tactics. My first two Bike squads can lay down a decent amount of
 supporting fire, and ought to be able to take care of grunts and light vehicles. I have one that is
 more assault oriented, and I would use that after the first two sweep past, in order to clean up
 the leftovers. Also, there's the Attack Bike squad for anti-tanks/terminators/carnifi, and one
 for anti-troops, and ought to be used accordingly. Also, land speeders would be used to
 soften up enemy squads before the bikes come in. 

 I have those 30 points leftover - dunno if it's worth it to give the vet sgt.s any extra wargear.
 I've never played a Ravenwing army, so for those of you who have, tell me what you think. 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           RE: 2000 Ravenwing army list . (0 Replies). irskin[]. 3/8/2002 22:58 (3/8/2002 22:58) 
 >> Well, here's a stab at a Ravenwing army list. I don't think we've seen any yet, so let's see
 how this one stands up to ya'lls criticisms.
 >> 
 >> HQ:
 >> Grand Master of the Ravenwing (255)
 >> Ravenwing Command squad (240)
 >> -Ravenwing Landspeeder w/ Heavy Bolter, Assault Cannon x3
 >> 
 ***NP here
 >> 
 >> Troops:
 >> Ravenwing Bike squad (227)
 >> -Ravenwing Bikes x4
 >> -Plasma Gun x2
 >> -Ravenwing Attack Bike w/ Heavy Bolter
 >> 
 >> Ravenwing Bike squad (227)
 >> -Ravenwing Bikes x4
 >> -Plasma Gun x2
 >> -Ravenwing Attack Bike w/ Heavy Bolter
 >> 
 ***As far as my thinking and total lack of actual experience with a RW army goes, plasma
 guns aren't really worth it, as you probably won't be able to make full use of their rate of fire
 advantage over meltaguns. Sure they're 4 points cheaper, but you can't instant kill anything
 over S3, and you lose a lot of AT capability.

 >> Ravenwing Bike squad (196)
 >> -Ravenwing Bikes x4 
 >> -Vet Sgt. w/ Power Weapon
 >> -Flamer x2
 >> 
 >> Ravenwing Bike squad (280)
 >> -Ravenwing Bikes x4
 >> -Vet Sgt. w/ Power Weapon
 >> -Meltaguns x2
 >> -Ravenwing Attack Bike w/ Multimelta
 >> 
 >> Fast Attack:
 >> Ravenwing Landspeeder squad (160)
 >> -Ravenwing Landspeeder w/ Heavy Bolter, Assault Cannon x2
 >> 
 >> 
 >> Heavy Support:
 >> Ravenwing Attack Bike squad (175)
 >> -Ravenwing Attack Bike w/ Heavy Bolter x3
 >> 
 >> Ravenwing Attack Bike squad (210)
 >> -Ravenwing Attack Bike w/ Multimelta x3
 >> 
 >> 
 IMHO, I'd replace one of the Attack Bike squads with 'Speeders. They're more survivable
 and more mobile, for the same price. Yes you lose the combat capabilities, but for a
 fire-support squad this shouldn't matter.

 >> TOTAL: 1970 points
 >> 
 >> I might move the command squad to a Fast Attack choice so that the Grand Master can
 fight as an IC. Um, general tactics. My first two Bike squads can lay down a decent amount
 of supporting fire, and ought to be able to take care of grunts and light vehicles. I have one
 that is more assault oriented, and I would use that after the first two sweep past, in order to
 clean up the leftovers. Also, there's the Attack Bike squad for anti-tanks/terminators/carnifi,
 and one for anti-troops, and ought to be used accordingly. Also, land speeders would be used
 to soften up enemy squads before the bikes come in. 
 >> 
 >> I have those 30 points leftover - dunno if it's worth it to give the vet sgt.s any extra
 wargear. I've never played a Ravenwing army, so for those of you who have, tell me what you
 think.

 Overall very good, this seems to accord with what other wisdom I've read. Yet again
 however, I stress I have no actuall experience with RW, just an overactive imagination with an
 addiction to destructive stuff and tactical thought. I leave it to the experts for more useful
 advice. Whatever the case though, good hunting!

 Irskin
 'e tenebrae lux' 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       Ravenwing characters . (2 Replies). danimalicious[]. 3/1/2002 2:06 (3/1/2002 11:37) 
 >> Hello, could you Dark Angels guys give me some general tactical advice and force
 composition advice please.
 >> Thanks. 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           RE: Ravenwing characters . (1 Replies). danimalicious[]. 3/1/2002 2:24 (3/1/2002 11:37) 
 consarnit, stupid enter button... not doing what I want it to... grrr...

 At any rate, what I meant to say in the previous post was that as I was putting together that
 Ravenwing army list, I thought about including other characters to be in the army. People,
 after all, have found success with Chaplains on bikes. Furthermore, like the other companies
 in the chapter, the Ravenwing does include chaplains. However, if I were to take a chaplain in
 my Ravenwing army, he wouldn't be a Ravenwing biker. He'd still have the standard bike
 rules, even though he is a member of the Ravenwing. If I understand the new rules correctly,
 we can take a Bike squad as a command HQ, and give it the normal upgrades, like
 apothecaries and standard bearers (and come to think of it, imagine using the Standard of
 Fortitude on another bike squad...), but these characters would still have the Ravenwing
 special rules, too. But would the Master have these rules, too? Do we just get the invulnerable
 save as a freebie, or sorts? Or is he just a crap driver while the rest of his squad are all
 talented drivers? And I know that if I wanted to take a (Grand) Master in a landspeeder, it
 would *have* to be the Grand Master as described in the back. Oh well, can't have all the
 options I'd like.

 At any rate, what I would propose - and no, I don't mean to send this to GW, but just
 amongst my friends - is to allow a chaplain (or any other character in the army, for that matter)
 to upgrade to a Ravenwing bike for the cost of +25 points. that's the cost to go from a normal
 Space Marine, to a Ravenwing Biker. Though, for Chaos, it costs +45 to put a character on a
 bike, even though Chaos SM Bikers also cost 40 points. I will admit that I don't know how
 much it costs to upgrade a character normally to a Biker for a standard SM army. 

 So, any other ideas as to how to whip up a Ravenwing Chaplain, or Librarian? Or a "normal"
 Ravenwing Master on a bike, too? How do we merge the Ravenwing rules - which the
 characters for a Ravenwing army should have - with point costs? I know it's a side-project of
 an army, and I can't expect the full treatment from GW. But that's where we come in - to fill in
 the rest. 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               Good news for ya . . (0 Replies). erdagon[]. 3/1/2002 11:37 (3/1/2002 11:37) 
 >> And I know that if I wanted to take a (Grand) Master in a landspeeder, it would *have*
 to be the Grand Master as described in the back. Oh well, can't have all the options I'd like.

 A little while ago GW in a Chapter aproved article it had the (G)MOTRW on a bike . It's in
 the WD of July 2001 , the one with Inquisitor Tirius on the cover . But don't be dissapointed
 when you see the rules for the RavenSword printed there .
 

 Erdagon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander
 HBK 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       Thanks for all your responses! . (0 Replies). littlepurplemonkey[]. 3/1/2002 13:45 (3/1/2002 13:45) 
 Thanks for all your responses, Bodycount, Erdagon, Aurion, and all the others who have
 contributed to this thread in any way.

 Thanks, and happy gaming.
 Oh, and BUMP!
 :) 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       Is this too cheesy? Rate the cheese . (3 Replies). Glorfindel_888[]. 3/2/2002 15:19 (3/3/2002 12:12) 
 Well in part of keeping the thread alive =) I have developed something that might be
 considered cheese. I need some help to rate this. In fact I think it might be fun to play as it is
 an assualt Dark Angels army. Just for the reaction value of a traditionally shooty army
 assualting. Any ways here it is...

 HQ Grandmaster - Sword of Secrets, Plasma Pistol, Jump Pack, Iron Halo, Frag Grenades -
 181 Points

 HQ Librarian - Bolt Pistol, Power Weapon, Smite Power Command Squad in Rhino with - 5
 man Tactical squad with Meltagun, Apothecary Marine with Plasma Pistol, Close Combat
 Weapon, and Jump pack so he is detached fromt he squad and assigned to the assault
 marines(see below), Standard Bearer with Plasma Pistol, Tech marine with Plasma Pistol,
 Close Combat weapon, and Servo arm, sargetn with bolt pistol, and close combat weapon -
 378 Points

 Troops - 6 man scout squad with 4 sniper rifles, heavy bolter, and sargent with bolt pistol and
 close combat weapon - 113 Points

 Troops - 5 man Tactical squad with Plasma Cannon - 90 Points

 Fast Attack - 9 man including 2 plasma pistols - 235 Points. Both the Grandmaster, and the
 apothecary would join this squad.

 Total 997 points for use in a 1000 point game.

 Any comments or suggestions would help. This is just a thought that was running through my
 head as I was modeling some figures up. Most of the armies I run up against are marines of
 one kind or another, followed by eldar, and then the odd bug army. 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           RE: Is this too cheesy? Rate the cheese . (2 Replies). Glorfindel_888[]. 3/2/2002 18:53 (3/3/2002
 12:12) 
 >> Well in part of keeping the thread alive =) I have developed something that might be
 considered cheese. I need some help to rate this. In fact I think it might be fun to play as it is
 an assualt Dark Angels army. Just for the reaction value of a traditionally shooty army
 assualting. Any ways here it is...
 >> 
 >> HQ Grandmaster - Sword of Secrets, Plasma Pistol, Jump Pack, Iron Halo, Frag
 Grenades - 181 Points
 >> 
 >> HQ Librarian - Bolt Pistol, Power Weapon, Smite Power Command Squad in Rhino with
 - 5 man Tactical squad with Meltagun, Apothecary Marine with Plasma Pistol, Close Combat
 Weapon, and Jump pack so he is detached fromt he squad and assigned to the assault
 marines(see below), Standard Bearer with Plasma Pistol, Tech marine with Plasma Pistol,
 Close Combat weapon, and Servo arm, sargetn with bolt pistol, and close combat weapon -
 378 Points
 >> 
 >> Troops - 6 man scout squad with 4 sniper rifles, heavy bolter, and sargent with bolt pistol
 and close combat weapon - 113 Points
 >> 
 >> Troops - 5 man Tactical squad with Plasma Cannon - 90 Points
 >> 
 >> Fast Attack - 9 man including 2 plasma pistols - 235 Points. Both the Grandmaster, and
 the apothecary would join this squad.
 >> 
 >> Total 997 points for use in a 1000 point game.
 >> 
 >> Any comments or suggestions would help. This is just a thought that was running through
 my head as I was modeling some figures up. Most of the armies I run up against are marines
 of one kind or another, followed by eldar, and then the odd bug army.

 Just a note so people don't think I play these type all the time, as I am normally very conscious
 of how cheesy my army is. This here as over half the points going into the HQ section seemes
 high to me. Probably never would field this, but still would like to know what other people
 think. 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               Cheesy ? I thought you said that cheese doesn't excist . :p . (1 Replies). erdagon[]. 3/3/2002
 5:31 (3/3/2002 12:12) 
 >> >> HQ Grandmaster - Sword of Secrets, Plasma Pistol, Jump Pack, Iron Halo, Frag
 Grenades - 181 Points

 Geared up to join the assault Squad I see . :) Nice and leathal

 >> >> HQ Librarian - Bolt Pistol, Power Weapon, Smite Power Command Squad in Rhino
 with - 5 man Tactical squad with Meltagun, Apothecary Marine with Plasma Pistol, Close
 Combat Weapon, and Jump pack so he is detached fromt he squad and assigned to the
 assault marines(see below), Standard Bearer with Plasma Pistol, Tech marine with Plasma
 Pistol, Close Combat weapon, and Servo arm, sargetn with bolt pistol, and close combat
 weapon - 378 Points

 If you want , you could give them all powerweapons and let the real cries for cheese begin
 then . :)

 >> >> Troops - 6 man scout squad with 4 sniper rifles, heavy bolter, and sargent with bolt
 pistol and close combat weapon - 113 Points

 Nice shooting unit .

 >> >> Troops - 5 man Tactical squad with Plasma Cannon - 90 Points

 Cheap and deadly .

 >> >> Fast Attack - 9 man including 2 plasma pistols - 235 Points. Both the Grandmaster,
 and the apothecary would join this squad.

 Seems like those are gonna cause alot of damage , especialy with the GM and the Ap
 attached to them .

 >> >> Total 997 points for use in a 1000 point game.
 >> >> 
 >> >> Any comments or suggestions would help. This is just a thought that was running
 through my head as I was modeling some figures up. Most of the armies I run up against are
 marines of one kind or another, followed by eldar, and then the odd bug army.
 >> 
 >> Just a note so people don't think I play these type all the time, as I am normally very
 conscious of how cheesy my army is. This here as over half the points going into the HQ
 section seemes high to me. Probably never would field this, but still would like to know what
 other people think.
 

 Ah , like you stated in otherposts , Cheese doesn't exist , and like you said at the start of your
 post , a bit heavy on HQ , but I think that would be a very leathal army . Especially for in
 1000 pts battles . Try this out and let us know how many called you cheesy/beardy . :) Good
 Hunting .
 

 Erdagon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander
 HBK 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                   RE: Cheesy ? I thought you said that cheese doesn't excist . :p . (0 Replies).
 Glorfindel_888[]. 3/3/2002 12:12 (3/3/2002 12:12) 
 Ah, but I said that army cheese didn't exsist. The commander being cheesy, well yes. I mean
 none of these units by themselves are scary(except the Grandmaster, and the Command
 squad, scouts, tactical squads... (heck any Dark Angels to an opponent should be scary). But
 combined by me, makes it cheesy. I might just take it and see. I am getting tired of loosing
 games too cheesy plaers at my local shop becuase they do this kind of stuff. If I do play it and
 get called cheese I'll let you know =) 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       Anyone know a quick way to save this thread? . (3 Replies). zeusss[]. 3/3/2002 19:52 (3/5/2002 2:08) 
 It's too good to lose to the 30day drop-off...

 Chaplain Zeusss
 Blood Angel Brother in Arms
 ... and envious of the Deathwing 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           RE: Isn't it called a bump . (0 Replies). iwantmyk[]. 3/4/2002 1:05 (3/4/2002 1:05) 
 >> It's too good to lose to the 30day drop-off...
 >> 
 >> Chaplain Zeusss
 >> Blood Angel Brother in Arms
 >> ... and envious of the Deathwing 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           RE: Anyone know a quick way to save this thread? . (1 Replies). erdagon[]. 3/4/2002 3:35 (3/5/2002
 2:08) 
 It's already done so . it's on BABE's Bloodangels site . The site adress is
 http://www.dragonrealm.com/exlibrismortis/exlibrisnewbaliststactics.html .

 Scroll down and then click on Tactica Dark Angels to view this topic . It only has the list up to
 141 replies . 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               Thanks Erdagon! And Brother Edward for hosting it! (NT) . (0 Replies). zeusss[]. 3/5/2002 2:08
 (3/5/2002 2:08) 
 No Text 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       RE: DA Tactical Thread (Input please) . (1 Replies). blackbone[]. 3/4/2002 16:09 (3/5/2002 0:45) 
 Don't underestimate the power of the special characters! Many tournaments allow you to use
 them. The only ones I like are Naaman and the MotRW in his landspeeder. Here is a
 summary of the list I'm using in an RT tourney:

 HQ -

 MotRW
 command squad - 2 RW speeders with AC

 Chaplain on bike - melta bombs, purity seals, blades of reason

 Troops - 

 5 Scouts - 2 shotties
 5 Scouts - CCW/BP, frag

 8 Tactical - flamer, heavy bolter, frag, rhino
 8 Tactical - plasma, plasma cannon, rhino
 8 Tactical - lascannon

 Fast -

 5 Assault - plasma pistol, melta bombs

 Heavy -

 5 Devastators - 3 missile

 An alternative list would maximize the size of the tacs, lose the devastators and add RW
 bikers to accompany the Chaplain.

 The key to DA is maximizing their strengths and minimizing their weaknesses. Take scouts and
 small assault groups to counterattack assaults. Use LOTS of mobile tacs to screen eachother
 and move forward or capture objectives. Use RW to harass the enemy, not to all-out attack
 them.
 Scouts are the DA veteran squads.
 The MotRW is an EXCELLENT HQ choice! He picks a RW unit each round during shooting
 and that squad rerolls ALL their to-hits for a turn. Imagine the Master with Landspeeder
 command squad, a separate RW Landspeeder squad, a bike squad, and an attack bike squad
 (filling out fast attack choices) along with a few tacs in Rhinos. Each turn you move up both
 flanks with RW and the opponent will have no idea which squad will have rerolls until its too
 late.
 The Chaplain on bike is an awesome sidekick for the Master. If he is threatened before his
 chance to assault, the Master and his command squad can swing over and deal nasty
 AC-ness to their butts to bail him out.
 The master also has a really icky str 6 attack DURING THE MOVEMENT PHASE, that
 can't be counteracted or saved by armor. Yikes!

 Hope this helps!

 PS: Do us all a favor and chill on the wargear and vet sgts!
 

 >> Hello, could you Dark Angels guys give me some general tactical advice and force
 composition advice please.
 >> Thanks. 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           True , but ...... . (0 Replies). erdagon[]. 3/5/2002 0:45 (3/5/2002 0:45) 
 Well , most of the posts inhere has avoided the mention of Special Chars since they're not
 always allowed . Indeed , some of them can kick serious butt (imagine Zeke going in one
 squad with Asmo and then they assault ........) . But the main part inhere was to share tactics
 with out the aid of SC's . Anyway , thanks for your oppinion though . I have to agree that the
 MOTRW on his LandSpeeder is one mean , lean killing machine . Unfortunately not many are
 willing to see that and prefer him on a bike . I like him on his speeder since he's able to make
 flyby's and kill off opponents without them being able to strike back . Love that Ravensword .
 Good Hunting .
 

 Erdagon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander
 HBK 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       Recovered from page11 (in other words BUMP) (NT) . (1 Replies). erdagon[]. 3/6/2002 12:55 (3/7/2002
 2:34) 
 No Text 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           Ravenwing IC revisted! . (0 Replies). danimalicious[]. 3/7/2002 2:34 (3/7/2002 2:34) 
 Aha! I received the WD w/ the MotR on a bike, and so now I can return to my original
 question (and bump this bad boy back up). How can we field a Ravenwing Chaplain or
 Librarian? While we can give them bikes easily enough, we cannot give them the Ravenwing
 abilities that they deserve to have, in order to maintain equal footing with their Ravenwing
 brothers. So, here is what I propose for those of us looking to field such models in friendly
 combats. I dare not think that such a rule would ever see the light of a CA article. Without
 furhter adieu...

 We know that the Grand Master on a bike costs 140 points, and includes one bike, one
 master-crafted powersword (ie. the Ravensword) and his special abilities. Let us subtract now
 80 points for the cost of a DA Grand Master (ie. 80 points) and the cost of a master-crafted
 power weapon (ie. 30 points). That leaves us with 30 points. This is the cost, then, for a
 Ravenwing Bike. Only 5 points higher than if we used the Ravenwing Bike Squad points cost
 with a normal Space Marine. Well, now I feel better. 

 Does anyone else have ideas that might work out better, or point values that could be more
 "fair"? Though, to be honest, I think this is pretty cut and dry. But anything to stimulate debate
 and interest once again. ^_^ 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       2 army lists for review . (0 Replies). danimalicious[]. 3/8/2002 3:08 (3/8/2002 3:08) 
 Finally got the SM codex today, so I can actually put my DA codex to good use. Don't know
 why it would kill GW to include all relevant info in one codex, but I'll save such gripes for
 another thread.

 At any rate, here are two 1700 RT army lists. I took two extremes, so to speak, of how to
 use a DA army. The first is a highly mobile army, while the second uses more of the Dark
 Angel's shooting ability. There are also some rules clarifications thrown in, so if anyone can
 answer them as they come up, I would be greatly appreciative. So, here goes:

 Army One - Primus Force
 HQ: 165 points
 Interragator-Chaplain w/ Artificer Armor, Jump Pack, meltabombs, master-crafter plamsa
 pistol (165 points)

 Troops: 933 points
 Squad Alpha - 9 Tactical Marines w/ frag grenades, 1 plasma gun, 1 plasma cannon,
 Stubborn Vet Sgt w/ frag grenades, powerfist, bolt pistol; mounted in Rhino w/ extra armor,
 smoke launchers (285 points)
 Squad Beta - 9 Tactical Marines w/ frag grenades, 1 missile launcher, Stubborn Vet Sgt w/
 frag grenades, plasma pistol, CCW; mounted in Rhino w/ extra armor, smoke
 launchers(264points)
 Squad Gamma - 5 Tactical Marines and 1 Sgt. w/ frag grenades, 1 plasma gun; mounted in
 Razorback w/ Lascannon, plasma guns, extra armor (192 points)
 Squad Delta - 5 Tactical Marines and 1 Sgt. w/ frag grenades, 1 plasma gun; mounted in
 Razorback w/ Lascannon, plasma guns, extra armor (192 points)

 Fast Attack: 602 points
 Squad Epsilon - 9 Assault Marines w/ plasma pistols x2, Stubborn Vet Sgt w/ power weapon
 (295 points)
 Squad Black Claw - 4 Ravenwing Bikes w/ plasma gun x2, Ravenwing 
 ***so, I figured this cost by adding 55 points to the Bike squad, rather than 60 - this is using
 the CA updated prices for the single attack bike, as the entry for adding an attack bike to a
 squad remains unchanged - should I assume that I can add an attack bike for 55 rather than
 60 points?
 Attack Bike w/ Heavy Bolter (227)
 Ravenwing Landspeeder w/ Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter (80 points)

 TOTAL: 1700 Points

 So, there you go. Chaplain w/ the Assault Squad. Squads Alpha and Beta will set up in a
 firing position, and stay there. Squads Delta and Gamma will try and stay more mobile (ie. no
 heavy weapons), and their Razorbacks can move with them and provide some cover. The
 Ravenwing elements will soften up an enemy before the Chaplain and Squad Epsilon come in. 

 ~~~

 Army Two - Force Secundus
 HQ: 155 points
 Librarian w/ Terminator Armor, Force Weapon, Powerfist (155 points)

 Elites: 378 points
 Squad Deathstorm - 5 Deathwing Terminators: Sgt w/ Power Sword/Storm Bolter, Marine
 w/ Lightning Claw pair x2, Marine w/ Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield, Marine w/ Assault
 Cannon/Chainfist (258 points)
 Brother Lucius - Dreadnought w/ Missle Launcher, twin-linked Autocannon (120 points)

 Troops: 587 Points
 Squad Alpha - 9 Tactical Marines w/ frag grenades, missile launcher, plasma gun, stubborn
 Vet Sgt w/ bolt pistol, CCW (196 points)
 Squad Beta - 9 Tactical Marines w/ frag grenades, missile launcher, plasma gun, stubborn Vet
 Sgt w/ bolt pistol, CCW (196 points)
 Squad Gamma - 9 Tactical Marines w/ frag grenades, plasma cannon, stubborn Vet Sgt w/
 bolt pistol, CCW (195 points)

 Fast Attack: 196 points
 Squad Delta - 9 Assault Marines w/ plasma pistol x2, stubborn Vet Sgt w/ power sword, bolt
 pistol; squad w/o jump packs (196 points)

 Heavy Support: 378 points
 Land Raider Crusader (255 points)
 *** As I understand it, Assault squads have no transport options, other than their jump
 packs. However, a Land Raider or Crusader can transport any squad, so long as it fits
 (numbers wise). So, what I would like is to put hte assault squad in the Crusader. Is there a
 direct ruling against putting a jump pack-less Assault Squad in a Land Raider or variant
 thereof?
 Vindicator w/ smoke launchers (123 points)

 TOTAL: 1694 Points

 While the first army reall took it to the opponent, it's now up to the enemy to come to me. I
 would like to use the Terminators and Librarian (with Smite, by the way) to teleport into battle
 after Squad Delta smashes into somewhere nice w/ the Crusader. Otherwise, find some good
 firing positions, and let loose. IG armies may prove difficult, due to their long range weaponry,
 and my lack of assault capabilities, but i think I could take them anyway. They're jsut "normal"
 humans, after all. At any rate, reviews/comments/suggestions welcomed. 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       Aaaah! What's that? It's a-a-a.... *Bump* . (0 Replies). Drazden[]. 3/8/2002 10:25 (3/8/2002 10:25) 
 >> Hello, could you Dark Angels guys give me some general tactical advice and force
 composition advice please.
 >> Thanks. 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       Could someone plz review my 2 lists . (0 Replies). thomo[]. 3/8/2002 20:37 (3/8/2002 20:37) 
 There is a tournament coming up soon at my local gaming club. This will be my first one and i
 would like some advice on what i should use. Ive done up 2 seperate lists (1500pts each) and
 would appreciate feedback.

 List 1.

 Grand Master -150
 Sword of Secrets, Storm Bolter, Iron Halo

 Deathwing Termies (5) - 245
 Hvy Flamer, Pwr fists, Storm Bolters

 Tac Squad (9) - 208
 Flamer, Bolters, Vet Sarge w CCW
 Rhino - smoke launchers, extra armour

 Tac Squad (10) - 171
 Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun, Bolters

 Tac Squad (10) - 166
 Missile Launcher, Plasma Gun, Bolters

 Tac Squad (10) - 155
 Hvy Bolter

 Speeder - 50
 Hvy Bolter

 Speeder - 50
 Hvy Bolter

 Predator Annihilator - 145
 Lascannons

 Dev Squad (5) - 155
 4 Missile Launchers

 Total - 1500

 List 2:

 Grand Master - 150
 Storm Bolter, S o S, Iron Halo

 Deathwing Termies (5) - 245
 Hvy Flamer, Pwr fists, Storm Bolters

 Tac Squad (10) - 171
 Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun, Bolters

 Tac Squad (10) - 166
 Missile Launcher, Plasma Gun, Bolters

 Tac Squad (10) - 155
 Hvy Bolter

 Assault Squad (9) - 255
 2 Plasma Pistols, Vet Sarge - stubborn

 Bike Squad (3) - 108
 Flamer

 Speeders (2) - 100
 Hvy Bolter

 Predator Annihilator - 150
 Lascannons, Extra Armour

 Total - 1495

 What do you think? 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       Here's what I've got... . (0 Replies). irskin[]. 3/8/2002 20:44 (3/8/2002 20:44) 
 I've been playing our great tenebrous chapter for nearly two years now (and its still the only
 army I play due to both funding/time constraints and fanatical loyalty), but my army mini's
 selection is still a tad limited (see above). Anyway here's everything I have, comments on what
 I should get next would be greatly appreciated (and the bump back to the first page of course
 =))

 HQ
 Grand Master Callistus - SoS, Storm Bolter, Terminator Armour

 Interrogator Chaplain Hexameron - Basic kit, bolt pistol, frags (the model with the 4-sided
 Crozius)

 Librarian Epistolery Epiphanius - Force Sword, BP, etc (the Ezekiel model, and I
 wholeheartedly agree with whoever it was that said he's the best mini in the SM range!)

 Elites
 7 DW Terminators - Heavy Flamer, AC with Chainfist, Sergeant, 4 normal (1 other with
 Chainfist)

 Honoured Ancestor Azeraal in the Dreadnought Vindexus - TL Lascannons, Missile
 Launcher/Deathfist w SB (ahh, the wonders of sticky tac for intergangeable bitz!)

 Troops
 Something on the order of 21 brother Marines inc. 1 each melta, flamer, plasma gun, missile
 launcher, 2 sergeants with BP/CCW, 1 converted Veteran Sergeant with power sword and
 BP, organized and swapped around with the devastators as needed (I haven't gotten 'round to
 trying a command squad yet - not enough marines to spare yet as you can see! ;)

 Transport
 1 Razorback w TL Lascannons (I plan to convert a plug-in top for this so I can use it as a
 Rhino if needed)

 Fast Attack
 3 Ravenwing Bikes (just the RW boxed set)
 Heavy Support
 2 Devastator Boxed Sets
 

 Now I know that this needs A LOT of work, especially more troops and some more vehicles,
 I just dont get much time/spare $$ to work on it.

 So far I've been pretty successful with it, only 2 losses and a draw out of 8 or 9 games (I also
 dont get to play as often as I'd like), and I've got good excuses for both losses ( #1- i was
 playing 1000 pts on a 2'x4' coffee table and my devs got butchered turn 1 as a result, #2-my
 fried added VERY BADLY on his quickly-scribbled army list and I later realized I'd been
 playing 1200 vs 1000 ultras vs DA!!-rematch pending ;)

 My tactics are still evolving from basic 'do what looks right this turn' beginner stuff, but they
 seem to be working thus far, despite my atrocious dice-rolling.

 Finally, THANK YOU x10^10000 to all you fellow Angels for spreading your accumulated
 wisdom, it's greatly appreciated and will be going to good use.

 'e tenebrae lux'

 Irskin 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       Have a BUMP and a question on the top! . (2 Replies). irskin[]. 3/8/2002 23:36 (3/9/2002 5:07) 
 Let's keep this thread alive brother Angels! And thank you AGAIN to BABE for saving most
 of it! Woe to the foes of the Angels of Death!

 Anyway, do any of you wise Grand Masters and Interrogators (looking at you bodycount,
 erdagon...) have any comments on the idea of using an all-Plasma Cannon dev squad? I
 haven't seen one in any of the lists thus far posted, but I'm the sort who likes everything in
 large ammounts and strong themes, so for an anti-chaos (or loyal marine) army, or perhaps
 even eldar or something else, I truly like this idea (especially with a techmarine to keep them
 nice and un-toasty). Comments?

 'e tenebrae lux' 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           Ah , Plasma death . (0 Replies). erdagon[]. 3/9/2002 1:06 (3/9/2002 1:06) 
 >> Anyway, do any of you wise Grand Masters and Interrogators (looking at you bodycount,
 erdagon...) have any comments on the idea of using an all-Plasma Cannon dev squad? I
 haven't seen one in any of the lists thus far posted, but I'm the sort who likes everything in
 large ammounts and strong themes, so for an anti-chaos (or loyal marine) army, or perhaps
 even eldar or something else, I truly like this idea (especially with a techmarine to keep them
 nice and un-toasty). Comments?

 Well , if you have the models for it , why not ? Indeed , the plasma cannon is a powerfull
 weapon but it can be deadly to yourself too . But then again , adding that tech marine to that
 squad is a good way to solving that problem . And perhaps you can add a dread with a PC
 too to make it more plasma fun . Try out and let us know how it went . And yes , it should be
 very very usefull and deadly against Eldar since PC's are able to kill their characters in one go
 . Good Hunting .
 

 Erdagon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander
 HBK

 "Glory to the Angels of Death" 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           blast 'em ! : ) . (0 Replies). bodycount[]. 3/9/2002 5:07 (3/9/2002 5:07) 
 welcome irskin,

 so good to see someone who shares my unconditional love for our chapter. and i believe it
 was my writing about 'zeke being the best mini in SM range - glad to hear people agree on
 that. ; )

 >> Anyway, do any of you wise Grand Masters and Interrogators (looking at you bodycount,
 erdagon...) have any comments on the idea of using an all-Plasma Cannon dev squad? I
 haven't seen one in any of the lists thus far posted, but I'm the sort who likes everything in
 large ammounts and strong themes, so for an anti-chaos (or loyal marine) army, or perhaps
 even eldar or something else, I truly like this idea (especially with a techmarine to keep them
 nice and un-toasty). Comments?

 erdagon gave you as good an answer as i possibly could. as usual a great job on his part. also,
 your pointing out the need to include techmarine in such a squad was a very good observation.
 

 so let me delve into some other "fine points" of fieling all plasma dev squad. the first thing to
 consider is the point cost. 200 for plasma cannons, say 30 for "ablative" marines : ) and then
 optionally a techmarine w/signum and/or a transport. all in all i wouldn't recommend in games
 of less than 2000 points.

 IMHO i'd use this unit exclusively versus marines - and asault oriented at that. eldar on the
 other hand have too great speed advantage and too many move&shoot weapons. i'm afraid
 that the devs with their 36" range would too quickly be outmanouvered. the eldar player could
 rid me of possible targets by redeploying and using cover and then direct enough fire power
 my way to eliminate the plasma threat altogether.

 the marines have less of such an ability, but would also try to supress the devs. the more
 assault oriented the marine force (SW, BA or BT or world beares) the better. and the
 templars are IMHO the ideal army to field the all-plasma devs against - they form really large
 target groups indeed. perfect for multiple plasma blasts.

 now, since i did field 4 plasma canons versus other marines hereis what i found useful. first of
 all mount them in a transport. the 36" range is a niusance and you have to start shooting as
 soon as possible (unless you know what mision you'll be playing and won't risk having these
 guys enter the table from reserves), let alone use opportunity to set up a fire base in cover.
 deploy a tac squad in front of them. this will protect them form spearhead asaults and in case
 you did't have a suitable terrain feature to set up in, it will also provide cover. remeber to keep
 them a threat to your enemy as long as possible - place your counter charging unit nearby, use
 your 48" shooters to eliminate his - if he plans to engage the devs from beyond their range
 don't let him. a fire fight must be on your terms. not too many things will stand up to so much
 plasma fire.

 good hunting,

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       Speeder Question . (4 Replies). thomo[]. 3/9/2002 5:43 (3/9/2002 10:35) 
 Just a question for all those wise Grand Masters, and other Dark Angels players - in light of
 the new rules for the Dark Angels, allowing you to have normal speeders and bikes, how
 many of you ppl still use ravenwing speeders. Myself, i use the normal ones, what do you
 think?

 Grand Master Thomo 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           all depends on the point allowance ... . (0 Replies). bodycount[]. 3/9/2002 6:35 (3/9/2002 6:35) 
 >> in light of the new rules for the Dark Angels, allowing you to have normal speeders and
 bikes, how many of you ppl still use ravenwing speeders. Myself, i use the normal ones, what
 do you think?

 welcome grand master thomo,

 to me the diference between RW and regular land speeders is mainly ijn point cost which
 reflects additional abilities of the RW. you want something beter than the averag speeder - lay
 down the points kind of relation.

 since i find that the speeders' main diadvantage is being vulnerable to enemy fire (and there is a
 risk of losing them while going over rough terrain) i'm willing to spend the extra points on RW.
 re-rolling dificult terrain tests is a great insurance policy, while the 6+ save is a nice addition.
 now that they have been made cheaper, and the new rule states that they can have either a hvy
 bolter or multi-melta(and otional asault cannon upgrade for both variants) i field them even
 more often.

 the regular speeders IMHO could be useful if you are strung out on points or aim at a
 particularly numerous army. but i'd rather pay more for beter quality - this way i enure the
 units will have a beter chance to perform as i want them to. then of oures there is the typhoon
 variant. if you want to utilse it you have to pick regular speeders.

 it's a similar story with bikes. with one major difference. IMHO the ability to re-roll failed
 diffilt terain tests comes to the fore here, as you'd probably want your bikes to keep as mobile
 as possible, laying down one volley of fire after another. there you often won't have a chance
 to pick which way you go, and be forced to dash throgh all sorts of ruble. that re-roll is
 obligatory then.

 the one area in which i'd rather settle for a regular model instead of RW would probably be
 attack bikes selected as separtae choices and acting as tank huntes (multi-melta). they are
 usually in for a suicide run (a LR or leman russ for an attack bike ound soooo fine wth me ; )
 so i don't won't them to be all that expensive. this does not always work but is guaranteed to
 scre the frag out o your opponents (is that a melta on your bike coming this way ?! ; ))).

 oh, and a question. how many of you noble brothers keep an attack bikes w/ multi melta
 hidden behind an advancning rhinos? i found it quite useful.

 good hunting,

 bodycount
 i vis pacem para bellum 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           Ah , the RavenWing . (0 Replies). erdagon[]. 3/9/2002 8:39 (3/9/2002 8:39) 
 Well , I have to agree with BodyCount on what he said . I prefer the RW for two things , first
 the 6+ save and second , fluffwise .plus , those nice black painted bikes and speeders gives
 you a little more colour variation in your army . :) Also , don't forget that for those 5pts more
 you pay you get a 6+save , even for the Speeders . And this makes the RW unique in a SM
 army , after all , only the RW speeders get a 6+ save . Also , with the RW you have the
 possibility to field up to 3 Tornado's in one squadron . That's alot of firepower combined in 1
 squadron . but then again , like BC stated , if you want to use a Typhoon , then you have to
 use a normal one . (not that that is going to stop me to try out one ) . Anyway , hope this
 helped . Good Hunting .
 

 Erdagon Faldan
 Dark Angels commander
 HBK

 "Glory to the Angels of Death" 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           RE: Speeder Question . (1 Replies). littlepurplemonkey[]. 3/9/2002 9:01 (3/9/2002 10:35) 
 Nice to see this thread still going :)
 I think that bodycount pretty much covered your question, and once again thanks to him and
 erdagon (and the rest of you) for your great tactical contribution to this thread.
 Personally I always use the RW variants if only because I find that re-roll terrain test so useful.
 There has been many a time when my bikes have had to speed through a wood.... And I also
 seem to have a fair amount of luck with that jink roll too (fingers crossed). still I suppose it's a
 matter of personal preference and tactics. 

 Good luck and happy gaming! 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               thank YOU first of all ... . (0 Replies). bodycount[]. 3/9/2002 10:35 (3/9/2002 10:35) 
 >> Nice to see this thread still going :)
 >> thanks to him and erdagon (and the rest of you) for your great tactical contribution to this
 thread.

 thank you in the first place littlepurplemonkey (boy, do i love that nick of yours : ))) for
 creating the thread. like i once said here already - we should call you littlepurplemonkey a.k.a.
 the creator ; )

 and i'll second you in thanking everyone for their input - erdagon and aurion especially - as
 well as brother edward who literally saved us : )))

 good hunting to you all,

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       A random quandry... . (6 Replies). irskin[]. 3/9/2002 9:04 (3/10/2002 4:39) 
 A quick question for Bodycount. What does 'si vis pacem para bellum' mean? I can pick out
 most of the words but I can't turn it into a sentance.

 'e tenebrae lux'
 "From the darkeness cometh light" 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           translation ... . (5 Replies). bodycount[]. 3/9/2002 10:24 (3/10/2002 4:39) 
 >> What does 'si vis pacem para bellum' mean? I can pick out most of the words but I can't
 turn it into a sentance.

 greetings battle-brother,

 "if you want peace prepare for war" - i found it extremely fitting with the game general theme
 *evil grin*

 >> 'e tenebrae lux'
 >> "From the darkeness cometh light"

 having a choice between "obscuritas", "tenebrae" and "caligo" - all meaning darkness, i chose
 to use caligo - the term having stronger denotation than the previous two, and being strangely
 similar to caliban at the same time.

 hail the "ordo angelorum caliginis"

 bodycount 
 si vis pacem para bellum

 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               RE: translation ... . (4 Replies). irskin[]. 3/9/2002 10:34 (3/10/2002 4:39) 
 Very true. I pulled the quote straight off the chapter banner. Its probably my favourite latin (or
 high gothic ;) quote, in general.

 One of these days I'm going to get around to translating (or more likely getting someone else
 to translate) the entire "...never forgive, never forget" quote into latin.

 A final random point (and again off track). A great place to get names for DA
 characters/squads etc. are the names of the 'Angels' from the anime series Neon Genesis
 Evangelion. Just thought I'd share.

 Good hunting all!

 Irskin
 'e tenebrae lux' 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                   on names sources ... . (3 Replies). bodycount[]. 3/9/2002 10:50 (3/10/2002 4:39) 
 >> A final random point (and again off track). A great place to get names for DA
 characters/squads etc. are the names of the 'Angels' from the anime series Neon Genesis
 Evangelion. Just thought I'd share.

 my favourite is "A dictionary of angels. Including the fallen angels" by gustav davidson,
 originally pubslished in 1967. since i use a polish translation i cannot give you reference on
 english publisher. it's a great read, covers hundreads of angels, complete with fluff that may be
 incorporated into the game and has this great title "including the fallen angels" LOL !
 the guy must have played 40k before the game came into being ... ; )))

 good hunting,

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                       how many of you ... . (2 Replies). bodycount[]. 3/9/2002 12:46 (3/10/2002 4:39) 
 just out of curiousity, how many of you battle-brothers did actually play the battle at koth
 ridge scenario?

 good hunting,

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                           I think I've seen that book... . (1 Replies). irskin[]. 3/9/2002 20:15 (3/10/2002 4:39) 
 I think I found that (or one very similar) in our public library. Unfortunately it was 'reference
 only' so I couldn't take it out, and I didn't have time to do more than skim it. Now that I'm
 thinking of it, I'll probably go try and find it at a used bookstore somewhere. 

 As to the other (?), I haven't gotten around to organizing the koth ridge fight. As a matter of
 fact I've never actually fought orks with my army. My most common opponent plays
 ultramarines, and no warbosses have been around on the odd time when i can pop out for a
 pickup game. If you've played, how'd it go? Lets hear the dirt! 

 'e tenebrae lux' 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                               that elusive koth ridge ... . (0 Replies). bodycount[]. 3/10/2002 4:39 (3/10/2002 4:39) 
 greetings battle-brother,

 >> I think I found that (or one very similar) in our public library. I'll probably go try and find it
 at a used bookstore somewhere. 

 please do, you won't be disappointed.

 >> I haven't gotten around to organizing the koth ridge fight. As a matter of fact I've never
 actually fought orks with my army. My most common opponent plays ultramarines, and no
 warbosses have been around on the odd time when i can pop out for a pickup game. If you've
 played, how'd it go? Lets hear the dirt! 

 neither did i. that's way i posted this question. it seems that very few of us actually got to play
 it. but to answer you in part, i found a site with a koth ridge battle report. come and see and
 post your opinion on how the DA performed:
 http://www.batreps.com/014.htm

 oh, and don't lose faith in our thread ... ; )

 good hunting,

 bodycount,
 si vis pacem para bellum 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       I'll probably be killed byyou for saying this but....are Dark Angels good?? . (2 Replies). Bologs[].
 3/9/2002 12:53 (3/9/2002 14:05) 
 I want to collect a 40k army and are stuck between Chaos and DA.

 Please tell me what is good about them AND WHAT IS BAD ABOUT THEM

 Thanks

 Bologs
 Chaos or DA? Chaos or DA?

 P.S. Also can you give me some info on the FALLEN?? 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           a bit, i guess : ))) . (1 Replies). bodycount[]. 3/9/2002 13:39 (3/9/2002 14:05) 
 greetings battle-brother,

 do not worry, we only kill you tomorrow after you repent first ; )))

 >> I want to collect a 40k army and are stuck between Chaos and DA. Please tell me what is
 good about them AND WHAT IS BAD ABOUT THEM

 anyways, this choice will be basically a choice betwen the astartes legion and their chaotic
 counterparts with all the pros and cons of both. you will notice that DA are very similar to
 vanilla marines, but their special rules, units and wargear IMHO make them a better force. an
 improvement that is reflected in the point cost though. so first off, decide what appeals to you
 more? both fluff- and tplaying style-wise. as a rule of thumb, the chaos forces will be less
 shooty and tend to get out of control a litle (see chaos dreadnought for a highlight example).
 IMHO chaos marines will generally require advance type tactics and will have less weapons
 or squad conigs and do NOT benefit from the "and they shall know no fear" rule. adeptus
 astartes on the other hand are truly an elite force that is capable of performing effetively in
 almost any role you envisage for them (as long as you put some crafty tactics behind them ;
 ))).

 as for the good and bad about the DA ... well read the thread for once : ))). but to highlight
 these points for you i'd say:

 good things =
 - deathwing, IMHO the ultimate terminators and the most elite formation in the game,
 - ravenwing, althoug i still haven't come to grips with the bikes i'm a sold on RW land
 speeders,
 - plasma cannon can be included in the tac squad, which means you have more options to
 configure your tacs and devs,
 - great standards to be used in games of 2000 points +,
 - sword of secrets, the ultimate power weapon (str. 6),
 - command squad is formed by tactical marines rather than veteran bodyguard - IMHO a
 great asset,
 - librarians can select smite or weaken resolve,
 - weaken resolve : ))),
 - ICs get terminator armor for 10 pts. only,
 - you can field all deathwing or all ravenwing armies,
 - great fluff and ezekiel model - IMHO the best in SM range (now, that i've said it for the third
 time on this thread it probably sounds like advertising ; ).

 bad things = 
 - lack of specialized HtH units (also, none of DA units has access to "invisible" power
 weapons / fists),
 - a DA force will usualy be a little more expensive point-wise than an average vanilla marines
 force,
 - can't take non-human or imperail heroes allies.

 funny, but i can't think of anything else that would be a downside to DA : )))

 and here are a couple of things that are special features of DA - they are mostly seen as
 advantages, but some may call them disadvantageous as well:

 - ICs, all come with an integrated terminator honorus (which is reflected in their cost (good or
 bad - up to you, i like it the way it is ...),
 - all deathwing members (ICs, termnators and optionally vet sargeants at +5 points) are
 stubborn, making the units they are with stubborn as well. as long as vet sarge is optionally
 stubborn (so mine usually aren't) it's IMHO an asset as well,
 - intractable rule - again, IMHO an asset.

 that's prety much it. have a look at the thread for details.

 >> P.S. Also can you give me some info on the FALLEN??

 do you realize how well kept and dangerous this knowledge is? once you beome a member of
 the inner circle you'll get to know. so ome back for info once you've chosen the right army to
 play ... damn, i gotta quit working in the marketing field : )))

 good hunting,

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               Zeke for PM! :) . (0 Replies). littlepurplemonkey[]. 3/9/2002 14:05 (3/9/2002 14:05) 
 >> - great fluff and ezekiel model - IMHO the best in SM range (now, that i've said it for the
 third time on this thread it probably sounds like advertising ; ).

 ++ LOL. You're right though, the zeke mini is a great model - since I've bought mine a chaos
 playing friend of mine has actually asked on more than one occasion if he can paint it for me!

 In regards to DA weaknesses, it's true that they have no real HTH unit, and aren't optimized
 for this role, but a DW squad correctly configured can still be a nasty, albeit expensive close
 combat force, not to mention the GM with Sword of Secrets - a potential 6 attacks (when
 charging) at strength 6, Initiative 5, ignoring armour :). If you want a really HTH heavy army
 then I suppose chaos would be for you, but otherwise DA as I said can certainly hold their
 own in HTH, they are just better at shooting, 'tis all. But Bodycount certainly did a good job
 of explaining it all for you.
 

 Littlepurplemonkey
 ------------------
 inter arma silent leges 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       ...I think it's finally just about dead... (NT) . (2 Replies). irskin[]. 3/9/2002 23:14 (3/12/2002 15:33) 
 No Text 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           not dead yet! . (1 Replies). danimalicious[]. 3/12/2002 2:11 (3/12/2002 15:33) 
 From page 16...

 well, I just thought of something. It's probably too cheesy to use in most cases, but hey, it's an
 idea that might be fun. Let's say you're playing a large game, say 4,000 points. And for kicks,
 you decide to field Azrael. Being the Master of all things Dark Angels, he can take a
 Command Squad of any type he wishes. Let's give him a Deathwing Command Squad.

 There could be a problem here, though, as the DA update said that only Deathwing Armies
 could take a Deathwing Command Squad. And yet, the entry for Azreal says he can take any
 type he wants. Which takes precedence? Or, if we're going to use Azrael with a Deathwing
 CS, do we need to make the rest of the army a Deathwing army? but I digress, my idea
 continues - 

 Upgrade at least one Deathwing Command Squad member to a techmarine and give him a
 signum. Then, give him one of the two heavy weapons allowed to a Deathwing Squad - the
 Cyclone is what I have in mind. Then, have him join up a Devastator Squad, and there you go,
 an extra Missle Launcher. He could jsut as easily join another Deathwing Squad, if you're only
 using Deathwing models, but he'd get more use out of the Signum with a Dev squad. Well,
 there you do. Probably not worth pursuing, but the idea just came to me... 

 and it couldn't hurt to put this bad boy back on page 1, where it belongs! ^_^ 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               hard to kill, are we : ))) . (0 Replies). bodycount[]. 3/12/2002 15:33 (3/12/2002 15:33) 
 >> From page 16...

 good job brother : )))

 >> There could be a problem here, though, as the DA update said that only Deathwing
 Armies could take a Deathwing Command Squad. And yet, the entry for Azreal says he can
 take any type he wants. Which takes precedence? Or, if we're going to use Azrael with a
 Deathwing CS, do we need to make the rest of the army a Deathwing army? but I digress, my
 idea continues - 

 the DA update did say that DW cmd dquads can be fielded only in DW armies but since it
 didn't change anything in azrael entry i'd say his rules take precedence (he's a special character
 after all).

 >> Upgrade at least one Deathwing Command Squad member to a techmarine and give him a
 signum. Then, give him one of the two heavy weapons allowed to a Deathwing Squad - the
 Cyclone is what I have in mind. Then, have him join up a Devastator Squad, and there you go,
 an extra Missle Launcher. He could jsut as easily join another Deathwing Squad, if you're only
 using Deathwing models, but he'd get more use out of the Signum with a Dev squad. Well,
 there you do. Probably not worth pursuing, but the idea just came to me... 

 i hear you ... and the winner in our annual "the most cunning commander" conest is ... : )))
 congrats on creativity. i never thought it's possible to upgrade a special weapon trooper. say,
 could you do that with a tactical marine in a command squad that has a ML? have him
 upgraded to a techmarine?

 >> and it couldn't hurt to put this bad boy back on page 1, where it belongs! ^_^

 absolutely : )

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       Question about Lion Helm . (1 Replies). Glorfindel_888[]. 3/12/2002 12:19 (3/12/2002 15:44) 
 I had a question to ask all of you. The Lion Helm states that it gives any model within 3" a 4+
 invulnerable save from shooting. Does this mean that if you sit a character in the middle of a
 squad do ALL models in the squad get a 4+ save vs shooting? Also can you use this and an
 Iron Halo the same character?
 

 If so I might start using it more. Awsome for getting an assualt squad into butt kicking range of
 Tau. MMMMMmmmmm Killing Tau in HtH.
 

 -Glorfindel_888 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           lion king : ))) . (0 Replies). bodycount[]. 3/12/2002 15:44 (3/12/2002 15:44) 
 >> I had a question to ask all of you. The Lion Helm states that it gives any model within 3" a
 4+ invulnerable save from shooting. Does this mean that if you sit a character in the middle of
 a squad do ALL models in the squad get a 4+ save vs shooting? Also can you use this and an
 Iron Halo the same character?

 yes. all models within 3" of the helmet bearer benefit form its effect. and you probably can
 combine the two items, as nowhere does it say otherwise. however you would then have to
 elect which save are you using, as you can have only one saving throw per turn.

 >> If so I might start using it more. Awsome for getting an assualt squad into butt kicking
 range of Tau. MMMMMmmmmm Killing Tau in HtH.

 : )))

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum

 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       A second Question . (4 Replies). Glorfindel_888[]. 3/12/2002 14:56 (3/15/2002 5:58) 
 Can you give the Lion Helm to a Grandmaster in Terminator Armour? I haven't seen any
 restrictions as it is carried by a little pyscic guy. If this is the case, that is even better as you will
 be able to Deepstrike near some Tau and then have a nice 4+ save againast all the heavy
 weapons you can be sure will be leveled agaisnt them. 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           *all smiles* . (3 Replies). bodycount[]. 3/12/2002 15:56 (3/15/2002 5:58) 
 >> Can you give the Lion Helm to a Grandmaster in Terminator Armour? I haven't seen any
 restrictions as it is carried by a little pyscic guy. If this is the case, that is even better as you will
 be able to Deepstrike near some Tau and then have a nice 4+ save againast all the heavy
 weapons you can be sure will be leveled agaisnt them.

 well, again i'd say yes - it is not marked with an * as an item that cannot be taken by
 terminators. and besides the model does not phisically wear the helmet - the watcher carries it
 (BTW i love those little javas-wanna-bes gits : ))).

 damn. this is some crafty thinking on your part. sheesh! good we are on the same side : )))

 deep strike, 4+ inv. save. 2 assault cannons and a bunch of storm bolters open up. next turn
 you do the same and charge. glorfindel - you're the man : )))

 ok everyone - can this be done? let me hear you.

 bodycount vs. watcher in the dark
 si vis pacem para bellum 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               RE: *all smiles* . (2 Replies). Glorfindel_888[]. 3/12/2002 18:04 (3/15/2002 5:58) 
 Going to try this this Friday. I'll post back saying how well it worked. Hehe I can just hear the
 screams of CHEESE alradey =)
 

 -Grandmaster Glorfindel_888 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                   see you on friday . (0 Replies). bodycount[]. 3/12/2002 20:53 (3/12/2002 20:53) 
 >> Going to try this this Friday. I'll post back saying how well it worked. Hehe I can just hear
 the screams of CHEESE alradey =)

 so we need to bump this thread up until friday so you can find it : ))) it's gonna be fun.

 good hunting,

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

                   hey glorfindel, you out there? anybody else? . (0 Replies). bodycount[]. 3/15/2002 5:58
 (3/15/2002 5:58) 
 >> Going to try this this Friday. I'll post back saying how well it worked. Hehe I can just hear
 the screams of CHEESE alradey =)

 hey glorfindel,

 waiting for that post - let us know how it went ...
 maybe in a new thread - up to you. anyways, post the results.

 if any other of our DA contributors or new readers sees it - i'm still wondering how many of
 you did play the battle of koth ridge scenario, and how many of you advance their attack
 bikes (multimeltas) hidden behind rhinos in a mobile assault.

 happy gaming,

 bodycount
 si vis pacem parabellum 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       Still alive (barely) . (1 Replies). littlepurplemonkey[]. 3/15/2002 11:19 (3/15/2002 11:36) 
 Hi there bodycount. I'm still alive (and looking forward to Glorfindel's BR). Don't know where
 everyone else is though. Despite my frenzied posting on this board and some SoB threads on
 the dev forum (I've decided to take them as my second army), I haven't actually played a
 game in a while due to lack of time, depression and imminenet GCSES. I'm probably going to
 play a four player battle this Sunday though (DA and Eldar(Or guard, the guy hasnt decided
 which to use yet) vs. Tyranids and Chaos) - not exactly an orthodox set of alliances I know,
 but it promises to be interesting. If anything particularly interesting occurs I might just post it
 here. Hopefully I can put what I've learnt from this thread to good use this weekend :)
 I was thinking of trying out the Crusader with termies etc., though with only 1500pts of DA
 involved I'm not too sure if that's a good idea :/ Any thoughts on righteously kicking some
 Chaos and Tyranid butt? 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           RE: Still alive (barely) . (0 Replies). danimalicious[]. 3/15/2002 11:36 (3/15/2002 11:36) 
 Well agaisnt those foes, it might be well worth the chance to advance some attack bikes
 behind Rhino's. Not that you really want to get into HTH w/ Tyranids any faster - as they'll
 come to you fast enough - but the multi-meltas could be very useful against big bugs and
 chaos. You don't happen to know what sort of Army Chaos will be playing?

 Try fielding the Ravenwing Grandmaster. If you're not going to allow special characters, then
 field an all-Ravenwing army. ^_^ 

 And try for the all Plasma Cannon dev squad, with a techmarine there for good measure.
 

 And in regards to using a techmarine in other devious ways, well, I don't see why not (here's a
 good idea agaisnt CSM, btw - add an extra missle launcher to any squad). I mean, set up a
 command squad, with either a tactical or deathwing squad, and arm them according the army
 list entry. And then upgrade the marines to a techmarine or whateer as you see fit, according
 to teh command squad army list entry. If you're playing WYSIWYG, it could get tricky - a
 dev. model with a servo arm backpack may not cut it in some people's eyes. but hell, why
 not? Let's jsut wait for the, Dark Angels are cheesy threads now... ^_^ 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       Still here. WOO 200th post in this thread! . (2 Replies). Glorfindel_888[]. 3/15/2002 13:59 (3/16/2002
 14:06) 
 200 messages! WHO-AH! I'm here. Post later tonight(sometime after 9PM PST) to let you
 know how it went. Actually while I am here, if I put a Grandmaster in Terminator armour in a
 standard Dark Angels army can I buy the terminators I want to put him with as his command
 squad? If not I'll just have him join the squad.
 

 -Grandmaster Glorfindel_888(hoping to Deepstrike against Tau) 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           ah, there you are ... . (1 Replies). bodycount[]. 3/15/2002 18:08 (3/16/2002 14:06) 
 greetings everyone,

 >> if I put a Grandmaster in Terminator armour in a standard Dark Angels army can I buy the
 terminators I want to put him with as his command squad? If not I'll just have him join the
 squad.

 sorry but no. the DA update in WD limited the DW command squad to all-deathwing armies
 only.

 good luck with your battle,

 bodycount
 si vis pacem para bellum

 PS. guys, it's official we just went over 200 : ))) 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

               RE: ah, there you are ... . (0 Replies). Glorfindel_888[]. 3/16/2002 14:06 (3/16/2002 14:06) 
 I figured as much. Thanks for confirming it for me. Well my Lion Helm didn't work. Not for
 lack of trying, just didn't get to play a mission I could deepstrike in =(

 In fact they didn't reach the BT army I was fighting until the last turn =( (damn I hate it when
 they start in reserve and have to foot slog it across the board). On the plus side of things they
 did make a mess of the BT when they did reach them =)

 One other thing I learned is that scouts are AWSOME against Orks in HtH. 10 scouts and 9
 Marines with a chaplin killed at least 2 time thier number in HtH, and when the orks have
 Choppas the extra armour won't make a difference. Although the scouts broke and ran
 twice(must buy a vet sargent next time), they rallied and charge back in twice =)
 

 -Grandmaster Glorfindel_888
 
 

 >> greetings everyone,
 >> 
 >> >> if I put a Grandmaster in Terminator armour in a standard Dark Angels army can I buy
 the terminators I want to put him with as his command squad? If not I'll just have him join the
 squad.
 >> 
 >> sorry but no. the DA update in WD limited the DW command squad to all-deathwing
 armies only.
 >> 
 >> good luck with your battle,
 >> 
 >> bodycount
 >> si vis pacem para bellum
 >> 
 >> PS. guys, it's official we just went over 200 : ))) 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       littlepurplemonkey does a dance.... . (1 Replies). littlepurplemonkey[]. 3/17/2002 17:09 (3/17/2002
 17:46) 
 and then goes off and flies in the sky!
 Well I had to think of something to bump this post.....

 I had a fun battle today between DA/Eldar and Chaos/Nids
 I found that despite its points cost a crusader packed full of termies and a GM can be very
 nice indeed. They jumped out and took down a tyrant plus guard then marched through a hail
 of fire to take down some warriors and then onwards through yet more lascannons, meltaguns
 etc. towards some nurgle termies, (by which time only my GM avec le plasma pistol of
 precipitation and chainsword of castration was alive) My crusader got immobilised but still
 managed to put down a withering hail of fire with the aid of the little purple monkey sitting on
 top (yes reallly - he replaces the multimeltagunner), and besides it was far better off than my
 opponents landraider which went to the lucky first shot of our first turn to my tac lascannon - i
 rolled a 6 then a 6 then a 5 :) and got one nurgle termie into the package. I also find that the
 whole advance the A bike behind a rhino thing can work equally well when the rhino is a
 crusader, anyway im outta time now, i may post tomorre - cya all, and dont let this post die! 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

           WHAT ?! : ))) LPM - i love you 'bro ... . (0 Replies). bodycount[]. 3/17/2002 17:46 (3/17/2002 17:46) 
 >> and then goes off and flies in the sky!

 ah, THE dance, i hear you : )))

 >> my GM avec le plasma pistol of precipitation

 LOL : )))

 >> My crusader got immobilised but still managed to put down a withering hail of fire with the
 aid of the little purple monkey sitting on top (yes reallly - he replaces the multimeltagunner)

 man, that must have been some good stuff (420 in full effect ; ), and finally an explanation of
 your awsome, albeit unorthodox, nick : )))

 >> I also find that the whole advance the A bike behind a rhino thing can work equally well
 when the rhino is a crusader, anyway im outta time now, i may post tomorre - cya all, and
 dont let this post die!

 never, till our dying breath, or typing death, or whatever ... "can work equally well when the
 rhino is a crusader" - like that ; )

 i good you bid evening, good sir ; )))

 bodycount
 si vis pac ... you have WHAT acting as a melta gunner on that crusader ?!!

 : ))) 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       Special characters revisited. . (0 Replies). littlepurplemonkey[]. 3/18/2002 11:21 (3/18/2002 11:21) 
 For those of you still out there; some of my friends and I are going to have a mini
 campaign/tourney/league thingy and we are allowing 1 special character (2000pt games). I
 was just wondering if and who I should take. I have the minis for Zeke, Asmodai and
 Naaman. 

 I like the idea of Zeke, plus the cool mini and have found him useful on the few occasions I
 have used him in the past (Knowing where those zoanthropes or that landraider or wraithlord
 are going to deploy can be mighty useful sometimes), however he has so far had a 0% survival
 rate, though I have managed to avoid bookdeath albeit barely. 

 Asmodai is just class and very points effective, but probably not as powerful as say Zeke.
 Probably my main apprehension with these two is that I would end up putting them in the
 crusader with GM plus termies and that equals way too much power at a point! I don't have
 any rhinos yet and most of my tac squads perform a shooty role especially as my main
 opponents (e.g chaos, nids) tend to come towards me. 

 Naaman on the other hand is obviously nowhere near as devestating as those two in HTH (in
 theory), but I have had a couple of great experiences with him and again I like the mini.
 Naaman for me has been my lucky charm - As far as I remember all my victories had
 Naaman on the field, even if just pretending to be a normal sarge, and all my defeats occurred
 when I didn't use him (there may have been like 1 victory without him and possibly 1 defeat
 with him). The first time I used him my opponent made a blunder and Naaman plus about 7
 scouts ended up miraculously holding up 30 termegants, a carnie and tyrant guard for mkost
 of the game (my opponent underestimated him and wanted to keep his carny from being shot
 so he charged Naaman and co. but never actually got close enough to hit him with those 30
 termegants in the way!) And the next battle he somehow took the last wound of an avatar
 bringing him crashing down!This is not my normal level luck so it really was quite astounding.

 Any helpful advice on which (if any) special character I should consider taking would be
 appreciated.

 thanks in advance. 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation 
 
 

       Here goes mine... Too cheesy??? . (0 Replies). Melkaia[]. 3/18/2002 12:08 (3/18/2002 12:08) 
 

 1 Grand Master (HQ) @ 135 Pts
 Storm Bolter
 Terminator Armour [10]
 Sword of Secrets [40]

 4 Deathwing Terminators (Elites) @ 275 Pts
 2 Lightning Claws (x2); Assault C. & Power Fist (x2)

 1 Sergeant @ [47] Pts
 Power Weapon (x2); Storm Bolter
 #Terminator Armour [0]

 1 Dreadnought (Elites) @ 125 Pts
 Front Armour: 12; Side Armour: 12; Rear Armour: 10; Dread. CC Weapon;
 Storm Bolter; Twin Lascannon

 6 Tactical Squad (Troops) @ 126 Pts
 Bolter (x4); Plasma Cannon (x1); Plasma Gun (x1)

 1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
 Bolter

 6 Tactical Squad (Troops) @ 126 Pts
 Bolter (x4); Plasma Cannon (x1); Plasma Gun (x1)

 1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
 Bolter

 6 Tactical Squad (Troops) @ 126 Pts
 Bolter (x4); Plasma Cannon (x1); Plasma Gun (x1)

 1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
 Bolter

 6 Devastator Squad (Heavy Support) @ 185 Pts
 Bolter (x2); Missile Launcher (x4)

 1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
 Bolter

 1 Vindicator Assault Tank (Heavy Support) @ 120 Pts
 Storm Bolter; Demolisher Cannon

 1 Predator 'Annihilator' (Heavy Support) @ 145 Pts
 2 Sponson Lascannon; Turret Linked Lascannons

 1 Ravenwing Land Speeder (Fast Attack) @ 55 Pts
 Heavy Bolter (x1)

 1 Ravenwing Land Speeder (Fast Attack) @ 80 Pts
 Assault Cannon (x1); Heavy Bolter (x1)

 Models in Army: 39
 

 Total Army Cost: 1498 
 Reply 
 Back To Thread Navigation